From the US Department of Labor, link below:

In February 2004, different strains of avian flu were detected among several flocks of birds in the U.S. and state officials ordered the destruction of hundreds of thousands of birds. The avian influenza strain found in Delaware was (H7N2), in Pennsylvania the strain was (H2N2), and the (H5N2) strain was found in Texas. The strain found in Texas has been determined to be "highly pathogenic" to birds. However, the strain of avian influenza in Texas is not the same as the strain that is affecting Asia.1 There does not appear to be any connection between the illness in the flocks on the East Coast and the flock in Texas. Wild birds are the natural hosts for the virus. Avian flu viruses circulate among birds worldwide and are highly contagious among birds. It is also important to note that the United States annually imports an estimated 20,000 birds from countries with current avian influenza outbreaks, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

Backyard free range chickens are at risk because they can't be isolated from wild birds. The talk isn't hype, there are serious economic losses associated with the virus for commercial growers. Some states make strenuous efforts to control it, while others are lackadaisical about it. At farmers' markets in New Jersey, for example, home-grown chickens often test positive - when they're tested - but they aren't tested often and not much is done about these backyard birds being redistributed at these markets.

Avian flu is affecting humans because (from the same link):

Influenza viruses also change or mutate over time. "Scientists know that the avian and human influenza viruses can exchange genes when a person is simultaneously infected with viruses from both the common human influenza virus and the avian type. This process of gene swapping inside the human body can give rise to a completely new subtype of the influenza virus to which few, if any, humans would have any natural immunity...

The article makes it clear that the human deaths in Asia are caused by a different strain than what we have here, but there's no reason why that strain can't show up here sooner or later.

Here is a link that might be useful: Protecting Workers Against Avian Flu

I do not work in the poultry business but I met a guy last year who did. He had to move to my business because he had to destroy all of his 3 million chickens. He was moving about a million chickens per month, but after that his entire business was gone. If he had to do it, surely the backyard egg producers will have to go. This new strain is much more important to stop than the other one.

If you need to get shocked into getting serious about the flu, find an old cemetery and look at how many graves were marked 1918. Then look at the ages of the victims. Most were under 40 years old.

not sure what strain the 1918 flu was, but any flu can be dangerous.
i remember my dad, as a young man, in farragut, iowa, telling of sitting in his window, watching funeral processions, one after the other. while his young wife and baby daughter lay sick.Dad had heard that fried onions would pull out infections, so--he fried onions, put them on a towel on her chest.But, being young, scared, and inexperienced at cooking, he forgot what hot grease can do to the skin. when he removed the compress, mom has a chest sized blister 2" high!! dr said it drew poision into the blister, and probably saved her life. dad told this for the next 56 years.

So how can we tell if our chickens are infected?

Chickens going off feed and/or a drop in egg production are a couple signs, but they're variable and you really need more information than that to make a dignosis. If chickens are ill, asking a vet for advice or guidance is probably preferable to attempting home remedies to make the chicken feel better.

Biosecurity is key, check out the following link. Avoid trading live birds - I know that's a very common practice among hobbiests, but it's a surefire way to introduce the virus to a clean flock. In other livestock species, for example sheep and goats, producers will often have a "closed flock", and you can do the same thing with chickens.

That means they bring in as few new breeding animals as humanly possible and keep them in quarantine for at least 60 days to test, watch and/or treat for disease or parasites before introducing the new arrivals to the main flock. They may also ask that you not wear your own muck boots on their property or just tell you straight out that visitors aren't welcome in their facilities.

If that all seems like too much trouble, well that's why the flu virus travels from one hobby flock to another so easily.

Here is a link that might be useful: UC Davis Veterinary Medicine Extension: Avian Influenza

Great info here on a very scary prospect. I just watched a news story last night that said they were expecting the bird flu to become a worldwide pandemic.

They have suspected for quite some time that the bird flu would make the leap to human hosts, and now it has. So in some sense we've had some warning the last couple of years. What we all can do is keep our home biosecurity as tight as possible and watch our flocks closely for illness. Your personal hygiene is very important as well, lots of biorganisms are stopped by proper handwashing, for example.

Velvet ~:>

Hi
This may seem a dumb question, but what about eating chicken? Would the chicken (before it is cooked) have the flu virus on or in it? I have to buy supermarket chicken, but for Christmas, I usually buy a goose from Pennsylvania. Would that be an issue?
Thanks
Pat

A chicken before it's cooked may have the virus in it or on it because the virus can be transmitted via saliva, nasal discharge or feces. If the carcass was handled carelessly during processing, the surfaces could be contaminated not just by the flu virus, but also by salmonella, E coli, and other foodbourne pathogens that are naturally present in healthy birds.

