" It takes a pry bar, a hammer and a skilled workman."

Actually it takes a Japanese pull saw slid between the cabinets and granite to cut all the adhesive it can reach. Then it takes tapping shims in consistently to gradually raise the top and break it free from the adhesive that couldn't be cut. Drive two scrapers in and a pry bar between them. Slow and steady, but you still may break the stone.

Echoing the sentiment from another post: I could just cry...may have just hit my breaking point with this -- one step forward, three back.

The owner wasn't on hand to supervise...crew of two showed up. One guy fit the piece (on the right), glued into place w/ two shims, and filled the seam with what appeared to be a lightish epoxy. (He kept referring to it as epoxy glue...language/communication is always an issue.) His partner worked to fill the other (window) seam with presumably epoxy. I made it clear (or as clear as I could) that only epoxy was to be used - no caulk.

As they were packing up, DH inspected the seam and pointed out that second guy had used a bright white epoxy in the window seam, and it was a bad color match. Additionally, there were patches of shiny/glossy (leftover epoxy? not sure) left on the stone. Guys pulled their toolbox back off the truck and into the house...worked on it more -- to the point where the first guy decided to pull off the first piece (to the right) that he'd been working on. I guess when DH pointed out the glaring white used on the window piece, this guy decided he could also do better on the right-side piece (good sign, I thought).

They worked another 10-15 minutes, a couple of times telling me they were in between jobs locally, and needed to rush back (!) to the other job. As they were headed out the door, I noticed only one shim was in place. Guy said the red/second one had slipped, but "that's okay." Huh? OK...ok. And the kitchen smelled vinegar-y. Hmmm.

I don't know what they filled the second-filler seam with, but it sure looks like clear silicone! In the photos, the surface is definitely shiny/translucent, just like silicone. And to the left, you can see what appears to be excess silicone squirting out:

When they were doing attempt #2, I smelled acetone: the guy was wiping down the window area with acetone presumably to remove the too-white epoxy, and start over. Well, that pretty much screwed up and partially stripped the sealer that was on there!:

And, now, the 6' seam along the window (sorry for the crud -- I tried to crop as closely as possible) -- shiny parts, white parts, unfilled parts.

Left to right:

Folks, what do I do?

OK, that was a rhetorical question. I know what I need to do...I'm just so frustrated right now, and just about cannot bear the thought of having the kitchen torn up again. I just moved most of the items back in. I need to sit down with the owner and dad (original owner who's got one foot in retirement, I believe), and ask for a do-over.

If these guys had done a good job, I was ready to forgive the fact that I'd have three seams in my countertop, and in the part of the kitchen where I spend the most time; and in the part of the kitchen that's most visible (near windows).

SMH in utter disbelief. My neck is in a knot...UGH!

You need a refund. Then a new fabricator. I wouldn't let these people come near your kitchen again. Bottom line is they did not template correctly. So sorry your having so much trouble, just isn't right. Do you have a general contractor involved? and if you paid for enough stone for less seams, then you should have less seams, period. Hoping the best for you...

Ugh, I'm so sorry. I know what you mean about just wanting it to be over and have your house back, as we're at the same point in the remodel and also pondering replacement of part of the counter that the installer over-polished to remove glue (it's Neolith and they smoothed the matte surface that, according to the manufacturer, can't be restored). Collateral damage vs living with a defect is a hard call. Your issues, however, are so severe (I'm simultaneously, angry, horrified, and sympathy-filled not only for the initial problems but also for the "solution" that made it worse) that I think you're right in looking for a do-over. I hope the owners recognize the problems and aren't stingy about a full refund, and that you find someone of our Mr. Corlett's skill to make things right.

Make sure you take lots of pictures and if they refuse to refund your money let them know you'll see them in small claims court. Trust me, you'll win if you need to go that route.

As others said, you need a refund and new fabricators. Not these hacks.

I'm so sorry you're going through this mess but that job is about as amateur as I've seen.

Thanks, everyone.

ldecor54 -- We are the GC. And lest anyone jump to "I told you so" conclusions/statements, we'd worked with two separate GCs/companies (insurance company vendors...I know, I know). when this all started as a water damage claim in August 2014. I've taken enough photos in the past two years to fill an entire hard drive. Insurance settled with us after it was clear their guys couldn't cut it (and were costing the company more money just to come back to fix). We did research and went with a local kitchen design firm that did it all (and sold the semi-custom cabs that received thumbs-ups from a couple of veteran KDs here). For counters, the dealer told me to pick from the standard swatches, and that if I wanted to see the actual slabs, he'd have to bring in an outside designer ("which means more money"). He said he was fine with providing cabinets only if we wanted to go off on our own to secure fabricator + stone. The current fabs are third-generation in the area and are MIA accredited. I thought at the very least, they're aware of minimum industry standards.

