Negotiate, Negotiate, Negotiate! Simply tell them it is too much-point out the cost of catching up on their past require shots and worming. We'll give you $75 right now.

If they don't budge--point out they they are being kept in less than desirable accommodations. We would love to give you $75 right now.

Still don't budge--point out the fact they seem not to have a continuous supply of quality hay and they appear not to have a proper water supply. Point out that you can get them a auctions in the spring for about $25 each and that it may be best for you to WAITE until spring so you can be fully prepared for the task of properly caring for any goats you get. But we would be willing to take these goats off your hands now for $75 for the both of them.

If they don't budge then give them your e-mail address (or phone # if your comfortable with that) telling them if they change their minds give us a call. Then walk away.

Most people would not buy a goat kept in those conditions and they will probably call you within a week. There is a reason that they are trying to sell them in the middle of winter-in the game of Negotiation they call that motivation-definitely a plus for you getting them at the price of $75. Stay firm on the price and they'll come around.

Keep us posted on how things go.

Seramas, Thankyou for the advice. I called her and explained the cost. Now we will wait to hear from her.
Jenny p.s. I will keep you posted

What shots are going to run $170 for the two goats? I don't think there are any routine goat vaccines that you can't get on line through Jeffers. The vet's price seems more unreasonable than the price of the goats. Tom

When I brought my goats I learned how to do my own shots. granted it gave me the freaking heebie jeebies but I did it. Not hard at all.

Tell them to get the vet check, worming and all their shots then you will pay their asking price.
Seramas the next time I go to buy a used car off the lot can I get you to go along with me???

islandmanmitch, Yes. I love to Negotiate, Negotiate, Negotiate! I'll even Negotiate for anything that's over $20 bucks at K-Mart. I use to have a small resort at Gun Lake with 10 small cottages and I got all my supplies at K-Mart for a discount of 20% on soft goods and 25% on hard goods (micro waves, gas grills, toasters,....) It would save me as much as $2000 a season.

The key of Negotiate, Negotiate, Negotiate at stores or Department Stores is ask for a discount and when the clerk says they can't do that. Then ask them if they would get someone that can. Rarely walk out paying full price!!!

The vet visit is 39 a piece and then they need two shots each and a check for parsites also cl. Thanks jenny
P.S She came back at $100. I stood firm at $75. I have yet to hear back from her

You make no mention of the condition of the goats. Are they skinny? Sickly looking? Heads down? If so you should be calling the humane society or similar group in your town & report abuse.

They could get 75 EACH at market, easy. If someone approached me and offered me 75 for TWO goats, I wouldnt sell them as my concern would be for the goats, I'd be wondering if the buyer could even afford food for them!

Depending on circumstances & type of care, goats don't need worming or shots. Most do, because of the manner in which they are housed & pastured, but it's not necessary in all management schemes & certainly doesn't qualify for abuse.
A dollhouse can actually can make a nice shelter, (and many do use them!)and if they weren't getting hay I would imagine they would have an impacted rumen fairly quickly & have died by now.
Having no water does concern me, however it could have been out of sight, so I would go back & look again to see. 1. if they did have water, and 2. to see if it was clean water.

I'd like to hear more details on the condition of the goats before agreeing they are abused.

The vet's quote is outrageous, too. Call Jeffers livestock, Hoeggers goat supply, or Caprine Supply & order the vacs(if you feel you need them), get the needles & syringes, and do it yourself. It's extremely easy to do.

Personally I'd have the blood tested for diseases before bringing them onto my property, but that is just me. If he's going to pull blood, why not have him test for the big 3? -CLA(CL), CAE, & Johne's. Do the goats have lumps? Why does he only want to test for CL?

This you can also do yourself, for less than $20.00 a goat, much cheaper than the vet will be.

BrendaSue

What vaccinations do goats generally need? And what worming products?

I give my goats CDT. It's clostridium perfringens and tetanus. Called Goat Vac CD-T
Unvaccinated goats get 1 shot then repeat the shot 3-4 weeks later. After that it's given as a booster shot yearly.
The cost is $7-8 a bottle and the bottle holds 10 doses. Tractor supply and many feed stores carry it.
If you don't want to give the shots look around for a farm vet. The vet you called is over pricing...IMO.

