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dak56_gw

Blackberriy Questions

15 years ago

I'm getting ready to place an order for blackberries. I'm on the central coast of California, plenty of chill hours, (877), I guess you could say we have a 'Mediterranean' type climate, usually long, hot, dry summers (in the 100's) with sometimes 50 degrees shifts between the daytime high and the nighttime low.

I'm looking at:

Olliaberry

Hull

Navaho

Quachita

Triple Crown

I'm hoping if I go with the earlier varieties I'll avoid some of the problems with too much heat/sun.

We are also plagued with gophers. What size gopher basket should I look for? I'm not sure since I've read that blackberries are shallow rooted.

Any other variety suggestion? I plan to plant a dozen. :D

Thank you, any and all feedback welcome!

Comments (21)

  • 15 years ago

    A dozen of each variety, or a dozen total blackberry plants?

    You must be somewhat inland to get that much daily temperature variation. I lose around 10-15% of my triple crown crop to sun in 90-degree temperatures. The variety may still be worth the effort, but perhaps start with fewer than a dozen plants.

  • 15 years ago

    Just a dozen total. When I think about gopher baskets, that's enough!

    Yes, we are inland, about 30 miles from the coast. Do you grow any berries that do well in the heat? Though this last summer was exceptionally mild here.

  • 15 years ago

    Ouachita is not a great berry. It's a little earlier than a lot of them, but unless you plan to have a PYO operation (where you have to have berries for a longer season) I wouldn't bother with Ouachita.

    Individual cultivars have a pretty long harvest window anyway (about a month) so there's plenty of time to gorge oneself to the point of never wanting to see a blackberry again. With 12 plants you should have no trouble achieving this end.

  • 15 years ago

    Thanks for the warning about Quachita, Olpea. I'm just putting in this patch for our family, hope to be able to freeze and preserve any excess.

  • 15 years ago

    Will these be in a single row? Do you have any option of which compass direction the row(s) will point?

    This document notes UV damage risk per variety in the fruit column

  • 15 years ago

    I'm planning a single row, planted east/west. (along the width of the arena, furthest away from the well) I have two locust trees on the westerly side, so a little afternoon shade in the summer. I have a cover crop growing down there right now.
    (old picture from last May, right after we bought)
    {{gwi:59522}}

    Any suggestions? Thank you for the pdf, I had not seen that one. Good info on sun scald. That information should help a lot. How do you think they're defining "Home gardens Cultivars"?

  • 15 years ago

    "Home gardens Cultivars" likely those varieties easily found in retail nurseries.

    East-West alignment may be the most practical for your space, but this will put half of the row facing south, the worst direction for scald and UV damage. The trees on the west will help.

    East and North-facing fruit will have less damage in heat/sun conditions. With a dozen plants, you will have a surplus of fruit in 3 or 4 years and thenafter. You can always prune out South and West berry bunches at the green or red stage if damage proves significant. Once the berries turn black, I have a messy disposal problem here in the city , looks like in your location you could just toss them in a pile, but that would attract fruit flies and yellow jackets.

  • 15 years ago

    I just found that ouachita grows well here. What are the quality problems
    exactly. Bad to freeze? Not sweet? Berries to sparse and small?

  • 15 years ago

    I've grown all the Ark thornless erect varieties, except Natchez. I've discussed Natchez w/ a knowledgeable fruit specialist w/ experience of the cultivar from Missouri University (Pat Byers).

    Arapaho is the earliest and has the most unreliable quality. Natchez is supposed to be a replacement for Arapaho, but has similar flavor of Arapaho although somewhat larger berries and more production. From my experience, the only reason to grow Arapaho (and also probably Natchez) is for the benefit of very early harvest. My desire is to grow the very best fruits, regardless of harvest date, so Arapaho was a loser for me because it was the poorest flavor of the Ark thornless releases. It can be pretty bitter, even picked after the berries have lost their glossy sheen. I've never tried Natchez because it supposedly has a similar flavor and brix of Arapaho.

    Ouachita is the next to ripen, and is better than Arapaho. However, it still isn't as good as the slightly later varieties, Apache and Navaho.