Perhaps there's a difference between accreditation and membership? Dunno. This is not rocket science, right? And we have neither a huge nor complicated kitchen.

Were we to move on to someone else, how on earth do we begin the search when we thought we did due diligence with this one? During the initial visits, all the right things were said (and NOT in sheer salesmanship fashion). They've been terrific and patient about helping us pick out just the right stone, not steering us only to their pet stone yards, etc. What few friends have had their counters redone (community is ~ 25-30 years old) aren't thrilled with their work to the point where they'd recommend their crew, "but the price was reasonable".

And if we ask for a refund, what, they take their stone with them? And wouldn't we be taking an even bigger risk that the cabinets get damaged? BTW, not shown in this photos, but the sink's already in place. I find it hard to believe the sink wouldn't be all bent out of shape during the removal process. How does this work?

(ledecor -- Re: seams, especially not extra seams resulting from the filler pieces that were glued in).

I called MIA twice just to get their advice, and they pretty much don't want to touch this. All they did was take down my company's name and refer me to other MIA members for advice. I've placed a call to one MIA member a few hours from here, and judging by the hours passing, they don't want to touch it, either. I get it. I just wanted to hear from folks in the trade to let me know what would be a reasonable ask from me/us at this point.

Gosh, AvatarWalt -- They messed up your Neolith? Wow. Collateral damage is such a gray area, eh? Because we're not gabillionaires and happen to like working with our hands, DH and I have DIYed a ton of house projects in the years we've lived here. What we couldn't figure out, we researched. Maybe it's because we're more conscientious because it's our house, but we prepped hard to (successfully) avoid collateral damage -- is it that difficult?

ETA: The boiling frog story sums it up. Ribbet.

When we added granite to the last house, the stove door bumped it every time you went to close the stove door. Way too tight and one of the backsplash borders of granite was broken above the electrical switch, which they "repaired", and a few other things that made me go "what?". I did not care because we were selling it.. heh.. but had it been a house we were going to keep, I would have made them fix it.

Russ -- This is our one and only. It's been and will be home for us for the long haul. :)

Ugh, I am so sorry, javi! But I'm also glad that you've decided to go ahead and ask for a refund. I think you'd have regretted those filler pieces for a lifetime. You will not be frog soup :)

You have been so nice and patient, to the extreme! Do you think it might be time to be, um, not so nice? ;-)

I suggest you get very pointed with the owner. Maybe say something like, "Sorry Jack (Let's name him Jack because it rhymes with HACK), I have been more then reasonable here. Like beyond extreme."

(At this point stop and take some loud fast breaths through your nose and that look in your eyes like you are about to snap).

"I allowed you to try and fix your horrible gaps, unfortunately you have failed miserably. Sorry, but it looks like crap! It is over now. I'm done dealing with this. My counters are ruined and I want a refund. PERIOD. I would appreciate a refund check for xxxx amount in my hand, like today, would be nice."

If he grumbles, I have heard others use this line, "Would you like my counters used as an example of the quality of workmanship you produce?"

If he wants the old stone back,

"Well that would be fine, if you were going to be the one to remove it. Unfortunately, I cannot trust you not to ruin my cabinets or sink ripping out this mess. Getting your botched stone back is not reasonable. I don't know how long it will even take me to find new slabs I love like these. I'm sick to my stomach because these were my dream counters. I won't settle until I find ones that I love just as much or more. It could take months. Plus, now I need to find a new fabricator who is competent enough to remove these tops and reinstall the new one at the same time. Again, this will take time, since this time I am not settling for inferior workmanship. I will need to do research of reviews and see examples of the fabricator's work. I am also sure you understand that there is no way I can guarentee this stone won't be broken to smithereens during the uninstall right? So, I think getting your broken stone back is a not a reasonable option for you."

Adding if necessary, "Are you going to reimburse me the cost to have someone else to rip out your mess? No? Ok, well then why don't you just give me back my money and let's be done here, shall we?"

If he refuses, "Well, then my next stop is at my lawyers office. And I will be filing a complaint with photos to the licensing board (or whatever licensing agency in your area).

The refund should be for Installation and the cost of the slabs. No less.

I have a tile story that was very similar, so this brought back memories of that nightmare. It was a bit of a fight with the owner of the tile shop and the tile installer who worked for them, but I ended up winning. I got a full refund for the installation and the price of all the tile because their own tile inspector said it was a very bad installation. I had planned to rip it all out, but it was going to be such an ordeal that I kept putting it off. We never did end up replacing it. I put some rugs down and it slowly stopped bothering me.