Call your local cooperative extension service, they know everything and can doubtlessly tell you what diseases are problems for goats and sheep in your area and how much you can expect to pay for the vaccinations.

As Backlanelady stated CD/T is the generally given vaccine, most minimally vaccinate using that. Barvac is what I use as it normally doesn't leave a lump (abscess).

You can vaccinate for many things. Pneaumonia, Hoofrot, Lepto, etc. Also there is a CLA (CL) vaccine due to come on the market this year, but they've been saying that for several years now. It's in the field being tested now. There are no vaccines forJohne's and CAE, nor none in the forseable future.

Worming products used vary greatly from local to local, as worms have become resistent to most wormers in goats. If your goats are drylotted, they literally have no worms to speak of. Check their lower eyelids using the FAMACHA method, dark pink is good, white means the goat is anemic & must be treated ASAP for blood sucking worms. Levemesole, Ivermec(tin), or Cydectin can be used as needed(Use ORALLY!). Cydectin is considered the last choice wormer, meaning it is the producers last choice of worming medications as there are no more on the market to deal with wormer resistence in goats. Safeguard (orally at triple dose due to resistence)can be used once a year for tapeworms, these are the only worms visible to the naked eye.

IMO the Cooperative Extention Service is a wonderful service, and I have used it for issues such as what will grow for our pastures, pasture nutrients, etc. IMO they are not a good source for diseases & vaccination prices.

Instead, you would be better off to find a local breeder, and ask questions of them. Most are more than willing to answer questions & they love to talk goats.

Here is a website for excellent goat related information:

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/articlesMain.html

Keep in mind they are located in TX, the heart of goat country. Issues in TX & down south are not the same as issues up north, so depending on your locale much of the information may not apply.

Again, your best bet would be to find a breeder nearby & ask them what is working in your area.

Brendasue

Has anyone used tobacco leaves? Years ago (late 50's early 60's) when I had my goats I used Tobacco leaves once every two months and never had one case of worms. About 1 ounce of dried tobacco leaves per adult goat. My Grandma used it for her goats and sheep and she learned about it from an 'Old Goat Herder' Joe from the good state of Tennessee.

Niccotene was one of the oldest pesticides, and I'm sure that the goats just love to eat it. Sounds like an idea that would work very effectively, two questions 1) do you use dried cured tobacco or tobacco that is just dried (or does it not matter)? and 2) do you have to wait a while before using the milk, or does it not pick up the flavor due to the small quantities needed. Tobacco is very easy to grow and at 6 oz. dry weight per goat per year I'll bet most people could grow their own. I think there are laws in some states about growing tobacco on your land in any quantities, but I could be thinking cotton, for those interested you can get about 250 Nicotiana sylvestris from SSE for $2.75, it carries the active ingredient, not sure if you would want to smoke it, but it smells heavenly.

Not one case of worms is impressive, glad to hear that something so affordable works so well.

Any cruelity case should be reported to the MSPCA. If you choose to negociate with them that's fine but if you end up not "rescuing" them, they should be reported for possible cruelty. Let the experts step in and they will give them a choice take care of them or they will take them. You need to do this for the safety and well being of the animal. Explain to the animal control what you have been trying to do.

I don't vaccinate my goats for anything, actually-- I know quite a few big fancy breeders who want nothing to do with vaccinations. Worming is necessary if you have them on pasture, but you certainly don't need a vet if you're going to give them wormer. Just go get a tube of it, learn the doses for goats (which if I'm not mistaken is five times the rate per pound for cattle or horses) and squirt it down their throats. If you go off taking goats to a vet, you're going to have a really expensive set of pets on your hands. You need to learn to do most of it yourself. Not to mention, most vets don't know squat about goats. I'd say, pay her $100, worm them yourself, skip the vet & shots for now, and make sure they have really good hay, clean water, and goat minerals... then see how they seem to be doing.

Vaccines work, very very very well, and have very very very few side effects. If your animals are isolated from conspecifics you don;t have to worry about it, but if they get exposed you can loose large portions of your herd, vaccines are a risk management precaution.