Raw foods of animal origin are the most common culprit among the estimated 76 million cases of foodborne illnesses that occur in the US every year. (See the CDC link below, most cases are mild, but CDC estimates that there are 325,000 hospitalizations and 5,000 deaths annually due to foodbourne illness.)

In a nutshell, surfaces like counter tops, cutting boards, knives, and other utensils must never be cross-contaminated by raw chicken. Spills shouldn't be casually wiped up with a sponge tossed back in the sink. As Velvet already pointed out, keeping hands clean is imperative.

Regarding avian flu, WHO (the World Health Organization) recommends that chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys and guinea-fowl from flocks in which one or more birds are sick should never be slaughtered for consumption, using hot water for scalding during processing, and cooking to a minimum 70C (160F) internal temperature to render meat and eggs safe for human consumption, 165F for ground poultry meat. The virus can reside both on the shells and inside eggs.

Here is a link that might be useful: Foodborne Illness

Last night while listening to the radio I heard Dr. Marc K. Siegel talk about the "epidemic of fear" that we are being hit with. I agree we should all be well informed and have a plan but all the media speculation is focusing on worst case scenarios.

One important point he brought up about the spanish flu of 1918 was that most of the victims who died actually died from secondary infections such as phenomena which today we have a vaccine for. He also stated that most of our human flu strains originated from avian flu's so this is nothing new. I found his information to be quite calming in contrast to the stuff we are seeing in the media. He was not advocating sticking your head in the sand by any means but just encouraging people to not buy into all the hype.

He also stated the SARs scare last year which you don't hear about anymore was discovered not to be as contagious as scientist initially thought but the media evidently didn't care to report that to the general public.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dr.'s website

I'm just reading a great book about the 1918 flu right now, see the link. It delves a bit too deep (for my tastes) into the state of medical schools, the major medical players in the country at that time, how WWI contributed to the rampant spread by housing thousands of soldiers into cramped quarters and ultimate organization of a stronger Public Health alert agency to handle such a widespread outbreak.
It also covers in depth how the tricky little flu viruses replicate, how they mutate, and how they ovewhelm our immune systems.

My grandfather was a newly graduated MD in those years and worked feverishly to keep his patients alive in rural MN. He only lost one out of hundreds and, according to my Mom, that was because "the damn fool wouldn't stay in bed as Doc insisted." Many were farmers and with chores that wouldn't wait, so I suppose it was tough to stay down for a week or more.

I think 3/4 of what we are inundated with on daily news today is hype- they've got to make it exciting and alarming to keep the viewers interested.

If you are interested in such things, I recommend the book.

Here is a link that might be useful: 1918 Influenza book

I went to Dr. Siegel's web site but just found reviews of his writing, not the actual writings. So I'll make comments base on those and sullibcorbit's posting.

The avian flu has been in the public health publications for a few years but recently the news media has discovered it. And with the need to give headlines with no substance to follow the past month's news casts have been beating the issue to death.

First remember that the flu is a respiratory illness; there is no such thing as the stomach flu. Many human flus have come from fowl but the danger with this strain is that it hasn't entered the human population before and so we have no immunity and there is no vaccine specific for a human to human variation. With all that said there has not been a confirmed human to human case and may never be. But then again ...

With the current human cases as with the Spanish Flu of 1918 most of the deaths were typified with "consoladed lungs". One of the groups hit hardest with high death rates were healthy young adults. Many also died of secondary pneumonia. There is a vaccine only for one variety, pneumococcus. There are many bacteria that cause pneumonia. I was a respiratory therapist in another life and I know that many with pneumonia are very ill and take lots of supportive care for survival. This at times would include having the patient on a ventilator. I don't know about your communities but for our 80,000 or so on this island we have a 30 bed hospital and 2 ventilators. The fact is that we have the technology but not the staff, supplies and equipment to give treatment to all in a pandemic. There are antiviral drugs that may help lessen the severity of the illness but check with your local public health officials and see if they have an adequate stock of those meds - or any.

Even with all that this avian flu may not become a human pandemic. But flu pandemics occur on a regular basis, I think the last one was in the 50's or early 60's. So if not this strain another will surface and affect us all. Like everyone else I have no solutions. But we need to be realistic, don't panic and don't be apathetic. It may be an interesting ride. Tom

I've been a meat wholesaler, importer, exporter, and distributor for twenty years and my step-father and his father before him were meat packers. We've had federally (rather than state) USDA-inspected facilities for well over 50 years between us. I think it's safe to say, and hundreds of other smaller processors and consumer-interest groups would agree with me, that USDA's principal mission to serve the public interest in maintaining a high level of food safety and wholesomeness has been abandoned in favor of protecting the financial interests of the largest packers or the industry at large.