Hope it works out. Be strong!

TY, Errant -- I'll have overnight to set up the meeting. Time for this frog to jump out of the pot already. It feels so blecch to have to do this -- why don't people just do their jobs right already?!

rebunky, oh, rebunky: TY TY TY!!! You had DH and me rolling in the aisles. Upon reading your final paragraph, DH turned to me and asked, "Do we have an assigned inspector?" "Yeah...ME!"

Yes - time to stop being accommodating. Unfortunately, some people think reasonableness is a sign a weakness and will NOT simply just do the right thing - they will push and push and try your patience because they think you will not explode. They are used to people exploding.

Sadly - it's this kind of crap that perpetuates the tense dealings in these situations.

Hardball. Do it.

Thanks, jannicone. Every supportive message like yours stiffens my spine just a little bit more. This really threw me for a loop because I just didn't see it coming with this particular company. But, it has indeed been up to me to bring to light all the errors, and there have been a few doozies.

GW oughta start a national volunteer network of advocates who can swoop in and take over such negotiations when the frog, I mean, homeowner is too fatigued to do so. You guys would be super. :)

If you lived near me, I'd be happy to come do it for you javiwa. I hate when people are taken advantage of or given inferior quality to what they paid for. I'd definitely let my Nu Yawkha out and they wouldn't know what hit them.

If the job was under $5,000 you can take them to small claims without a lawyer. Your pictures showing the job you have would be more than enough.

And rebunky is right. Under no circumstances let these clowns pull the granite out.

As for finding some quality people, maybe go to some of the higher end kitchen stores, explain what happened to you, and ask them who they use for fabrication.

Oh, cpartist...tempted to pay your airfare out, pop some corn, pull up a chair and watch your Nu Yawkha-ness do its thing! ;) Funny thing (or not!), but the VP of sales for one of the largest stone/tile places swears by this group -- says he's very, very picky about which fabricators he releases his stones to. And this company DOES work on very high end projects (yes, photos to back it all up). Maybe my lil ol' kitchen was a bit too pedestrian....dunno. Thanks for the tip, though.

Go back to that stone supplier with these pictures. Maybe he'll assist you...

Omg! I know you told me it was bad but girl! Holy cow that's a mess. Oh no they must refund your money back and don't let them touch anything! Look I am right over here living in the rv in the driveway I can wheel my Cajun self over there and let them have if you need me too! I have seriously been so worried about something like that happening to us in this flood remodeling. I know nothing about this stuff. I am so sorry you are going through this. I think I would have gone nuclear on them by now. I don't like to be the person that complains about the small stuff but this is not small. Pictures speak very loudly these days especially with the Internet right handy for you to spread the word about their skill level or lack of. I can assure you I will not be using them, so see they already lost a possible customer. Stay strong! I'm trying every day I know it's not always Easy.

I like your idea Javiwa! Let's call them the "GW Swoopers"! Lol!

Oh Javiwa! I'm sorry you have to deal with this. It's not fun.

raven -- You are such a dear. It's reading what you and your family have gone through (and continue to endure) that gives me such perspective as we hit our bumps, albeit large ones. (Received your message -- will reply soon.)

rebunky -- Time to have t-shirts made. ;)

mgmum -- Can you believe it? I thought it was the home stretch after the we resolved sealer issues. Ugh...and the weeks I've already spent planning/picking BS tile.

kirkhall -- That's something I hadn't thought about, and it could be a very good road to go down, EXCEPT the supplier has just recently moved into a space adjacent to the fabricator. (They're in a very industrial area of town, so envision open/wide massive warehouse-type facilities.) By no means am I implying anything odd going on at all. But it'd be very awkward (non-productive?) for me to show up at the supplier's, as any interactions would be in clear view of the fabricator's staff, crew, etc. Still, I'll keep this option in mind as my interactions with the owner were very friendly.

Go back to that stone supplier with these pictures. Maybe he'll assist you...'

This is a GREAT idea. I'd go there first, talk to the owner or manager, and say, this is the fabricator you mentioned was excellent. Ask very sweetly if this is considered a good job. (Make it sound like you're unsure. ) Then when they say no, ask them what they would do in such a situation.

