some thoughts...

Perhaps with other pictures of your yard it might feel different, but at this point your monumental trees (they will be) point to a Western US "moutainscape" to me, especially when you berm up the area. The evergreens especially. I'd look through photos of the western mountainscapes - Yosemite, Missoula, Rocky Mountains, etc - and see which appealed to me and which echoed your trees. Then add rock and a few alpine-hinting plants around the rocks (rock-garden bulbs esp.) and if you can't stand the space between the trees think about a wave of a single type of wildflower. I'd consider adding an additional tree or two to one of your plantings, so they create a clump. Evergreen clumps can be very beautiful, if used sparingly.

the one tree i'm uncomfortable with is the tall white barked one (birch?) in the middle of the bed. with this formulation of mountaintop, the "top" of the mountain would have a more bent, windblown tree. I don't know if birches can be shaped/pruned to be more interesting (a la bonsai) but perhaps you could do something with leaning the tree, pulling it off the vertical...dunno about this at all, just speculating. I think the growth rates of your trees will mean that the spruces dwarf everything else.

what kinds of stone are native to your area of OH?

a technical point, since you're considering mulch/compost:
You should try to add the soil now when the trees are young to berm the entire bed, rather than wait until their root systems are out in the larger space and you have to worry about smothering them with added soil depth. 6" of dirt for this whole bed is going to be a dumptruckload, isn't it?

Greenguy...your handle says it all and your love of hosta translates to a love of texture and foliage. I bet you cut the blooms off of your hosta? Think back on any garden you have admired and you will probably realize it was full of foliage with varying degrees of color and void of flowers. I love flowers (and my garden beds are full of them) but I have come to understand that the gardens with the most impact actually are colored with fantastic foliage and texture. Japanese gardens rarely have flowers. For that "cool blue" look try some of the fabulous blue ornamental grasses and I think it is difficult to create a "busy" display with ornamental grasses. Have fun and I look forward to seeing what you end up with. Vikki

Gee, I like it too. But I agree with your concern about making it too busy. It's kind of hard to tell exactly how much space your're going to have to fill, because your trees are all young and the berming will serve to take up some space (at the edges).

I can see a few clumps of ornamental grasses and something like rudbeckias or veronicas or echinicias (sp). And then quite a bit of one kind of groundcover to tie it all together. Periwinkle, for example. Don't get too many different kinds of stuff in there -- your variety comes from all your different trees.

vikki you are pretty smart - all cut but the ones i want some seed from ;~)

The guy with the new walk? I am not sure what post you are talking about. I am not sure if I would be much help unless he lives close - a have a shovel and i can use it faily well.

here is a liitle proof
{{gwi:46827}}
I thought 6 yards would do it but this is where 8 got me - it is still not as thick as i think it should be but the trees now look 'normal' and it gives me a good base to work with next year when i put a nicer mulch on top.
I never said what thge trees were - i am sure some of you know already but there are 3 heritage birch (clump form) - 1 crimson frost birch - and 4 blue spruce

I do really like most ground covers but maybe i should rethink that a bit - i think the green of a ground cover will blend to much with the grass (breaking the unity the much bed created) anyone agree?

I have no clue what i could plant (besidea a ground cover) near the blue spruce that will still look good in a couple of years - anyone have i pic or a hint

I also saw a very large area in the bed with no trees and am thinking I should maybe plant something tall or larger there.

over all i have not given it much thought yet as I had to work this a.m. and spreading 8 yards of mulch kept me pretty busy with a couple of other things thrown in today.

I may not get the rest of the mulch tomorrow due to some plans my wife made but at least I should have a bit more time to think about what i want to do in there - maybe nothing untill next spring - that should give me a lot of time to think/plan

again thanks for everyones help and interest

should i mention i may start another bed or two near this one ;~)

I keep thinking about texas blue bonnets - if that is what they are called, maybe blue lupines (i am not at all good with plant names) - ever since i saw the blue pic above.

anyone have i pic or a hint

At the rate you're moving, I will reiterate prior recommendation [mine & others]: go to the library [or bookstore] and get Adrian Bloom's Gardening With Conifers. Many answers there. You can cluster delightfully complimentary smaller conifers near your others, as well as near the deciduous birches, offering nice winter interest. You won't regret it. Promise.