What a lot of people (who aren't farmers) don't realize about USDA is that its other mission is economic development and protection of the economic security of various agricultural sectors and markets. Over the past decade or so, USDA's policies have become extraordinarily lop-sided in favor of economic security vs biosecurity, and nothing epitomizes that better than their conduct in managing (or mismanaging) mad cow testing, reporting, and regulations.

Ann Venneman, the previous director of USDA, did a masterful job of diminishing public fears over the Washington state 'mad cow', and to her credit, beef consumption actually rose rather than falling off after that. Unfortunately she operated on the principle that "There's a sucker born every minute" and succeeded. The data and testimony is out there and has been published in the mainstream press and elsewhere to prove that USDA's track record has been worse than just dismal with regard to mad cow. I don't expect much better from them on avian flu.

The majority of consumers are glad to hear phrases like "epidemic of fear", "hype", and "media frenzy" coming from "experts" because it gives them permission to dismiss any concerns coming from consumer-interest groups, reliable investigative reporters, and industry insiders with a genuine concern for the public's welfare. The fact is, without these "alarmists", the public would be kept in the dark.

This Dr. Siegel is selling his book, columns, and television appearances based on his presumption (a red herring I think) that the world is "beset by hype and hysteria" when, in fact, that's not true at all. What hysteria? Avian flu is legitimate news and the coverage I've seen isn't alarmist. He's right on target with some of his statements about exploitative politicians and the media in general, but I don't think they apply to the regulatory shenanigans that go on in the meat industry. If anything, it's the industry-sponsored and government-approved "don't worry, be happy" pap that's misleading.

Thanks to all for the links provided, I have been doing lots of reading! I can see now that Avian flu has the potential to be everything they say it can be....so the best I can do is wait and watch, and stay as clean and careful as possible, if I am going to keep my chickens.

One more question, if I may: Am I correct in assuming the major threat to be the migration of wild birds? If so ...is there a web site where I can go to see if my area geographically is located in a major flyaway zone?

I have read that the Dutch are thinking about making it mandatory to keep chickens indoors until the migration time is past. Just wondering if they are on the right track....

Personally, I think it's mostly hype, designed to distract us from the REAL problems this country is facing, post-Katrina...

One more question, if I may: Am I correct in assuming the major threat to be the migration of wild birds? If so ...is there a web site where I can go to see if my area geographically is located in a major flyaway zone?

You could ask at birdwatching sites - or at the birding forum here at GW. But avian flu isn't new, it's probably been around for as long as birds have, and there may be resident species carrying it even if you're not on a migration route. There are few places in North America where people live that don't have migrating birds passing through.

The most reasonable precautions are to not keep ill birds around, enforce sanitary precautions if an ill bird does turn up, avoid trading live birds, never rescue sickly birds you see at markets or in someone's backyard, cook poultry and eggs to 160-165F internal temperature, keep hands and clothing clean, and above all else, stay away from poultry if you have the human flu or other respiratory illness.

These are essentially the same precautions you'd take against salmonella and other pathogens when you handle any kind of livestock or raw meat.

Am sure that there is some risk of the virus mutating and causing a problem here. As far as I am concerned this is being hyped by an administration that is in deep trouble in the polls and needs a diversion. That tactic has been used before by them.

Thank you, everyone, for all the information. We can never be TOO informed but I am certainly NOT going to panic nor spend a huge amount of time worrying about this avian flu
hype. Life is too short! Just use accepted precautions and move on.

Bless you all,
Judy

I am sure that there is something to the bird flu passing to humans, I know that I would be devestated if it somehow hit my family in a fatal way. But I am sure also that there is a lot of hype. News media is all about the dollar and what headlines and hysteria can sell.

I do not equate my having chickens in my backyard to having 3 million birds, I don't make my living on them, but our eggs and chicken meat make for huge part of my family's diet. Having chickens is a very large part of our lifestyle. In my mind, they are a security blanket. I know that sounds silly but I guess you would have to know where I am coming from to fully understand. Anyway given all this, I am terrified of having my chickens taken from me and destroyed, without true cause. A couple of years ago, we had people coming around and testing everyones flocks, that was before I had chickens. But I remember that the kids who were showing chickens all had their birds tested and they didn't find any deseased birds, were allowed to show away from the regular show grounds, but were not allowed to sell their birds, and all the complete flocks were destroyed after the show. It made me sick and furious.

I live in a county that has an extremely high commercial poultry farm population. I feel that this is the real reason for this kind of action. I can appreciate the original thoughts behind this but feel that this type of action often feeds the frenzie.

My fear is that this sort of thing is going to affect the small family farm operations in the long run. I predict that the commercial industry is going to end up getting laws passed to keep families and individuals from having their own backyard flocks. Then next we will not be aloud to keep one or two or 10 cows. It will be rights exclusive to the commerical operations. This truly frightens me, and I don't want to live here in this country if that should happen.

