Beth, thanks for keeping us posted. Just wanted to ask if you are sterilizing your soil mix? I use 50/50 coir/perlite and I always microwave the coir first.

Sharlene

No I don't Sharlene. I've never sterilized the soil, and maybe I should. I dunno. Usually when I get around to potting them up, I just run outside and fill some little pots or the clear cups with potting soil I have recently purchased from Ace Hardware where I used to work. I used to root cuttings all the time just potting them in one gal pots in plain old potting soil, with a 2litre bottle on top, and leaving them out in the cold weather outside.

I don't understand why the florist roses are so hard to root. It's really frustrating. But, I seriously think my problem has been maybe not getting the soil drained enough. I think it's been too wet. And also, maybe because I wasn't doing any scarification before. Those last few batches, I used my pruners to scrape the outer layer off and even sort of scraping the budeye at the bottom. Not sure if that will be of any benefit or not. Guess we'll see! I just wanna get something to root. I don't know what I did really to get VERSILIA to root a few yrs ago. Maybe it was just a fluke. (probably)

You're rooting issues are likely a number of factors, Beth. First, they weren't selected for rooting and probably don't root easily. Second, the age and condition of the material. When you take cuttings from your garden, they're fresh. When you pick them up from the store, who knows how old they are and whether they've been kept in clean water or not? They may have even been treated with something to reduce their viability for propagation. Perhaps they may work better with warmer weather? Or, not. All you can do is keep trying different variations of what has worked for you previously until you find the right combination that works for what you're trying. It CAN be quite frustrating.

Yeah, I realize all that, actually, Kim. But it just seems like something has to take at some point. Or not. LOL Once those rootstocks get going in spring I will definitely start trying to bud instead. But til then, I'm still determined to get something to root. Guess it's my Taurean stubbornness!

I checked them this morning, and a few more don't look too good. One of the QUICKSAND (why do I keep calling it QUICKSILVER??) stems that I was hoping had rooted, had little tiny bugs crawling around the base. I sprayed some insecticide on them and the soil. Maybe I will have to start sterilizing the soil mix.

I'm pretty darn sure one of the SANTANAs has rooted and I'm not sure if I should put it outside yet or not. I have a "chamber" that I made last yr out of PVC pipe and there's clear plastic film surrounding it. I wonder if I should start moving the ones that seem to have rooted out into that to get them sort of hardened off. It's pretty darn cold outside tho. Been in the 40s at night. The chamber is on a table on the back patio that has a brick wall next to it which would stop any wind, and an awning overhead. I wouldn't need a light there, even tho I have one from my rooting attempts last yr. There'd be plenty of indirect light most of the day. And besides I've kept them in mostly darkness inside anyway. I'm just so hesitant to put them out there yet tho. We're expecting a ton of rain and really cold temps in the coming week... so the weather people keep saying... But we all know how "accurate" they can be.. LOL We were supposed to get a big storm a few days ago, and that never amounted to anything.

Thought I'd take some pics...

Here's the last two of the SANTANAs. These will actually be 6 weeks tomorrow.

And these are some of the CHERRY BRANDYs. Only 3 weeks tomorrow. Every one is leafing out way ahead of the other roses at this point, the stems are red and supple, and they look really happy!! I realize it could be just stored energy, but they don't seem to be slowing down yet.

I know I'm probably wasting my time and money doing this, but I don't care. It's fun and interesting, and like I keep saying... at some point one or more of these has got to take!!

That isn't a "waste of time or money", Beth, it's called "RESEARCH" and is the only way knowledge is obtained. Besides, as long as you are having fun doing it, it keeps you out of pool halls, doesn't it? LOL!

So true Kim. And I don't smoke or go to bars either. I can't say I don't drink tho.... I do imbibe occasionally... or often... right now.... oh crap... there's a bunch of money I could spend on roses.........

You're too funny! LOL! Nope, you can't spend everything on roses. What would you do for fun at night? Or, when it's raining/snowing? You have to have something to do for fun with your better half and friends who aren't as into gardening and roses!

Oh... We don't have many friends. Don't have time. And my husband is such a light-weight anymore... he has one beer in the evening and falls asleep in the lounge chair with the TV blaring. Then I have a cocktail and fall asleep at the computer.. while searching for roses, etc... We're not much fun! LOL

(We're related...except it doesn't require a beer or coctail for me to follow suit!)