Here's a suggestion for a ground cover. {{gwi:46829}}
I put Creeping Jenny around these Crepe Myrtle trees and so far I like it...guess some would say it can be invasive but I don't find it hard to control. After all, a ground cover is invasive, hence the name, yes? The more sun it gets the brighter the color is.

{{gwi:46831}}
Since taking the picture below in May, the Creeping Jenny has filled in the space nicely. You can see how bright it can look in the sun and I think it is a nice accent to the green of the surrounding plants and the lawn . The hardy Geraniums bloom only sporadically now and the "Jenny" adds a nice touch of color to this spot.
{{gwi:46833}}
Since you like blue you may want to consider a Blue Star Amsonia. That's it to the right of the Jenny in the photo above. It has a wonderful airy look and the foaliage turns a beautiful golden color in the fall. The pale blue flowers are an added bonus. Here is an overhead shot I took when it was in bloom. I would also recommend Walkers Low Catmint for a blueish flower and a greyish green leave color. I will take a picture of mine if you would like to see it. Wish my photos were better but I'm still learning the digital camera thing.
{{gwi:46835}}
Your bed looks great with the top soil. You were not kidding about knowing how to handle a shovel. Hope it was cooler for you than it was here. Today our heat index was 104!

Did anyone like it more before the mulch went in?

Oh yes, Laag! I definitely liked it more before the mulch went in; but without this little nudge from you, I would have just kept mum. The black is jarring, but it's more than that. The shape of the bed looks wrong.

It reminds me more of an amoeba now, and look at that long, thin arm.... I think it's the angle of the picture, too, that's revealing flaws which were obscured by the spruce in the pictures up above.

I hope you will take this in the spirit it's meant, Greenguy. And also, remember that I'm not a pro; so now they may bop me on the head if I'm perceiving it wrong.

Sharon

P.S. I didn't mean for you to take after Bloom in using his color constrasts. Laag explained to you better than I could the similarities that I saw. I also hope you'll slow down a bit, and go check out those books.

I have to admit that the arms of the bed don't look as nice to me now as they did before the dark mulch defined them. For some reason the curves looked bigger and broader in the original photos, and now they're looking a little skimpy to me. I also imagined more hills and mounds in that bed, something to give it a little more depth. Honestly, I think I'd create a few mounds near the center, just to give it some more depth. I like Vikki's creeping jenny, and I think I'd combine that with vinca or something very contrasty, plus something inbetween. That, plus boulders, and conifers.

Greenguy, to avoid confusion on what to plant where, think of the bed as an island and the lawn a sea. Join the evergreen trees with others to form a curved spine. Also think shoreline. Points are headlands where the rocks and smaller plants grow, and where the bed goes in, is a valley. The valley goes up to the spine, or ridge, in a gentle curve. Valleys are a good place for broad expanses of your Hostas in the lee of the spine. Also the spine shape should reflect the shape of the island. The spine can have arms but simplicity should be maintained to limit confusion.
Hope this helps in a general way. My little kitten insists on jumping up on my lap and helping me type so my post is a little disjointed. ;-)

Right now the mulch (not dirt, right?) is emphasizing a big X. I think one of the reasons that doesn't feel quite right is that it is essentially a rectangle - overly symmetric.

vikki - it was hot, maybe not a 104 but hot and humid - i drank 8 bottles of water in the about 4 hours i worked out there yesterday - raining here today

ok that picture was very misleading hte bed is not an x at all it is hard to get a feel of it from the pictures but here is one from upstairs that should help a little bit

the way the ground falls as it goes toward the sidewalk distorts what the bed really looks like in the pictures (even this one)
{{gwi:46837}}

I like creeping jenny - i took a small piece from a friend - when i say small i mean for or five leaves on one stem and a thread of root and threw it by my pond this spring an it has gone crazy

here is a current pic of my pond i put in last year - the creeping jenny this spring - it is not not up to par imo
{{gwi:46838}}

that is quite possibly the coolest fountain i have ever seen. LOVE IT.

