There are a couple of responses to your photo post.

I'll jump in here though. My experience with trunk chops and heavy pruning on elms is that binding placed around the wound site --which it looks like you've done and is recommended by some books--is unecessary and can actually inhibit budding. The binding can cover up and block the buds that emerge below the cut site.

Buds NEVER really appear exactly where you want them. Expecting them to form in the narrow slot at the top of the chop isn't realistic (even though the books always show this happening). It's much more choatic than that. Chopping a trunk activates buds all along the trunk below the wound. Buds can erupt anywhere from the nebari to the chop. They are more likely the nearer you get to the top, since that's where the highest concentration of bud activating hormone accumulates.

In short, I've found that lightly sealing the wound site --to prevent it drying out-- is the only treatment that's needed for elms. Chop/seal--wait to see where the buds appear.

Oh, by the way, the older the trunk, the longer it will take for buds to break through the bark. On older trees with thicker bark, this can take up to two months, depending on the tree's strength and its root mass.

Norm, you might try posting your question on the IBC. There's a handful of guys over there that have about done it all, I think.
Good luck,
zube

Mark thanks for relating your experiences with Elms. Have you attempted this specific technique with Zelkovas or are your remarks more general in nature? I have to wonder why every article and book that I have seen concerning this technique is so specific; surely this must have worked for someone at some time. It may take me a few years but I intend to sort this out.
On a more personal note, I donÂt know why, in the first sentence of your first interaction with me, you felt the need to contradict me, it was unnecessary and added nothing to the discussion. I make every attempt to choose my words carefully and to convey my meaning in an accurate fashion. I never said that I had received no responses, but that my question had not been answered, there is a difference.

Um, if you want to take issue with what was essentially a throw away line OK--Here's the thing, you and I may choose our words carefully, but that doesn't mean they're going to be taken as they're meant. The Internet is a difficult place sometimes. Things get misunderstood, overblown, or overthought. You said:

"I have not yet had a response that addresses my question." Yet you had responses that addressed your question on several of the forums you've posted this on. What you meant, apparently, was that those responses weren't adequate. I misunderstood. I simply commented that there were responses on those other places that you may not have seen. My remarks was a prompt to refer you back to take another look in case you hadn't seen them.

The experience I've had in trunk chopping hasn't been with Zelkova (yet--I have a large one that is probably going to get this treatment in the next year or two). It's been with elms--which Zelkova basically is.

Elms sprout prolifically down the trunk below large pruning wounds--especially big ones like trunk chops. Binding them with stuff around the wound can suppress budding mechanically and physically. The binding if tight enough can kill them as they emerge. It also prevent sunlight from hitting the trunk. Direct sunlight helps activate budding. The process that's in the books has worked--somewhere else with someone else's tree. The binding is meant to force budding at or near the callus and suppress it below. The problem is that callus tissue is virtually free of buds--in most cases, it is completely dvoid of "resting" buds. So you've got a very narrow strip of trunk tissue you're aiming at to make the broom's initial branches. The tissue you're trying to stimulate to make leaves is JUST BELOW the callus tissue and above the binding.

Bascically, the issue you have is that it's not working for your situation and your tree. You can try to perfect this technique, or move to another that works a bit more efficiently. Personally, I have read alot of bonsai books (I collect them) and have found that alot of the advice given in them is faulty or similar results can be obtained with other methods...

"On a more personal note, I donÂt know why, in the first sentence of your first interaction with me, you felt the need to contradict me, it was unnecessary and added nothing to the discussion."

Norm...welcome, welcome, welcome. My only advice, is get used to it here. It will bother you at first (it did with me) then you realize to just let it roll off. I know its hard to show emotion when writing and understand how certain people take certain things...

Its unfortunate, but tolerable. I know of at least 5 people who have left this forum for 'another' because of it. Not because they can't take the heat, but..well..I will just leave it at that :)!

matt ouwinga

Matt,

still not really addressing his question are you?

Mark,

Nope, you answered it. I was responding to his comment, not his question.

Matt

Be honest. You were trying to be cute and lash out at me, not help this guy out. You orginally tried, but the response didn't address the question, hence this post..

Here is a link that might be useful: original post

Mark,

I didn't fully answer his post because I failed to post a picture which I promised and I apoligize to Norm for that...I will get on it soon.

I will post my zelcova again so he can get a 'visual' picture, which is very helpful, on some possibly future direction of his tree...that may be the ulimate response!