Has anyone tried stenting a florist rose with an easy to root rose yet? (Stenting is when you graft a rose on to another at the same time you are trying to root that rose)

Sequoia Nursery "stented" mini tree roses for decades under mist. It can be done. It's just a bit easier when done during warm weather and under mist. Warmth increases cellular activity, making them knit and grow faster and mist prevents the scion from drying out until the plant is "one" and can sustain itself.

bethnorcal, I just lost all my cuttings and I am sure the soil was too wet. I'm going to sterilize everything before I try again. I use large rubbermaid containers with plexiglas for a lid (bought the containers for about $1 without lids and already had the plexiglas.) The oddest thing was one of the containers had about 100 or more millipedes in it! One of the others had spidermites! Never had that happen before. I had a mix of altheas, lantana, forsythia, and roses in two of the containers. Lost the rose cuttings but many of the others have roots that look like spaghetti! If you know what I mean. Also found one of those striped skinks in one of them, I really don't know how he got in there as the containers are in my basement room.

OMG that's too funny! (but not really...) Yeah I should sterilize my potting medium too. I did a batch of another rose the other day, and this time I used about half sand, 1/4 potting soil and 1/4 of this nice organic material that looks like a fine, soft bark mulch I got at Ace. Didn't sterilize it tho. We'll see how it does. I also bought some perlite and peat moss to try as well.

I checked the cuttings yesterday and had to toss several. The one SANTANA one might be ok, but the smaller one started to turn black at the top. Trimmed it off, but I don't think it's going to make it. Lost all but one of QUICKSAND (bummer), and it's probably not going to make it. Down to one of the FAITHs. All the CHERRY BRANDYs look great, so I expect maybe I'll get s few to make it. FREE SPIRITs looks crappy-ish, but they're slower going, so maybe that's better. They aren't nearly as wet as the other batches. And the new one, CARROUSEL, will be the first in the sand mix which is just nicely moist. So...will keep ya posted on those....

Last fall I had some luck using coir to root some late cuttings I had taken. They weren't florist roses though! Did the rubbermaid box, but left the lid cracked, and I think I used bottom heat too.

More updates...

All of the QUICKSAND cuttings failed, as well as the Faith ones. I'm quite sure they were too wet. That one SANTANA is still going. The big leaf it popped out in the beginning has begun to shrivel up. But, I think it has probably rooted. The stem is still supple and showing no signs of turning black after over 7 weeks. And there are at least two other budeyes swelling nicely.

Still, all 12 of the CHERRY BRANDY cuttings are looking great. Sprouting leaves and no signs of turning black. Most of those I did put in the clear cups, and I don't see any signs of roots yet, but I think at least some of them will eventually root.

Other cuttings are only a couple weeks along and doing ok. They are taking it slower, which might just be a good thing. They are gradually popping out budeyes, which to me... I think is better than them sprouting a bunch of leaves really fast, using up energy that could go to the root production. So, hopefully they will keep going. I know they are not as wet as the previous batches were.

I also potted up cuttings of DUETT, a lovely cream with coral-pink edges, and got another batch of the QUICKSANDs!! This time they are in a sand/perlite/peat moss mix that's just slightly moist. Hopefully that will be better than the wet potting soil. Will keep you guys posted again...

Well, crap. I think I'm done trying to root them. That last SANTANA just suddenly turned black this morning. The rest of the cuttings look ok, except a few of the FREE SPIRIT ones. Some are beginning to turn black at the tips and get a touch of mold. I'll keep the rest of the cuttings going til they all either turn black or something roots. But damn. I'm at 0% success. After this I will wait til I get some of the rootstocks established and start trying some budding. I am so disappointed. I was so sure that SANTANA was rooting. Oh well. I guess my experiment is pretty much a failure.

A "failure" at this time of year, when it's too cold, too wet with too little sun. The perfect time for molds and rots to grow. Summer heat with greater strength of light and less cold/wet is sure to help with the success rate. Fortunately, Pink Clouds roots like Bermuda grass and buds even more easily!

Oh Beth - sorry to hear that!

You know, reading all your posts gave me itchy fingers and because I still had space in my propagator, I tried again with a mixed bunch from Aldi. Stuck 11 cuttings 3 weeks ago. To date, have lost 3 (the stems turned yellow from the top down) 2 look a bit 'iffy', 2 have sprouted new leave (but can't see any roots) and the other 4 haven't done anything yet. The rest of my propagator is filled with cuttings of 'The Fairy' which I took 6 weeks ago - very easy to root! Only lost one out of 20 cuttings. Wouldn't it be great if Florist roses were as easy!

By the way, have you thought about air rooting? If you have a rose that has died but the rootstock has survived you could try air rooting and grafting at the same time. Works well for me.

Sharlene

Yeah, I'll bud them once those babies get going. I still need to do some practicing first. Haven't had the time or desire with the holidays and these colder temps! I probably should go try to bud at least a couple of the QUICKSAND ones onto the ones that are already rooted. Just so I don't lose it. It was cool to get two batches of that rose. My luck, they may never get it in again!