Good grief, the trees across the street are massive!! The bed looks great from above and I like how you have made it define that corner of your property. Lucky you with the rain, wish we could get some, we need it big time. I'm guessing with the size of your yard you use a riding lawnmower? I use one also and as a word of caution...I have found that driving around my beds, especially in the curves, has taken a toll on the grass. I start mowing here in March and I mow every other day because I keep the blade at 3 1/2" to 4" high. I believe that the frequency of driving over the grass around the beds has caused the problem. Can't do a directional change around the beds. If I owned a push mower I would use it around the beds. It would help the grass and also help keep my bed trenches better defined. I agree with Susan, your hydrant fountain is fabulous. Vikki

what fountian? lol
thanks - i found it by the side of the road lol

trees across the street are at least 15 years old

I cut mine at 3 to 3 1/2 but never more then twice a week usually only once - never have had a problem lucky i guess - you don't mow when its wet do you? maybe you shouldn't cut so often - cut back on the nitrogen?

It seems to me that with the dark mulch, the bed lost much of its "unity". So that would have to be "made up" somehow, either by a changing structure --the trees themselves will change--or by a groundcover color that ties them together again, or both. I don't know what.

I would think it would help for you to make some rough sketches of the trees at more mature size. Otherwise, how will you pick the scale of the companion plantings, or even boulders, to look right several years from now? It will also be your choice as to whether you want to just plant for what things will look like a few years from now, and wait for things to fill in, or go ahead and use any part of it, including the perimeter, for any fun plantings you wish to have, such as annuals or perennials (choose those that are easy to dig up) that you can enjoy now but will move later.

They may be little now, but them's some serious conifers waitin' to "happen". When they "get big" how much space are you going to have between them?

Whatever you decide to plant should probably be "portable"... you'll have to move it, in lots less time than you think! OR, sell the place when that bed starts to look "nice".

We've been in our home 15 years now, and I am astonished at how qucikly things grow up and how BIG "insignificant" things get over time. It happens when you aren't "looking". Our south lawn and garden were FULL sun 15 yrs. ago... now they're "partial shade". And we never really were aware of the transformation until the Oriental lilies began blooming "later than usual". ;) The Hydrangea standards now provide enough shade for lawn chairs... it happens gradually, the Grand Canyon required eons...

I can't get all the photos to load with this browser, so my perceptions may be off, but in my minds eye, this bed has an opportunity contrary to what most posters have been promotting: a 'natural looking' placement of rocks and vegetation. I would fly against the natural look, using rocks to edge part of or the whole island, making it a raised bed or a series of raised beds that interact with each other in a casual way. The garden could spill out over the rock edge in a few places onto the lawn where the trees will eventually create shaded areas. Or expand toward the sunny sections to allow for more sun loving plants. In either case, you would be expanding some of the more narrow "arms" and loosening up the design, which I think was the appealing part of it when you posted the first pictures. The use of groundcovers could help anchor the soil between the rocks and cascade down to the next level. The rocks you choose could be fairly large (but manageable) boulders placed together to form a low wall, perhaps with smaller rocks stuffed in between to form a tighter edge. In the second photo, there appears to be a garden near by that has a mix of rocks in it already. Using rock walls could help tie the new bed into the rest of the yard. Or you could use stacked flat rocks much as you have incorporated in you fountain. You could even mix them up. The effect would be to normalize the hieght of you trees (getting rid of the mulch volcano look), allowing you to fill in the bed with better soil (deeper root zones that drain), creating better growing conditions for the herbacous plants you introduce. And the rock walls would have winter interest. Your biggest problem as a raised bed will be the way you aproach cutting the lawn around it. If you use a riding mower, you may want to experiment with cutting around the walls before you fill in with the dirt, as sometimes you just can't get into those curves if they are too tight. I can't believe that Jugglerguy hasn't suggested this :)

It was suggested that I read this thread. Now that I've read it, my question is: is Greenguy still around and what has he done with this? I'm just dying to know.

I'm curious too.

I am still here lurk mostly
the bed looks worse then in the pictures right now
the shape is close to the same maybe a bit larger by some of the trees but i cut the bed edge in with a gas powered bed shaper i rented from home depot and while i had it i cut a new bed in the backl yard and all of my other existing beds.

So far I have planted nothing new but i am looking for a replacement for the one tree and probably two - they were the first ones planted and they were to low and choke in the 'clay pots' with to much water

i am at work now but will try to snap a pic or two when i get home
looked at a lot of books over the winter but would still welcome help

GreenGuy, I posted this last September in a different thread, but I waited (probably too long) to post it here since I was afraid it would be too close to "throwing around plant names." I have Bloom's Winter Garden Glory book and tend to forget what a riot of color he has during the growing season.

HoneyMI's landscape is, I think, a lot closer to what you are looking for. It uses a lot of hostas, is more subdued, and uses a more japanese style. She also has a lot of color in the Fall.