That's something I hadn't thought about, and it could be a very good road to go down, EXCEPT the supplier has just recently moved into a space adjacent to the fabricator. (They're in a very industrial area of town, so envision open/wide massive warehouse-type facilities.) By no means am I implying anything odd going on at all. But it'd be very awkward (non-productive?) for me to show up at the supplier's, as any interactions would be in clear view of the fabricator's staff, crew, etc. Still, I'll keep this option in mind as my interactions with the owner were very friendly.

Even MORE reason to go down and show the supplier! Let the fabricator see you are next door. If they are in collusion, you'll know it when you go down because the supplier will lie through his teeth telling you the job is acceptable. Then you'll know one way or the other.

If the supplier is honest and says no that is not acceptable, you can ask what he suggests you do? And maybe it will put the fear of you know who in the fabricator if he realizes that you've shown the supplier what a P*SS POOR job he's done. (Sorry for the Nu Yawka speak but it makes me mad). Because the last thing the fabricator wants is for one of his suppliers to stop recommending him.

Also remind the fabricator when you do talk to him, that Yelp and GW as well as all the other places you'll be placing your reviews with pictures!

Honestly, at this point, I think you're in the drivers seat. Stop thinking you're not.

Wow...cannot believe so many weeks have gone by. The gory details:

• June 15 a.m.: I text owner D and request an urgent meeting with him and his dad T (whose family business this is), fully detailing my issues with the subpar, beneath-industry-standards work. I ask for RSVP. A couple of hours go by -- nada. I email his office (SOP on my end), and get no reply (SOP on their end). I finally call the office and am told D is on vacation. Within moments of my call, D texts me to say he's on vacation til next week...that's it. I schedule an appt w/ T to come out June 16.
• June 16 noon - T arrives with my folder and a piece of stone moulding in hand. He measured and checked -- even asked me if the cabinets were shifted after the templating. I told him D came out for two separate templatings (just to be sure they got it right), the second after one bank of cabinets shifted 1/2" to the left. T proceeded to provide a couple of cosmetic cover-ups, but I told him no attempts to cover up the gaps would be acceptable: I asked for nothing short of a complete do over. I was to call the office to set up an appointment for both he and his son to stop by the following Tuesday morning.
• June 16 afternoon: I email the office to set up the appointment. No reply. All of my communications are now text and email to serve as paper trails and documentation.
• June 21 a.m.(Tuesday): I call T to confirm they're coming (oftentimes, the appts are set, but I receive no confirmation; the guys just show up). T says D won't actually be back in town until 5 p.m. (so, I assume they'll set up for the next day, right?).
• June 22/Wednesday morning: I hear nothing, so I email to confirm a/the meeting. I'm told D and T haven't met yet, and T is at a funeral all Wednesday. They will meet to discuss Thursday.
• June 23/Thursday 2 p.m. : have heard nothing. I send a formal email stating that if I didn't receive an email back from them before end of business, providing a specific plan for a path forward, I would be seeking legal counsel.
• June 23 4:49 p.m.: I receive a lengthy email stating: 1) D was on vacation and is now very backed up; 2) D and T have been discussing my kitchen at length; 3) D has been at another job site, which is why he couldn't stop by (they basically told me they'd prioritized projects ahead of mine); 4) Bear with them while they figure out what to do. To me, this didn't qualify as a specific plan forward.
• June 24 morning: I email to formally request a full refund of fees paid, along with my rationale for the request. (My blunder: I didn't provide a deadline to reply.)
• June 28: I send a formal request to T and D (separately, by Certified Mail) to refund all fees paid by July 10 (today), or small claims process would begin. (I'm in TX, so small claims is up to $10,000.) I have them almost two weeks since I would be out of town during that time anyway.
• Basically have not heard back from them since June 23. They have all my money, and poof...gone. Small claims is next...am consulting with an attorney in case we go beyond small claims.

I never would have expected this type of result from this company. I've mentioned time and again in my various posts since December that I thought I was (finally) in very good hands with this phase of the kitchen.

----

On a much more amusing note (I need this right now, the levity -- someone needs to do a case study on kitchen renos causing near-clinical depression!), I visited my mom last week. I show up to learn she's having HER kitchen redone -- 1960 build:

Years ago, my dad DIY'ed tile counters and backsplash -- to include (get this) tiling the entire wall behind the fridge! (left pic).

So, naturally, the demo left a bare wall there. It only made sense (!) to go ahead and continue the quartz backsplash ONTO THE ENTIRE FRIDGE WALL! OMG, I about died from laughter. I was joking that rather than stick the fridge back in the space, they oughta run that water line up through the top of the wall and turn it into a zen waterfall-type space.

Here you go:

If any section of counter ever gets damaged, at least my mom has spare parts! :P

These guys did an amazing job -- you'd have to look very hard to find the seams. They demo'ed Thursday, installed Friday, touched up Saturday. It CAN be done in less than 7 months!