I disagree. On the contrary, there's pretty much no evidence that goat vaccines are of any use. CL: There's already a vaccine on the market (has been for years) and even the manufacturer admits it's pretty much useless, because CL is a disease much like the flu with different strains. You CAN get an autogenous vaccine made (I think the company is PL labs or something like that) but it costs $300. That is actually very effective. But CL isn't a disease that really kills goats very often, anyway, it's more of a nuisance. I know of no effective pneumonia vaccine either because pneumonia is frequently an opportunistic infection of the lungs caused by numerous organisms. I've never had a case of pneumonia in my goats in five years, despite all kinds of crazy buying, selling and trading of goats.... that's because my goats are healthy. There's no vaccine for Johnnes. There's no vaccine for CAE. There's no vaccine for listeriosis (I don't think?) or for goat polio. Those are all the big killers of goats, except , of course, for the clostidium (sp?) caused by overeating. The CDT vaccine is ineffective, with only minimal protection offered, and that particular vaccine DOES have a history of causing adverse reactions in goats. Way smarter to have the C&D anti-toxin on hand in the event your goat breaks into the grain bin (along with baking soda, etc). Really, I know of two big breeders, with herds over 200 , who do not vaccinate their goats for anything. I know of one large 70-goat dairy that doesn't vaccinate as well.

Human vaccines are far safer and more effective (and some of those are really iffy, too).

Also, I recommend anyone getting into goats to read up on the Fias Co Farms website, one of the best Internet sources of information on goat health. Also the Yahoo Goats group is really great. (Goats-101).

Here is a link that might be useful: Fias Co Farm vaccination page

KristenMarie, I agree with everything you posted except the CLA Vaccine, the one on the market currently is for SHEEP, not goats, and yes the manufacturer recognizes it doesn't work on goats well. The goat vaccine is just getting to the market sometime soon. Agreed it is not a deadly disease unless it is internal & even then only by the location. It is however considered zoonotic though there are few cases documented in humans.

The only adverse effects of the CD/T I've heard of is the abscess lumps, which if occur go away within a years time. We use Barvac = no lumps. It is the only vaccine we give, and we always have ephiphrine on hand in case of an allergic reaction, like you can get with any newly dispensed drug. Reactions are not common.

No, there is no vaccine for Listeriosis or polio. If the animals are fed correctly these are not an issue.

Goats do not need vaccinations, Kristenmarie has attested to that. Vaccinations are the owners choice and if an owner chooses not to use them, it is not abuse. Plus, one must remember diseases like Chlamidia, pinkeye etc. have to be present before they can be contracted. Again, one can vaccinate for many things, or not. We all have to vaccinate for rabies & even so our dogs can still contract rabies after vaccination, so I agree there are no guarantees.

Brendasue

After doing some research I have to agree, I was wrong before, not in general, but it looks like a lot of goat vaccines are really sheep vaccines and do not work well on goats.

pneumonia being opportunistic and caused by multiple organisms does not make it unvacinatable, the octavalent pneumococci pneumonia vaccine for humans is highly effective, the vaccines for goats just happen to suck. You will have to forgive me, I deal a lot with vaccine deniers and the Jenny McCarthy Crowd and that has made me a jumpy reactionary when anyone says anything bad about this branch of medicine that has saved billions of human lives.

kristenmarie- if you want to discuss those "iffy" ones I would encourage you to start a thread in the hot topics forum, I'm sure I would have a lot to say on the issue, I've done a lot of research.

That's because sheep & goats have been grouped together as a single species for a long time. Owners of goats know they have different needs and are a species of their own. To this day I still find many agricultural websites grouping them together. And yes, many meds are used off label whether they be made for sheep, cows, pigs, or even pigeons.

This is why I always recommend newbies to check with seasoned breeders in their area for what works best.
BrendaSue

I tried going the local extension route and they were of no help to me. They suggested a local breeder and that is where I got my info. Not that it makes me an expert or anything but she told me how to do a lot of things. I gave my goats the CD&T vaccine and a vitamin B shot. Also I rubbed the injection site really well and they never developed a lump. If it did not do anything for the goats it sure made me feel better. LOL