Air rooting? I do have a couple of DR HUEY rootstocks that I've thought of using.One rose died back to it, and a couple others have constant suckers that get huge. Maybe if I can yank one out with roots attached... hmmm...might have to try that. But first I gotta practice on some scraps.. tonight....

They say practice make perfect! But it is actually not that difficult. :)

Just to share, I was able to mass propagate some Belinda Dream rose cuttings and others by using Liquidsoil concentrate (a hydroponic solution I mentioned somewhere on a previous post) about 2 years ago. the success rate was around 70-80%...I think I might try this method on some florist roses I got from a men off the street of Pittsburgh (fantastic deal a dozen for 1 $ plus the stems were 50cm long)!
after (sorry for the out of order pics)
before

some older cuttings

That's cool. Maybe I'll have to try it.

I just looked up Liquidsoil concentrate. Sounds promising and it's affordable. Thanks for the tip!

Beth, what's the status on your cuttings??

I only have 3 of the 11 left. Today, I actually saw a root on one today - yeh!!! The other two are still looking ok.

Sharlene

Aww man. I was just going to update anyway... Just kinda disappointed. I pulled one of the CHERRY BRANDYs to see if it was showing signs of rooting. They're all beginning to look stressed. The leaves that popped out have stalled and are looking like they're going to start wilting. Sure enough, that stem I pulled up was a goner. Most of the CBs are in the clear cups, and I see no signs of roots after what is it? 6weeks? The next batch, FREE SPIRIT, most are gone. There are about 3 left that still look supple and have smaller budeyes still trying to sprout.

Now, the DUETTs and the second batch of QUICKSANDs are the first ones I put in a mixture of only sand and this really nice organic amendment that our Ace got in. It's a very fine rich-looking bark-y kinda stuff. I made sure those were barely damp. Those cuttings are taking it a lot slower. Looking ok and just popping budeyes gradually. I did notice one of the bags had a cutting getting mold, so will have to go snip the top of it off. It's barely been 3weeks since I put them in.

And then Xmas Eve I got CARROUSEL, which I actually haven't checked yet. That batch I used a little different potting mix. It's sand, perlite, peat moss and whatever little bit was left of the organic mix I had made up for the other batches.

I also last weekend grabbed some stems off the SPICE TWICE plant I gave my mom yrs ago. It's got three cuttings in a pot of the last potting mixture I did. Those stems are like 1/2"-5/8" thick and popping budeyes nicely. I expect that one to work. Hopefully, anyway!

I decided I'm not going to try any further rooting of florist roses, until I see how these do with the better soil mix. Altho, if Safeway happens to get something wonderful in in the coming weeks, I might try another experiment. (usually on Thursdays they have good ones, but yesterday they had crap!) I've been using old powdered Rootone that maybe just isn't any good anymore. I have some newer liquid Root 'n' Grow that I might try. I just hate mixing it up for one batch at a time. It's expensive. But if these batches of cuttings all end up failing, next month I plan to use the chamber they're in to start tomato seeds and pepper seeds and some flower seeds. And once the weather gets better (not that I'm complaining about the much-needed rain) I will start practicing the budding. Once I get it down, I will see what rootstocks have rooted and maybe finally try something.

Anyone going to try the Liquidsoil concentrate?

Beth, have you tried wrapping them?

I'm actually in my first week of irresistible and honors batches with liquid soil concentrate and there starting to show callouses ...once I get my hands on some florist I'll try it out

Oh yes Kim, I did try wrapping them last yr. The very first batch calloused nicely, but once I potted them up, they eventually turned black and died. In the meantime, I still tried several more batches, but none of the subsequent ones calloused. But that was just the florist ones again. Haven't tried garden roses that way yet.

May have to look into that Liquidsoil stuff...

You should try callousing them by wrapping then leaving them in the liquidsoil solution...I think that might help since the stems will be in a liquid medium that can easily promote rooting over a longer period of time. Rot my be less of an issue with this method

Potted up 7 or so cuttings today of White Majolica in peat/vermiculite/Pearlite in a plastic container with a lid. Cut, dipped in powdered rooting hormone, then popped them under the lights with all my seeds!

They have healthy looking bud eyes- so fingers crossed. Im going to try and root lots of florist roses this year- so will keep updating with any progress :)

Well, good luck. I hope you can get them to root. I lost every one of the florist roses I tried to root, and even the SPICE TWICE ones I got from my mom's house. And the stentlings I tried to do with the QUICKSAND budeyes on DR HUEY are turning moldy and black. The only roses I managed to get to root were all the rootstocks that Kim's buddy Karen sent me to try. Oh and maybe, possibly one of the SIMSALABIM cuttings I did before Xmas, might've made it. All of those I left outside. I'm wondering if maybe doing them in the enclosed reptile cage was not such a great idea. The ones outside, I had inside big baggies until it started to warm up a little, and then I took them out and just left them out in the elements. What's funny is... when I used to do rooting yrs ago, I always just did them outside even in winter. Maybe that's the key.