I'm so tickled for my mom. My turn next, hopefully.

When you go to court be sure to take lots and lots of pictures of how it looks and then find some pictures here on houzz of counters done correctly before backsplashes went in to show how it should be done. When you go make sure you have a well written out timeline of everything. Write it up and rewrite it until it's as clear as water exactly what happened when.

I wish you the best of luck and thanks for letting us know what these scam artists did.

Now I'd go write a yelp review on them.

Javiwa - yes, your turn next, for sure. I am so sorry you are going through this. Have "we" been through small claims as a GW group? I know someone here will have some words of wisdom. Keep us posted.

Thanks, cpartist. I've not deleted any emails, text messages or calendar scrawls since this all started, and I'll be able to resurrect much of the timeline from my posts (to include the ones the installer asked me to post on the stone fabricators forum). I'll stop short of calling them scam artists for now -- any name calling on my part would just further upset me, and may not be true. But, you feel free! ;) I can't say that I'm the most objective party right now.

romy -- TY for your support, as always.

Hi, kiko -- Houston area.

I was wondering if you were back home. I see you are and are still not getting any positive response from those people. That's just awful. No one should have to go through this kind of difficult process just for a satisfactory job result. I sure hope I don't! I don't think I can handle anything else lol.

You feelfree to vent to me all you need to! My poor husband hears mine lol.

Best of luck to you.

javiwa, try to keep it as simple as you can. Remember kitchen counters are not something most people think about and the judge may have no idea about how any of this is done. Personally, I'd focus on the incorrect template (their negligence), and the non-standard gap that resulted as a result.

1. You paid X to install stone counters.
2. There are industry standards that govern how much of a gap between stone and wall is acceptable, allowable
3. The stone as installed exceeded the allowed/customary gap
4. There was nothing on your end that caused the gap to occur (see: T asking if your cabinets had shifted)
5. Since they also acknowledged the unacceptable gap, you were willing to mitigate (reduce your damage- the refund you are now seeking to buy new stone) by allowing them to try to patch pieces in an attempt to cover the gap.
6. This was good faith because you believed they could install an 'invisible' unseamed patch. *** They could not, so a new counter is now the only remedy.
7. You want your money returned so you can hire a different fabricator. ( Why you don't want a new counter from them might get you into their other bad behavior which is probably unnecessary. The judge/referee is going to realize things are kaput at this point.)

Was there a written contract? If so, it's important in terms of the parties' duties and rights.

Also, be sure you research what happens in Texas small claims cases, allowable exhibits, initial statement, witnesses etc. MO, photos( as opposed to email chains) will be your most helpful exhibits. If you can, give your initial statement, or however they run small claims cases, to someone not familiar with the kitchen counter install process, to make sure it's clear.

I'm hoping someone with knowledge can chime in with what the stone company is going to say so you can anticipate their defense. E.g.***Might they say you agreed to accept whatever patching they did, for example? (The patch emails might be important if they raise that. They are also important if they contain their admissions that the gap is too large, as opposed to, "I'm sorry you think the gap is too large, you crazy, impossible to please customer."

Depending on this company, they may bring an attorney, even though it's small claims.

Hey there, Raven! Had I known you were going to crank up the heat while I was away, I never would have left! ;) Thanks for being the cyber-pillow that I scream into.

barncatz - I cannot thank you enough for the guidance. I'd spent the day trying to 'get at' how detailed (or not!) to be. I figured I could just get a general timeline of events going, and edit from there. The Marble Institutes of American guidelines are a valuable specific resource I'll cite in order to show examples of techniques not executed within acceptable standards, as well as standard business practices not adhered to.

Written contract? No. I received a couple of invoices itemizing material/labor costs and payment history. I signed off on at least one template, but was never given a copy of anything I signed. At the first meeting, I was handed their brochure that assures "100% Customer Satisfaction". Aside from invoices, brochure and business cards that I have, they have a folder full of papers with my name on it. I'm reading they should have provided me with a copy of everything I signed -- they never did. Am I entitled to that?

I've already recapped for a couple of attorney friends what's transpired, laid out similar to your advice above, and they replied right away that I'm on steady ground for a lawsuit.

Thanks again. BTW, I just checked the mailbox today, hoping to give this company the benefit of the doubt: empty.

I'm sorry, I'm not clear, where are you reading they should have given you copies?

One point of taking a template is to insure the stone stays within the acceptable space from the adjacent wall. I'm guessing the template you signed showed a stone meeting the adjacent wall, not that you were signing off on a larger gap?