Sharon

--

"Your landscape is really nice, HoneyMI. I've admired it before and was going to suggest it to GreenGuy as a possibility for the thread on his Front Bed. The lilies only bloom for about 2 weeks, though; don't they?"

Here is a link that might be useful: HoneyMI's Webshots (click on Garden Photos)

As far as what looks good with the conifers my answer would be additional conifers and heathers. These may need to be yanked out as the years go by and the bed becomes more shaded but then you can fill it with Hostas. ;)

I think that Honey's pics are stunning but I'd like to see some taller plants inbetween the very tall trees and very low groundcovers. That is just my preference, NOT a criticism. If I was a Hosta fanatic I'd stuff as many in as possible too. I'm assuming GreenGuy's bed is too sunny at the moment.

My thoughts would be that you need some large shrubs/understory trees and then smaller shrubs and then perennials and ground covers. I tend to like a more naturalistic type of landscape when one has room. Like the concept mentioned of Rocky Mountains. Love boulders.

I think your bed is as big as my entire yard. Jealous. I see houses when I look out my windows and many with bad landscaping.

Sharon
thanks you are right
I have thought about posting a new thread about this bed but i have not made up my mind yet. Like i said i have not done much of anything yet but it is now a good time to start planting or get ready to plant.

I also saw where you posted this is one of the best posts that were left - I would also say thanks but it is only a good thread due to all of the great posts from people like you so again i say thanks to you ;~)

also thanks buy or sell, the bed is not that large the one i cut in the back yard is at least three times as large. I don't think I want to overplant then pull stuff out I am patient and can think of other things to do with the money but I do know where you are coming from and have thought about it many times.

I don't know if anyone has any interest in this or not
but here it is.......
new edge cut in a few small plants and fresh mulch
{{gwi:46839}}

also
{{gwi:46840}}

i wish i could movbe that lone spruce closer to the house and to the left but it is to large now so i am going to live with it there

Wow, how many yards of mulch is that?
Patty

This has been a cool thread, and I learned a lot.

The obvious thing to do with the lone spruce is to widen the narrow island to include it, but there must be some reason you didn't. I guess then the beds would be too close together.

Am I the only one who liked the area better without the new narrow island to the right?

If asked, I'd vote to connect the two beds, include the loner, and watch as your forest grows. I very much like the trees you have selected, and they are going to fill out beautifully.

Thanks again for the thread.

So, GreenGuy. Do you have an update on your bed?

This was the first time the idea of negative space ever really made sense to me, so I can't let this thread drop off into the ether. It is simply too valuable to lose.

Sharon

I have been watching from the shadows, and have been very interested in this thread. NOW that I am up to SPeed, GREEN GUY PLEASE SHOW US THE "FINAL " PRODUCT :)

Wow
I can't believe this thread is this old and still getting interest.

I really have not done that much with it. I planted a few things and gave it a nicer layer of mulch last year and this year i have not had any time to do anything with it at all. The only thing i have done is keep the weeds out.

some of the plants have grown a lot some not as much as i would have liked/thought.

It doesn't look great right now from the lack of care and being this late in the season but i will try and get a picture of it and post it.

It will be great to get some feedback on it as i plan to do more work on it.......when i can

I thought i would put up a pic from today - maybe i'll get one from a similar angle as the others if anyone want to see it

the only thing i plan to do to this bed this year is start limbing the trees up a bit - i have been putting it off because i like the privacy and i think they grow faster with the lower branches

not exactly what i wanted but pretty happy with it

{{gwi:46841}}

one from the street
{{gwi:46842}}

greenguy, I haven't seen this posted on the hosta forum! LOL! Great job, I love it! Mary

That looks fabulous. It will look even better once the birch are limbed up. Nice of you to come back with progress pics. (I wish more posters would do that.)

I wouldn't limb up those trees if you like the privacy. I'd feel the same way about the privacy. They will limb themselves up in time.

greenguy~I love your beds, did you include the lone spruce in the bed on the right? What a difference a few years make.

I hope you don't ever limb up the spruce. I also love the rock over by the house. Some of my favorite plants are rocks (j/k), but I think you know what I mean! :0)

Great job GreenGuy. The trees look so healthy. I wonder how you edged? Did you dig in a ditch around the bed or are you having to use the weedeater all the time?
Something sprawling and close to the ground would be nice to tie the whole bed to the lawn and if you have room maybe a winter holly or a yellow or red twig dogwood.

