Hello Kal,

A tremendously exciting endeavour you've laid out. Although you've hinted at them with what you've given as plans, what will you be using the space for? Your space is limited and would benefit from a good overall plan to make sure nothing gets inadvertently left out. Identifying what is important to you is always a good way to start. It will help focus the process of designing the space, in addition to the design itself.

- Audric

hi Audric,
Thanks for the quick response.
Yes, i forgot to mention the main reason for all this plan.
- I think, primarily it will be a place to relax during evenings and BBQ during weekends..
- We have a little one - 5 month old .. he probably will
run around very soon and now that you reminded me, it would be a good idea to plan if we can have a small play area.

Can't think of anything else ..
I guess that covers just about all the scenarios.

Thanks once again for your help.
-kal

How about putting up some espaliered plants against the wall, with color. Can't think of the name, but they primarily have red flowers along the highways in San Diego. A water feature would be good, however you have a child and they can be inquisitive and I read that they can drown in 2" of water. Do not put in bamboo, but heavenly bamboo might work along the fence, but no vines. I'd say the use of groundcovers heavily with the interspercing of blooming perennials and small trees similar to crape myrtle, multiple stems, spread throughout will give you the feeling of a peaceful enclosure. Visit a garden center or an arboretum and see the vast amounts of plants available and write down the ones you want to invesigate. When I moved to Colorado I visited the botanical gardens to get an idea of what grows and you should do the same. Also use a meandering walkway with flagstone, because with that you can make the area seem larger then it is.

Here is a link that might be useful: Propagating Perennials

Bougainvillea. I knew I'd remember as soon as I logged out.
Against the wall.

Here is a link that might be useful: Propagating Perennials

How exciting you have so much potential here. A couple of things to think about. You will need a play area, maybe a path on the side yard where he (your son) can ride his trike on. He will love to play in the water feature also. Another consideration for the plants is thorns, bougs have big thorns. I think it just depends on how much you want to make this kid friendly. I am not a great lover of grass opting for pavers or cement and lots of plants.
Just my opinion.
Linda

#1, bougainvillea is thorn city, as are roses and many palms, so I wouldn't go there. Personally I hate nandina (heavenly bamboo), because my neighbor's plants constantly try to expand under the fence into my yard. I am not feeling neighborly towards that plant, LOL!

Your yard is extremely small (most are, in the Bay Area). If you must have a water feature, place it up high enough so that your toddler can't reach it. Lucky you, that's an expensive and apparently new fence.

You really do need to plan this yard by activity separation, and how much time/space you would be devoting to each of those activities. A blank slate is not going to be optimized without proper planning.

Also, don't go too fast. You will have microclimates even in such a small garden, and until you have been there a full year, you will not know for sure which garden areas are best for your specific purposes.

I'd create a small barbecue area by your French doors - assume they are nearest the kitchen. Convenience is everything in cooking outside. Feel free to use precast pavers from HDepot or Lowe's - the ground doesn't freeze here, so a simple base excavation and some leveling are all that's needed.

Expect any trees or vines you put up to create shade, which affects what you can grow. Shading the air conditioning unit is good, but dropping leaves on it is NOT.

In the remaining south section, you can either put a grassy area for your toddler, or a level entertaining/lounging area. The limiting factor is where you are in the Bay Area. The North section would be perfect for a kid's area, but grass generally won't grow well in a shaded north area unless you're in the CoCo Cty area or similar. Alameda and SF Ctys get too much fog/shade for it - I live in the Oakland hills and have a north-facing garden bed full of aucuba, hellebores, and rhodies.

Be advised that here in CA you must beware of mislabeled plants in nurseries. "Full sun" plants you buy will often toast into a crisp in our overwhelming light, especially since you are facing West. Summer is going to be brutal on plants up against your house, with the heat radiating off the stucco.

The high UV index in California means that many 'full sun' plants are 'partial sun' here, and I have actually grown many sun-loving plants in beds shaded 90% of the day from direct sun. Always group your plants according to their water needs, because water is a precious resource here and droughts happen periodically. Keep your lawn to a minimum, and be ecological.

Once you've decided on a rough plan, sketch it out and people here or in the CA gardening forum (which is where I'd post this thread, actually) can help a bit. The reason I suggest the CA gardening forum is that your job is too small to interest the pros here on this forum, and our plant selections are so vastly different, you'd be able to get more area-specific help.

hi
Thanks all for taking time to guide me in what seems to be daunting task.
At this point i am more worried about the overall design/overall look i should go for. My main worry is - once i put in the hardscape with out a proper plan, it will become a bottleneck later on. Now that i found this forum i am going to cross check with the experts before i put-in any thing :)

- Linda, I never thought of thorns when I thought about roses - Shows how new i am to this :) - that is an excellent point and probably roses are out.

- Based on your answers I now realized kid friendly should be top priority.

- Should I remove the existing tree right at the entrance to B/Y? I am not sure if i should put pavers around it with a round opening or remove it completely. What about the other two trees?