Their marketing promise is fine but probably not actionable. Doesn't matter. "A reasonable person" would be unsatisfied if their counter exceeded the industry standard. That's what happened here.

My being entitled to a copy of anything I signed may have been a logical leap on my part. MIA best practices detailed in their A Homeowner's Guide to Natural Stone Countertop Installation: "Communicating with Your Contractor -- Documentation. As dictated by standard practices of good business, all communications MUST be documented in writing." Is this not similar to having one's eyes examined, and the resulting prescription belongs to the patient?

Regardless, yes, the templates showed: 1) a single seam ~ 18-19" to the left of the sink, and 2) presumably the stone meeting the adjacent walls -- there was never any discussion at all about the condition of my kitchen (walls, cabinets, etc.) that presented the possibility of a resulting gap after installation. In fact, when I pointed out the longest gap (at the main window) to the owner that same day, his comment was, essentially, "I'm not sure what happened there. Hmmm...I'll need to figure out what we're going to do about that." It was at this point that I asked if he might not remove the tops and reposition, and he said it was too late for that.

The only graphic I have from this company is the slab layout:

I just went through my photo archives and found a couple of shots I took when the paper templates were actually laid and taped onto the stone. It didn't look like a very precise technique, but they assured me this was just for approximate layout -- the exact measurements would be done on the computer.

SOP?

OK, one more thing I noticed. When originally viewing the slab, I noticed this circular plug. I was told it was a filled in bore hole (I think), but not to worry -- it won't end up in the kitchen. See the white circle? Owner even marked it so the layout guys would be sure to avoid this area.

You guessed it: a 1"x1/4" piece made it into my top.

I know this is all first world stuff, but I really just do not enjoy stepping into my kitchen.

javiwa:

You're much more likely to get results by shaming them publicly than by legal means. I promise if you post pictures of templating with paper on the SFA website, other fabricators will howl with laughter. The key to this is sticking to the facts, not getting emotional, and appearing as a completely reasonable customer. No USE OF ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS. It makes you look like a nut and every fabricator has had their share of those.

Always grateful for your advice, Joseph. I'm actually surprised at your recommendation of a public shaming, as that's the sort of route I'd think would be highly frowned upon by fabricators as exactly what a nut-job customer might resort to. I'm sure you lurked the SFA forums as I posted for advice on honing/leathering methods and pads, as well as my search for an effective sealer. And you saw the fabricators' reactions: tell your guy to get off his butt and get onto these forums himself.

Just heard from the attorney, who says (among other things) "they are not sure what the issue was with the sealer..." I'm shocked to hear this -- all my testing, photos and emails weren't enough to convince them that their sealer didn't do an adequate job of sealing?

"...spent considerable time and expense..resealing...with a sealant of your choice at no charge." They're making it sound like they did me a favor to have provided me with a properly sealed surface, at the end of the day. Should I start charging them the time I spent researching, testing and helping seal my own counters? (I'm venting here so I can maintain composure and professionalism when I reply. And, yes, I'm fully aware that every word I post may be viewed by the company -- however, I'm supported by the facts.)

I know the the grittiness of the stone and the seaIant was one of the issues, but as Barncatz recommended, I'd focus on the incorrect template and gaps. Their comments on "the considerable time and expense resealing" may be an attempt to make you look like a client that has unreasonable expectations that cannot be pleased.

romy -- 100% agree...drafting my reply now. TY!

javiwa, ok, so they are using an attorney. You mentioned you have friends who are attorneys? It might be worth letting one of them review the letter and draft or help you draft a reply, or advise whether it should just be ignored. Did the letter propose a resolution?

Here's MO. The sealer might be evidence of their incompetence, their unfamiliarity with your stone, their waste of your time, but in the end, it was resolved. If your counters were wide enough, you'd be done and moving onto your backsplash. So, it's a red herring that will put you on the defensive and create a jumble of facts and counter accusations no third party judge/referee is going to want to sort through. They went to considerable expense resealing. Fine. Solved one problem/breach.

Then the parties moved onto the bigger and remaining breach, the failure to correctly template that has left you with a huge gap. They had one proposed solution. It didn't work. That's why you need a new counter and need your money back so you can go get one.

TY, barncatz. I do have many friends who are attorneys, but didn't want to hit them up for 'free advice' (though they gladly read my summary and said I've got a case, and would refer me to a friend who handled this sort of litigation). I'll be ready to hire someone outright, if it comes to that. And, nope, I didn't waste time hashing through the minor (and now resolved) issues. I focused on the fact that, due solely to their templating/cutting errors, I ended up with a product that did not fit into my kitchen space (within industry tolerances). They offered a % discount (I don't want to disclose any specifics here, in case that's not the right thing to do).