Matt

P.S. I am pretty cute, but I rarely lash out on people :)

Mark:
Thanks for elaborating, your points regarding the random nature of the emergence of new buds and the pros and cons of binding the trunk is taken. Being a pragmatist I have removed the binding in order to ensure the survival of this tree, being stubborn I will modify my technique and try again next year.
At the risk of escalating this exchange, my statement at the top of this thread was limited to events that transpired on this forum, and in that context was entirely accurate. Matt, in his replies to my initial post, made no attempt to answer my original question.
You wrote, "There are a couple of responses to your photo post." this clearly indicates that you also were referring to posts on this forum as I posted no photos elsewhere. Furthermore, I had no way of knowing until now that you were aware of any other posts that I may have made. Now whoÂs not being honest?

Matt:
Please donÂt interpret the fact that I chose to seek more information as disrespectful of you, you were the only one to respond to my initial post and treated me with courtesy, thank you.

Norm

Norm,

I never interpreted you seeking more information as being disrespectful...none to worry. I did a lousy job intially answering the question.

I will post pictures of my zelkova hopefully tomorrow!

Take care and have a good evening.

Matt

This is ridiculous! Norm, I NEVER read into Mark's post any kind of contradiction to you. His post was completely informative with no emotional content except what you read in there. Why would you possibly take his first sentence as a personal attack?

Mark, try not to take the bait when confronted for something that didn't happen. You know you were simply trying to help out from your own experience. Own your integrity! You have a lot to bring to the table, and you sell yourself short in this kind of food fight.

Here we have a case of everyone wearing their feelings on their sleeves, and finding offense where none was intended. So the supposed offendee gets his back up and spouts off, thus escalating what never existed. The printed word as communication leaves something to be desired in this fast-paced world. This is why people invented emoticons, and shorthand such as IMHO, LOL, LMAO, and ROFLMAO, among others. There is no vocal inflection or body language here to inform us what a person "meant by that." If I say to my wife, "You look nice today," but my eyes roll and I overemphasize the wrong word, I have insulted her. If I type to her, "You look nice today," what will she read into that? Probably whetever her recent experience has been with me.

Everyone, for goodness sake, and in the spirit of bonsai, let's give the benefit of the doubt before lashing out at someone! Let them prove themselves of ill will before we take measures to isolate them and make them feel unwelcome. I'm begging all of you to acknowledge that

corgies rule
{{gwi:6914}}

Chris Johnston

Chris, you forgot WTF.
zube

Norm,

You posted the same question on the BTalk forum with reference to photos. I won't post a link to it, as that will anger the forum Gods here. Anyway, I was referring to that. I guess I'm a little confused as to why you're upset. I made an honest attempt to help. Had no intention of anything else.

Chris, I try hard not to "take the bait," however sometimes I am a very weak person ;-)

BTW:
Bull terriers rule

zube, don't forget STFW for those annoying basic-basic newbie questions.

Chris Johnston

Corgies rule
{{gwi:6914}}

Mark:

You had me second-guessing myself for a minute and I was considering how to phrase my apology. I think I see where the confusion has come from. I did in fact post a question elsewhere with very similar wording, but you are incorrect in saying that I referenced a photo, perhaps you should review that post. I won't post a link to it, as that will anger the forum Gods here.

I acknowledged your help and thanked you appropriately, I have no animosity toward you and if this was an honest misunderstanding, (on both our parts), I can accept that and move on. The question now is can you?

Chris:

Who do you know that has firsthand knowledge of every species? This is my first time working with Zelkovas, and I make no apologies for seeking help. You can deride me for being a newbie if it makes you feel superior. I donÂt really care what your opinion of me is.

Norm

Norm, if you are going to insist on seeing an insult in every side joke, you ought to be using snail mail instead of the web. My comment was strictly in answer to Zube. This is exactly what started the conflict in this stupid thread in the first place. Perhaps you should take the chip off your shoulder and lighten up just a little bit and remember that corgies rule!
{{gwi:6914}}

Chris Johnston

"I have no animosity toward you and if this was an honest misunderstanding, (on both our parts), I can accept that and move on. The question now is can you?"

Norm,

I have said that I was trying to clue you in on other answers posted on another forum. Period. Nothing more. You posted this question in whatever form (in more than one version) on different forums. There were multiple responses. I had seen those responses and wanted to make sure you had also. It is a misunderstanding for Pete's Sake.

For what it's worth, questioning peoples' motives at every turn might not be the best way to get help in the future. All you have to get others' help here is their opinion of you and their willingness to lend a hand based on that opinion.

Chris has solid ideas and impressive hands-on experience. He has worked with world-class bonsai instructor Boon Manakitivipart. No, doesn't make him a snooty expert worthy of bonsai worship (far from it), but it is a source of high-quality experience that you may have shut the door on.