Jamkh - I think part of the problem might lie in the fact you've been involved in growing trees outdoors (with your friend?) in the ground, but bonsai in little pots (from Wal-Mart or wherever) in bad soil, low light (maybe), that have had who knows what done to them to begin with, can't be treated like established, in-ground trees, and where something might work for those, it won't necessarily be good for bonsai - but sometimes it is of course.