We reiterated our request for a full refund, and either they could remove the stone at their cost (and agree to be liable for any damage incurred to our kitchen in the process), or we would hire someone to remove the tops and coordinate pickup of the stone by current company -- cost would be borne by our current company. And no guarantees that the stone will remain intact, once demo'ed.

Sounds like you are on a path to the resolution you believe is the fair result. Now may I respectfully and humbly offer the opinion that you can go drink lemonade, perhaps while away the days playing Pokemon Go and opinionating (made up word!) on other posters' Kitchens questions; and get back to us when all is concluded, however it is concluded, basking in all of the support you have on this forum?

(Support from posters who will gladly discuss counter overhang depth but who are united in believing a counter should cover the space over your cabinets from the adjacent wall to whatever overhang depth you have anguished about and decided on.) :)

:) Thanks, barncatz.

By way of update: Wow...cannot believe it's been two months since my last post. With ravencajun Zone 8b TX being such a dear to keep tabs on me, I haven't felt like I've disappeared completely. Suffice it to say, I'm learning a lot about the entire small claims process and all the legalese that comes with it. I've bounced back and forth between my local precinct and the precinct responsible for actually serving the defendant.

My advice to anyone going through this process for the first time: do your research (the internet provides abundant information -- read slowly an carefully, and review over and over) and don't ever be too timid to ask, as often as needed, "Please explain what that means." While the precinct clerks who answer the phones intend to be helpful, they often don't realize that phrasing such as "a form blah-blah was filed" and "affidavit for substitute service" are lost upon us laypeople.

For anyone living in Texas: there is no such thing as a general contractor/remodeler license. Our fabricator advertises on their website that they have said license; but when I followed up with the state licensing/regulatory agency to research standards and possibly pursue a complaint, I was told there was no such license. There's a license for everything from athletic trainers to combative sports (no kidding) to electricians to polygraph examiners: no remodelers.

Received a reply from defendant's lawyer yesterday: we're going to court.

I have been meaning to email you to see how it is going. I hate to hear they are going to be jerks and go to court over this. What an ordeal you have been through! Man it sure makes me glad I found Matt at Cypress tile and granite he has been a true pleasure to work with. I definitely can recommend him. I hope you have a winning case. Such a big time hog though to be put through this. Keep me posted!

Howdy. Every time I think about sitting down and providing an update, I get upset all over again...just like every time I walk into my kitchen (many, many times a day), the awful feelings churn up. I don't consider myself to be someone who needs to LOVE her kitchen. But at this point, I have nothing but negative feelings (emotionally and physically, really) every time I lay eyes on my counters. So, consider this as follow-up, more venting...what, closure? Maybe an education for anyone else going through this? I glanced at the date stamp on my initial post: what a way to mark this one-year anniversary. I'll try to stay as focused as possible.

Last autumn, with all the small claims paperwork filed, both parties waited for a mediation date to be set (which likely wouldn't happen til after the first of the year). In Texas, a mediation session is required for small claims cases. In December, I called the precinct to double check and make sure the hearing didn't get pushed forward: I was shocked to hear that the fabricator had filed a countersuit in October! Part of the shock was due to my never having even been notified...very odd business, I thought. Up til then, their attorney emailed and snail-mailed every scrap of formage and documentation.

We've said it and heard it time and again on these forums: give the company an opportunity to 'make it right'. I can't remembered if I covered this here already, but after they honed my tops, I was left with grit all over. We went back and forth, the fabricator not sure what happened...got to a point where he asked me to do internet research, contact his tech rep at MIA, post the problem with the pros at the Stone Fabricators Alliance forum, etc. I was told by this company that, don't worry, at the end of the day, they were going to provide me with smooth (non-gritty) and sealed tops. Several trips back and forth to re-hone on site. They finally switched brushes/heads and 'leathered' on-site (after asking me to provide and put up plastic sheeting to isolate the dust.) The grit resolved, but the leathering was very uneven. Shiny spots were mixed with dull spots; and there were grinder arc marks that they couldn't figure out how to get rid of. I told them it was good enough. The next several weeks were spent helping them figure out the right type of sealer to use. Their go-to didn't work, so again it was on me to find a sealer that worked. OK, so, the counter suit: not only did they fabricate two phony invoices for the hours and trips spent getting rid of the grit AND properly sealing the counters (each time, I stood side-by-side with the owner, helping him with the sealer applications -- sometimes timing, other times helping scrub and rinse with water during the stripping process), they claimed that I was more than 90 days delinquent paying these two invoices...to the tune of ~ $4,000 more (ballpark...can't remember exactly now). PREPOSTEROUS!!!! I knew this countersuit wouldn't hold any water: history would show that I always paid my invoices within 24-72 hours. And they could never prove that I received these two phony invoices: all invoices were emailed to me, and I can guarantee they could never have come up with original emails proving I was invoiced.