Thats actually a good point- the roses up till this point are really pushed to their limit, maybe keeping them outside will help their native 'plant-instincts' kick in. I might move a few of them outside to endure the elements to compare how the indoor ones do.

Keep us posted on that. If you have luck rooting florist roses outside, maybe I'll give it a try if I find one I want. Yet another experiment....

Interesting. I'll have to try that. I have plenty of perlite and lots of mini pots. So, no misting or covering the whole thing to make a greenhouse effect?

No covering. No bag or bottle or anything. I did a comparison (because I have this unstoppable urge to put cuttings in a plastic bag). Here is the result in May 2014 with 'Winchester Cathedral', one week after striking the cuttings. The top one was without any covering, and with misting (because the orchids get mist). The bottom was in a bag with sticks to prop the bag off the foliage (other cuttings covered with bags were rosemary). Leaves yellowed in the bag, and dropped off even after I took the bag off. Limited sample size, I know.

Result June 2014: the one on the left was no bag; the one on the right right had 1 week of bag and the yellowed leaves.

'Old Blush' on the windowsill November 2013, no mist, no bag (plastic bag on right was for baggie method - failed).

That's great noseameter! You didn't mention how many florist rose cuttings you took? This year my success rate with florist roses was 3 out of 11.

The success rate of rose from my own garden is around 90%. For me, florist roses are much more difficult to root.

Beth, did any of your florist roses root?

Sharlene

I struck one cutting. I didn't want more than one bush. It was the first time I rooted a florist rose.

That's very cool. I think I must try this! I'm also gonna try just potting them outside in a semi-shady spot.

Nope Sharlene, not a one of them. Not even the stents I tried on DR HUEY. And I popped a couple of KALEIDOSCOPEs in a pot and baggie a few weeks ago... just looked yesterday and even those biffed it! Ya know tho, just realized I actually still have one cutting of SHOGUN that I potted up and bagged up, way back in like Oct or Nov that I ended up sticking outside without the bag in Jan. It is still green, but not showing signs of growth, no swollen budeyes... just sitting there. Maybe there's still some hope for that one. Only (more) time will tell I guess!

Good luck! Keep us updated on your progress. I hope my method works for you, but if not, keep trying. You may find your own method.

Did you see this posting? http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3185214/this-is-what-has-worked-for-me  It seems to work for a number of people (I wish it worked for me!).

Yep... tried it... didn't work...

Wow, very interesting method, noseometer. I'm going to give this a try just for fun. The method you mentioned in the above post works FANTASTICALLY for me. I tried over 50 cuttings last summer through winter, and only failed ONE!

Cl15dangn, I ordered the liquid soil concentrate you recommended. I'm trying to root these florist roses. I know they are difficult to root, but it will be fun trying. I placed the stems by a sunny window. Here are the roses.

Can you update, jasmine?

Hi Kachana. The liquid soil didn't work, but the seller said the cuttings needed to be placed in a southern facing window and I didn't have one. I might try again, placing the cuttings outside, but it's too hot now. I will try noseometer's method too.

Inside a window MAY work in the right climate, but where the sun is extreme, the glass works like a magnifying glass, cooking them. Moist, cool, indirect light should work much better than any direct sun close to the actual window panes through a window. Indoor air is generally far too dry to root roses. A window sill is also the perfect set of conditions for spider mites. Even with "E" glass, a sunny window sill is often many degrees hotter than the rest of the air in the room when the sun shines directly through the window.

Thanks Kim. I will try it outside.

With more observation, I agree with Kim and revise my recommendation in terms of the windowsill. If the air is still, plants/cuttings are more likely to get diseases like powdery mildew as well as spider mites, and the window where I rooted the Old Blush only had direct sunlight for an hour or two a day, with bright indirect light the rest of the day. It is also under the swamp cooler ducts and next to the washroom sink so there was some humidity and air circulation. In my orchid case, there are fans to circulate the air, and high humidity with timed misters so this may have helped with my success rate.

I had a number of failures with Bolero this year, so my method is not infallible (I attribute it to a faulty timer on my lighting system, that left plants in the dark - unnoticed when I went to work). The Freedom rose that I rooted did great with the orchids, but horribly when placed with the outdoor roses, so if you are growing florist roses, beware that it might not be a good garden rose. Even with garden roses, they are very climate specific, so there may be even more variation with florist roses.