Quite often it is the practices at these commercial operations that lead to devestating problems anyway, e-coli(cow lot grainfed cows with poor sanitation in butcher plants), mad cow (feeding downer cow by-products to cows)and all sorts of bird illnesses that thrive in the 1 ft or more deep chicken litter that build up until those birds are ready to butcher, approx every 6 weeks. These are signs that systems need to be rethought, but it will be the country family that pays.

I have decided to drastically downsize my flock to just a few birds so that I might be able to build up again after all this passes. I would rather sell and/or butcher most of my flock now than lose everything later. I still hope for the best.

The cases of avian flu infecting humans in Asia have nothing to do with 3 million bird commercial operations. The deaths have often been related to rural dwellers processing their own chickens and using inadequate sanitary precautions. I agree that commercial growers will use this information to regulate or limit backyard flocks, but I don't think that's justifiable because backyard flocks haven't been shown to infect commercial flocks that I know of.

If a strain shows up that's infectious human-to-human, then that changes everything for everyone.

I think that keeping hundreds of thousands of small operations scattered thoughout the country raising beef and dairy cattles, sheep, goats, pigs, poultry, etc... is the most desirable scenario in terms of national security vs a widespread natural disaster or war. That was the original thinking behind the dairy subsidies and protectionist policies - to keep a national herd going strong in the interest of self-sufficiency. Unfortunately those concepts have been abandonded, largely with the help of consumers who think meat comes from supermarkets, and that lower prices are automatically more desirable. The fact that they're getting less quality doesn't matter so much - they (consumers) adjust their expectations downward constantly.

As far as rethinking factory farms, I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately the rethinking is materializing as irradiated food products that still contain fecal material and pathogens, but it's been declared 'wholesome' by USDA because the bacteria, virus, and parasite DNA is deactivated and can't multiply. Disgusting.

One reason I am not concerned about my own flock.
We live in an area very hostile to farm birds.
Hawks, Cougars, etc. all want them for dinner.
Because of this, we have chicken netting over the top of the outside run area. No wild birds can get in to mingle with our flock.
Tom

btw. do you ever notice when something like this happens, people always try to blame others just saying it's hype?
So far, I heard people blame the media, blame the current administration, what next? Willie Nelson?
Look, it just could be emotions. Every one of these people are probably scared. Life is precious.
I'm not worried about it, but I'm also not gonna blame anyone either.
Someone even slammed someone else, then said "bless you all".
No thanks, if negativity is a blessing, I can do without it thanks.

This doesn't really have to do with "bird flu" but I would really hate to see raising of "backyard poultry" be banned. Canada is trying to get a law passed that we cann't sell our "backyard" produce, etc., and that will kill our "Farmers Markets". As for raising chickens - I have purchased the last chicken from the supermarket. I was sick to my stomach when I watched my SIL make his 8 year old eat a thigh that was full of blood. I know, it didn't heart him but it looked so dreadful. My parents incubated and raised hundreds of chickens for sale, alive and dressed and unless my memory is failing me, I don't remember blood threw out the meat. One chicken would be a meal plus. I'm told the commercially raised chickens, their bones aren't developed enough when these chickens are killed and they aren't bled right. Also, the boxes of "frozen chicken breasts" in the supermarket are "seasoned" - they are so salty and I've been told that they must be dipped in salt before freezing. This bird flu is something to worry about but I do believe if the chicken houses are kept disinfected and pens are kept clean we should be reasonably safe -- here's hoping.

Well, although it is a little different, they are more or less doing it with the ban on unpasturized dairy products. Instead of imposing laws that dairies be kept more sanitary, they just cook all the good out of the milk and call it safe and better. Some states have made it against the law to even sell it as pet food. Some allow that but it has to be dyed blue. In my state it can only be sold from the farm. I could not deliver it to anyone, or take it back to my house and sell it from there (I live 1/2 mile away from my farm.)
There have been studies that show that raw milk more often has less pathogens than the pasturized milk sitting in your grocers coolers. Raw milk has gotten such a bad rap undeserved and it is one of nature's most perfect foods and can aleve and nearly cure so many of today's health problems. I doubt I will be selling any, I have lots of plans for my milk and there are people standing in line for it already.

Skagit said: "First remember that the flu is a respiratory illness; there is no such thing as the stomach flu."

Yes, but...

h5n1 sometimes does manifest as just a gastrointestinal bug. The symptoms potentially affect many more organs than common flu, and they can be much more serious. Also, like the 1918 flu, the potential impact on the most healthy members of the population and for the flu to kill directly (not as a result of a secondary infection like pneumonia) is much greater. This is because it can induce a "cytokine storm", where the immune system goes into overdrive and kills off the patient.

The New England Journal of Medicine has a good summary of the human cases as of a couple months ago:

Here is a link that might be useful: NEJM Article