During all this time, I sat down with my attorney acquaintance and laid everything out. He reminded me of one very important thing: at least in TX, small claims judgements are not binding. He felt I had a rock solid case not only to prove my case, but also to have the countersuit quickly dismissed. However, even if the judgement went in my favor, there's no guaranteeing I'd collect a dime. Up until the time I stumbled upon the countersuit, I somehow (naively?) had faith in the system, and felt that if I won the case, that would be that. Seeing what low and underhanded lengths this company and their attorney stooped with the countersuit, I started to doubt that they would honor a judgement. My attorney friend says these are the types of companies/cases he takes, and he spends months and years chasing companies just like this.

(Going to stop here and post...back in a sec with the next part.)

Next part: :)

Mediation hearing was Feb. 16. I'm trying to stick to the facts here, but will allow myself a moment: their lawyer was a total a$$....not unexpected. I think he thought this was his Perry Mason moment. (The owner later agreed with me that HIS lawyer was completely overboard during the hearing. And the mediator later remarked that more often than not, it's the lawyers who make these mediation hearings far worse than they need to be -- she said I held my own rather well.)

This was never about the money; it was about my getting a job properly done. So, to the surprise of the mediator and this company, I told them all I wanted was for that large window seam to be as well done as the original seam in my counter. I'd be willing to accept their pieced-together fix as long as it was well done: which is exactly what I would have been satisfied with a year ago, had their crew done what they were supposed to do.

After three more tries, they finally got it to a point where I notice that added piece much less. It was time to move on. Months down the road, though, I realize it's much easier said than done. I don't have any second thoughts at all about settling. Things were simply not going to resolve any other way without my exerting many more months, years, $$$ and grief.

Suffice it to say, we've had plenty of friends traipse through the house (as they're all starting kitchen renovations of their own). They now know who definitely NOT to go with, and they're telling everyone they know.

I'll also follow up with the Marble Institutes of America, as they have a file going. And I plan on posting a final chapter on the Stone Fabricators Alliance forum -- a very supportive group of pros there, one of whom actually stopped by the house to give me his professional assessment. If anyone ever does a search for Houston stone countertop fabricator, I'm hoping they see this thread. If anyone's in the Houston area and needs to know which company to steer clear of, feel free to message me.

Moving on to backsplash very soon. Thanks to everyone who's still awake. :)

I'm very glad to hear you're making progress! Anything on the cabinets? If you've posted on that lately I've missed it. We're up to our eyeballs in our own kitchen.

Oh goodness I have been thinking about you and your battle. I know you must just be so tired of it. It's so unfortunate and unfair when our dream kitchen goes bad due to the carelessness of the fabricators. It just makes me feel so lucky to have found Matt. Good luck with this!

TLC: I hope you're up to eyeballs in a good way. :) Especially with school out, I'd been thinking about you (I've dubbed you Ms Radio Silent). Feel free to stop by if you need a break. Cabinets: well, it's not for lack of effort on Showplace's part that we're now into month 5. They agreed to replace five upper cabinets and redo almost all the finish work that was so sloppily done. But the first new installer told me he'd been putting up cabinets for over 20 years, using drywall screws, and no way was a customer going to tell him what types of screws to use. OK, Mr. Installer: buh-bye! Well, that didn't go well. Round 2, installer 2: opened the cabinets and found that these were actually in worse shape than what I had up on my walls -- tons of issues that the SP VP was furious about when he saw my pics. They again reordered another set, and VP was to personally lay eyes on the cabinets before they left the factory. That set arrived and looked good...EXCEPT: they ordered the incorrect width for one of the cabs. Soooooo...the correct one arrived last Friday, and now we're waiting for yet another installer. Fingers crossed for this week.

Hi, Raven: Yeah, I was tired of this waaaayyy before last year. I don't have words really to describe my frame of mind these days....lots of deep breaths help temporarily. I've played this over in my mind again and again, and (perhaps wrongly) I've come to the conclusion that much of this boils down to luck. Sadly. I can't even say that I've learned any useful lessons that I could pass on to anyone else. It all feels like such a crapshoot at this point (with my counters, that is).