Hi JunesBloom,

I got your email, but I will answer your question here where you have the advantage of possible second opinions.

Since you intend to plant them along a sidewalk and you said "not too tall" that eliminates California Giants, Cut and Come Again, and State Fair, which are rather tall. The Sun Bow zinnias are 24" to 30", which is probably a bit too tall for your preferences.

Burpee's Border Beauty zinnias are 18-20 inches tall, which is probably suitable for your sidewalk border.

Burpee's Burpeeana Giants are listed as 20 to 24 inches tall, which might be suitable for your sidewalk border. Just don't crowd them, or like all zinnias, they will stretch higher.

Zinnia Pulcino is a non-hybrid that is about 14 inches tall. The similar Dreamland and Magellans are F1 hybrids in that same size range. Be aware that the Dreamlands and Magellans can look really nice in a border situation.

You mention that you want a non-hybrid because you want to save seeds from them. And by "non-hybrid" I assume you meant F1 hybrid. F1 hybrid zinnia seeds are expensive, but you can save seeds from them. You will just get quite a few variations from the uniform F1 parent.

You mentioned a mix. Unless they say it is a formula mix, a field mix comes from a field of different colors of zinnias all grown together. Zinnias are primarily pollinated by bees. And bees mix the pollen all around. They self a lot of zinnias, but they also randomly cross-pollinate a lot of zinnias.

So your "mix" of zinnias will contain a significant amount of F1 hybrids courtesy of the bees. And the seed grower got his seed stock from bee-pollinated zinnias, so a significant number of zinnias in the seed field were already F1 hybrids via bees, so some of those random bee hybrids were actually crossing one F1 hybrid with another F1 hybrid.

Don't be afraid to save seeds from F1 hybrids, and don't be afraid to cross one F1 hybrid with another F1 hybrid. I have been doing it for years. Bees have no fears or rules when pollinating the zinnia seeds that you are going to plant, so you can "be the bee" and pollinate your zinnias however you like. You might get something new and different that really appeals to you.

ZM

I really appreciate the great insight!!

I had no idea you could get a decent flower from crossing the hybrids! (I just didn't really think about it, we grow lots of vegetables and crossing hybrids is something we try to avoid, but a flower is a little different and your right about the bees!!) The hybrids that you mentioned do look really nice :) My side walk border is 40 ft. long and I was hoping to direct seed them into the bed so planting the hybrids would probably be pretty expensive (I noticed I could buy the varities I mentioned in approx. 1 oz. package at a reasonable price :) ).

I "like" the taller varieties but I was afraid they might blow over...have you experienced this problem and is there a way to prevent it like planting them closer together so they could support themselves maybe?

For instance: if I were to plant the Burpee's Border Beauty and saved seed would the plants get taller and taller after a few years of saving the seed or would they stay in the 18-20" range? What type of variations might I expect?

Also, what is the difference in the amount of time it takes the varieties I mentioned compared to the shorter ones you mentioned to bloom?

Thanks so much!!!

decisions, decisions!!

Looking over the varieties we discussed I might either try the Pulcino or the Cut and Come Again simply because they are cheaper! The Sunbow is stated to only have 1-2" blooms and I think I would prefer a larger bloom. Hazzard's has the Cut and Come Again listed at 27" tall. They might be ok as long as the stems are strong! The Pulcino is a packet of 250 seeds for $14.00. Do you think this would be enough seed to plant a 40ft. by 2 ft. sidewalk bed?

I think the hybrid seeds just might be to expensive for me. Would it be worthwhile to purchase one packet of a hybrid variety, grow it in my garden this year, and save the seeds and use them to plant against my sidewalk next year?

We live north of KC....so not too far from you! We would not have quite the wind that you have of course unless a storm comes through! Do you sell Zinnia seed?

Hi Junesbloom,I grow several kinds of zinnias every year.My most fav is Uproar Rose which isn't what you want.Few seeds to a pack that I start inside.But another kind is Burpee Starlight mix.31/2 '' blooms,mixed colors. Pkg says 14'' tall but they get taller.Nice bushy ,heavy bloomers.Last year they were 98cents on the racks.There are others I pick up,think they are CA Giants in separate colors.
rose Iowa

JB,

"The Pulcino is a packet of 250 seeds for $14.00. Do you think this would be enough seed to plant a 40ft. by 2 ft. sidewalk bed? "

If that bed had just two rows, which would probably be enough for 2 feet wide, that could work. At 4 inches between seeds, each 6 seeds would take you another foot down the bed, and 6 x 40 = 240, which would take most of the seeds in the packet and leave you a few seeds to fill in a few spots. And you could "stretch" the seeds a bit by putting them 5 inches apart, which would give you more seeds left over at the end of the bed. I like to have some seeds left over to fill in any spots that don't come up. Commercial seeds typically germinate about 80%. My hand-saved seeds may germinate as low as 50%. Incidentally, the Lil Dahling zinnias are similar but cost less (the 1000 seed package is $21.95.)

The Whirligigs are affordable, and very interesting because of their great variety, but at 27 inches high might be taller than you want. I recommend Whirligigs to beginning zinnia breeders because they have so many different "looks" that you won't see pictured or described on a seed packet.

The Burpee Starlight mix that Rose mentioned might be a good dwarf strain. Oddly, they are not listed on the Burpee website. The question is, how many seeds are in a packet? Apparently Cooks Garden has packaged Starlight mix in bigger more expensive packets that contain 100 seeds. Perhaps someone who has one of the seedrack packets can tell us about how many seeds are in one of those packets.