I know what you mean about the birch - its nice to look at their trunks. Well you will figure it out.
It sure turned out very nicely
A

thanks everyone

i have not done anything to the bed since the pics.

i would never limb up the pines only the birch - i will probably just start with a couple of the lowest branches

i rented a bed edger this spring before i mulched and did the whole yard in less then 3 hours (and that was taking my time)

i have thought about adding a ground cover but the birch roots are thich and i have not found the right thing yet.

i do have a couple of hostas planted in there because i did not have anywhere else to put them at the time and i was interested to see how they would do. they will peobablu move out at some point.

I went to a native plant nursery and bought kinnick kinnick as a groundcover. Well I don't know if that's exactly how you spell it or say it, but it is also called bearberry, and has the scientific name Uva ursi. It is doing pretty well in my forest bed. It trails quite a bit but doesn't root everywhere so it can spread quite far from it's home base. You can probably root it in more places by layering, which I have not tried yet. I don't know if you would ever be able to find it in a nursery. I am lucky to have this place right near me, I have found several unusual plants there that have done very well for me. I know kinnick-kinnick grows in the midwest, I have seen it in the woods up north in MI. It is thriving in my urban SE PA yard which surprised the heck out of me.

Like lpink, I'm finding bearberry (Arctostaphylos Uva Ursi) a very satisfactory ground cover here in the upper Midwest. And I didn't have to scour the nurseries for native plants. It was a hot item at Wal-Mart's seasonal parking lot garden center. Was definitely an impulse buy; just wish my impulse had been to purchase more than two of them.

just looking at this to compare how it looked when new

I am going to try and get another shot this year

Can't wait to see it!

Me too! When I did a search on bed shapes, your post popped up and lead me to this site. I immediately fell in love with your beds and woodland setting. I tried doing the mower cut to outline one of my beds, but didn't come out as nice as yours. Your post was inspiring to me!

Greenguy, since you just stopped in here recently, I was wondering if you would answer a question when you come back :) In your original post you mentioned you used Round-up with tracking dye to kill the grass. I have wanted to do the same thing, but was worried that the RU would be bad for incoming plants, especially if planted in the same season - which is what I want to do: kill grass now, plant as soon as possible, with as little back-ache as possible. So my question is: did you have any trouble with RoundUp remnants causing damage?

Also, FWIW, I think the earlier idea of putting some boulders is a really good one - I think it would add some character and possibly give you ideas for some additional plantings.

Thanks for sharing your photos!
Janet

I have not had time to take a picture yet but i will soon even without mulching then hopfully i'll get one after mulching too

Janet, roundup will not hurt new plants once it is dry on the plants you spray. I am pretty sure i sprayed this bed in fall, waited a week and sprayed anything that was left alive and spread mulch. I am pretty sure i did not plant anything until the next spring - only because i didn't know what i was going to plant.

I have sprayed other beds and mulched the same day then planet the next and still other beds i have sprayed planted (high) and them mulched. there is no problem with roundup it does not effect the soil it only works through the foliage. The biggest concern it making sure you get everything sprayed, which can be hard in larger areas and making sure it dies which would be the only reason i see to wait

THanks for the info!
J.

bump ... 2005 and still going strong.. go figure

ken

Bumping in hopes of some updated photos - what a nice thread. And such a beautiful home too!

the bed is a complete mess and with the rain it will probably be awhile before it looks good. it is bigger then before and i connected the two beds together for mowing reasons (liked it better as two but it just was a lot easier with cutting)

I would love to see new pics, but I can certainly understand "complete mess." Got a lot of it around here....

it was only raining this morning so i took a couple of pics
the bed is a total mess but it will give everyone an idea of how the trees have grown

lets see if i remember to post pics :~)

the lighter colored mulch is new and now connects the two beds - i will put a new edge in and lay down fresh mulch as soon as the weather permits and time
{{gwi:46843}}

this will give a better idea on the size of the trees now - i am 6'2" and they are well over twice my height now - probably avg 20' the river birch are way more (every year i think about limbing up the birch and this year i proabably will, at least a little)
{{gwi:46844}}

and i have to get a hosta pic in (man look at the grass :~( )
{{gwi:46845}}

i'll try to post some more after i clean it all up and mulch - but that will be a while from now