- jkom, I am in Santaclara, and it gets quite hot compared to SF. I get your point, all plant should be close to the fence and not close to the house.

You think Once i get the overall layout help from this forum, i can post in CA forum for specific plant help would be a good plan?

I just got punch pro software from a friend. Don't know if that is a good one or not for landscape. I will play with it and will post a rough design based on your suggestions.

Thanks once again for your help.

hi,
I played with that software and thought i will first concentrate on paver, bench, and fountain.

Couldnt figure out how to make curvy instead of rectangle .. This is what i came up with :
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Hi, although I live on the E. Coast, my wife and I moved into a new home with a blank backyard 18 months ago, and we designed our backyard/sideyard from scratch like you are. Using a few books focused on designing gardens in small spaces, we too liked the idea of curving lines for a patio in the back. Our yard is 22 feet deep and our patio goes about 16 1/2 feet deep. Here is what we came up with:
{{gwi:18384}}


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hi Mike,
Woow!! Now, that looks like exactly what i want :)
If you don't mind.. I might be stealing this idea and see how i can fit into our yard ..

Do you remember which books you found relevant for this type of small yard? I checked out couple from local library but most of them are on how to build and not examples of design..

Thanks a lot for sharing ..

Hello Kal,

I have Punch Home Pro, too, but don't really use it for landscaping. I find it cumbersome (personally).

This is a deep, personal question: why curves? Why not straight lines?

- Audric

Hi Audric,
Yes, it took me some time to figure out how to do just that basic design .. I thought it is quite powerful but takes some time to learn.
what other s/w do you use for landscaping?

That is a good question, Why not straight lines .. I thought (read it some where ) that straight lines make it more formal... Isn't that right?

Thanks
-Kal

Hi - We too used library books, and I made copies from the books we referenced, but unfortunately, like a dope, I didn't photocopy the book covers. On my copies, the heading says "Plans for Small Gardens" as the title, but I looked on Amazon and I think the edition that we referenced must have been an older one that was a compact guide, since the book with that title "The Book of Plans for Small Gardens"
by Andrew Wilson is 249 pgs.
Here are a couple of tips I remember:
- creating one or more focal points is the most important part of planning your garden. You should imagine where you will be looking from, and where you want to focus people's attention
- dark fences give depth, making a space feel bigger (your fence is dark so that is good)
- if you plant vegetation/shrubs/trees, it has to be sized appropriately to the space, and you should try to layer it to give depth
Good Luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Book of Plans for Small Gardens

Hello Kal,

Sometimes I use Punch to set up building masses, but most designing I do by hand. Paper and pencil are my best friends. (Trace paper, too, and a million erasers).

Disregarding what you have read in the past, do you think straight lines are formal? I personally don't. Not intrinsically, at the very least. They can be used to create very formal designs, yes, but they don't necessarily equate into a formal design.

In your space, for example, the patio won't be the only thing in the space, and thus can be tempered by other elements to create the look or aesthetic that you want. The types of plants you choose, and/or their arrangement and/or placement can alter the look of the patio by visually breaking up the edges or by accentuating them. Even within the patio, the colour combinations, textures, patterns, scale of the pavers, all of these have an effect on the overall feeling.

I personally would say that a rectilinear patio would suit the space better, given its size. With a curvy patio, you might have to compromise on patio area to accommodate curves. The leftover space between the patio and fence may be too narrow at spots to plant with anything significant.

There's a lot to consider when you're designing a space, which is good when you're still in the planning stage and it's easier to change things around. I don't want to plan the space for you, since you are the one who really knows what you want to achieve. But I will try, and hopefully with the help of others on the forum, to push you to explore other opportunities or ideas that you usually wouldn't have.

- Audric

Hi Mike,
Thanks .. Thanks for the link .. I will drop by to the local Barns & Noble to see if i can find this and other small garden specific books..

Hi Audric, You are right, I didn't even question why straight lines are formal.. As you said, probably straight lines are best for my yard. If I can figure out this s/w i will try to get some thing like Mike's to see how it looks ..

After playing with the s/w i think i need to determine where would we be sitting and where will the fountain be. Once i have that fixed, i guess everything else will fall in place ..
Thanks again for helping me ..
-kal

Keep in mind that it's easier to build/design hardscape in straight lines, and then soften it with curving or "overflowing" plants.

For example, these are my south-facing beds: the bed against the house is 2' deep, the fence bed is 1' deep (and yes, it isn't easy getting plants to stay "off the path"!).
{{gwi:18387}}

Here's my furthest backyard bed, east-facing and mostly shaded, but you get the idea:
{{gwi:18388}}

Wow!! That is a real transformation ..
I liked the idea of the path curving and going behind those plants..

By the way, From my pics, where would be the best place to
add a play area? I am thinking the north-West corner - so i can keep an eye from the patio or the inside window.
- But - that is the area that would get good sun and should be ideal for some plants ..

Am i thinking right here?