I don't sell zinnia seed. I can't say I haven't thought about it. But that can be complicated. I would need to keep records for income tax, register as some kind of business entity like an LLC, do germination testing, the list goes on. I grow zinnias for fun, and none of that stuff sounds like fun. If you develop a "glow in the dark" zinnia, I might trade some of my oddball zinnia seeds with you (grin).

ZM

Oh, now, I think all that stuff could be fun. You just have to have the right outlook. Imagine being able to deduct cowpats as a biz expense (fertilizer). I think business startup could be a blast.
And we could say we knew you when:) And ask for your autograph on seed packets.

Thanks Rose!!
I really do like the sound of Burpees Starlight Mix but I had the same questions ZM had so I called Burpee and they told me that the Starlight Mix was only sold through Amazon, Cooks, and Home Depot. I noticed that Cooks packet had 100 seeds and I was told Home Depot's packets were sold by weight and the weight is 500 mg. Any idea approx. how many seeds that would be? The packets at Home Depot are only $1.00.

Also, will all of these varieties that we mention bloom well up until frost?

Thanks :)

My Starlight is the Burpee seeds that are on racks at Walmart.These packets are smaller than Burpee seed pkts at other plant places.The 2012 is 275mgs.Looks like maybe 50 seeds.Just guessing.I do know it is smaller than first 1 I got 5-6 years ago but that is to be expected. I wouldn't call it a dwarf.It is shorter than the 3-4 footers.The picture on Cooks is the same as on my pkt.There are some really luscious colors in this mix.
I sow mine outside in 1 of my larger pots or tubs & transplant in different spots.I do it fairly early & cover if it threatens to frost.
I'm going to look & see if these are on racks this year.
Yes they will bloom until frost gets them.
rose

JB,

" I noticed that Cooks packet had 100 seeds and I was told Home Depot's packets were sold by weight and the weight is 500 mg. Any idea approx. how many seeds that would be? The packets at Home Depot are only $1.00."

Zinnia seeds vary quite a bit in size and weight per seed, depending on the variety. As a rule, the large flowered zinnias have large heavier seeds and the smaller flowered zinnias have smaller lighter seeds. Zinnia seeds vary from 2500 to 6200 seeds per ounce (28 grams).

So, lets do a little math. For the sake of argument, let's say that the Starlight Mix zinnias are 4000 seeds per ounce. That would be 4000 seeds per 28000 milligrams, so 4 seeds would weigh 28 milligrams. The Home Depot packet has 500 mg, so (4 x 500) / 28 = 71 seeds in the Home Depot packet.

Well, we kind of pulled that 4000 seeds per ounce figure out of the air, but it is probably safe to say that a Home Depot packet contains at least 50 seeds, and possibly as many as 100 seeds. Which would make them cheaper than the Cooks Garden seeds.

I imagine Cooks Garden stores their seeds better than Home Depot, but if you don't see any water damage on the packets, I would buy them off the seed racks. I bought a bunch of Burpeeana Giant seeds from Walmart for the same reason. They were cheaper per seed than buying them directly from Burpee. Although, I buy from Burpee every year.

"Also, will all of these varieties that we mention bloom well up until frost?"

They will still be trying to bloom when frost kills them, but they will be in pretty sad shape by that time. Zinnias like warm weather, lots of sunshine, and long days. In the Fall, all three of those things are going away and zinnias have become susceptible to Powdery mildew and other problems. And they are going to seed. But zinnias do have a long blooming season, and each individual zinnia bloom can last for several weeks.

A tip for making your Fall zinnia bed look better. Stagger you planting time, and make a second planting sometime in July. As they begin to bloom, you can save seeds from your first crop and remove them, leaving the fresh new crop. Those will be much younger plants in the Fall, not weakened by going to seed, and more resistant to diseases. A second zinnia planting is much cheaper than buying a bunch of chrysanthemum plants.

ZM

This post was edited by zenman on Tue, Mar 26, 13 at 12:27

You are awesome Zenman!!!!!!!!! Thanks so much for your help. :) And much thanks to you too Rose!
I think I have decided that I'm going to try the Starlight Mix. To be on the safe side I will probably just assume they have 50 seeds and purchase around 7-8 packets, that would give me half again of what was listed on the Pulcino packet (you thought that it could work but it would be close). It would be better to have too many than not enough! and I would have extras for a second planting. I plan on picking them up this weekend with one packet of a larger variety to plant in a different location just to experiment with (Home Depot also has one called Giant Violet Queen that I thought looked beautiful.)
I will definitely keep in mind about staggering my planting for a better fall bed.

How early can I plant these? Rose you mentioned planting them early and then covering them if there is a danger of frost.

This post was edited by junesbloom on Wed, Mar 27, 13 at 0:03

FWIW, the whirlgigs that zenman suggested are only $3.95/oz, thats thousands of seeds, at stokes....I couldn't resist! Mass planting here I come lol.

Great advice Zenman. Can't wait for them to come up!

Yes,Zenman is the man! I might have daylilies costing big bucks but I still love my zinnias.Nothing better for butterfly magnets.
Yes,there are lots of pretty ones in the catalogs & if you are ordering anyway its OK .But the postage on 2-3 pkts of zinnia seeds makes it expensive in the long run.
There are lots of pretty ones on racks at box stores.I usually grow Enchantress pink ,too. If they get dry & stressed the black spot mildew hits mine. I'm going to spray with fungicide I use on tomatoes.
rose

Rose, I look at it differently. Since the shipping is quite expensive I need to justify the order by ordering more seeds *grin* Plus for the past while stokes has been sending a coupon for free shipping on your next order (at least here in Canada) before it expires I order a pack or so. When I receive my seeds there is another coupon!

Thanks for the tip on black spot mildew.