    Apache is a very large berry w/ a nice sweet flavor. It's only drawbacks are that it's fairly prone to white druplet, and the seeds are pretty big. However, it's huge size makes up for it's large seeds. I like Apache.

    Navaho is an excellent berry, although somewhat smaller than Apache. Navaho is said to be more prone to orange rust, but I haven't seen it in my plantings yet.

    Triple Crown is in a little different category, in that it requires a trellis (semi-erect). It's production is much higher per sq.ft. than any of the Ark. thornless erect varieties. It's berries are also better flavored, sweeter, and have less white druplet. It's obviously my favorite berry.

    I haven't tried to grow some of the popular west coast varieties because they are marginal for hardiness in my zone. However, some of them are supposed to be significantly better than some of the varieties mentioned above, according to folks experienced w/ them.

  • 15 years ago

    My black diamond variety ripens 2-3 weeks ahead of triple crown. Black diamond is a good berry for cooking.

    I haven't had UV problems with it, but it is an understory and shaded planting among the much more vigorous triple crowns.

  • 15 years ago

    I sure appreciate being able to work out potential problems before they start! I've been thinking about what you wrote, Larry, about fruit flies. My neighbors house is empty, no one to harvest their grapevines this year. (well, I did a bit, but not enough to stop the flies) It was a mess. So many that they migrated over to my tomatoes. I've never had a fruit fly problem with tomatoes before.

    So, with Olpea's suggestions, I'm thinking now more of (2 of each)
    Boysen
    Ollalie
    Triple Crown
    Navaho

    (I'll have to look into Black Diamond, thanks!)

  • 15 years ago

    That looks like a pretty good mix. Boysen can be a very nice berry, even with thorns.

  • 15 years ago

    Triple Crown is also my favorite. I also have Natchez and am not incredibly impressed with it--altho' it does make a nice, large berry. The verdict is still out on Prime Jim and Jan as I just planted them last year. They seem to be quite vigorous and the few berries they produced were ok--a bit tart. However, they are thorny. Two older varieties I will always have are Black Satin and Chester. They are amazingly vigorous and always produce nice berries.

    Brook

  • 15 years ago

    My experience growing these varieties coincides with oplea's. Also, I'll put in another vote for Triple Crown. If maximum production (of large, sweet berries) is your goal for freezing/processing and you are limited to 8 plants, then I'd grow 3-4 TC's and fewer of the others. I grow just about every type of fruit that will grow in VA and if I could only select one type of fruit it would probably be TC based on taste, productivity, vigor, and ease of care. I'm always giving away tip roots of TC to friends and family as a gateway drug into this fruit growing addiction.

  • 15 years ago

    Thank you Brook & DJ for your suggestions. Triple Crown seems to be the standard for good taste!

    LOL @ gateway drug, my name is Dak, I started with the light stuff, just a few tomato plants and basil, and now....

  • 15 years ago

    I'm not understanding the dislike of Ouachita. I grow Ouachita, Apache, and Navaho. Ouachita is my favorite because of a consistent high quality fruit. That coupled with all it's resistances I think it is an excellent variety. I would like to try Triple Crown, I've heard consistently high praise in many threads over the years.

  • 15 years ago

    Hard to beat Triple Crown; it can be harvested 2-3 days before and after prime ripeness and still have good qualities.

    Black Satin has done well here, strictly a cooking berry unless you like tart, has about the same reaction to the sun as 3crown. Ripens 1-2 weeks earlier than 3crown.

  • 15 years ago

    Why no love for Doyle?
    I had an interesting experience with Doyle Blackberries. I had acquired two plants but really had no place to put them properly so I just planted them off to the side and forgot about them. They were drowning in weeds and baked in the sun, no water, no feeding. It was all they could do to offer up a few miserable looking berries. Those 4 berries were the most delicious I think I've ever tasted. More flavor and more sweetness. I think this has to do with plants that are water-stressed having more concentrated flavors in the fruit... or something like that? I seriously doubt the berries would have been that good on a large, healthy, robust plant with thousands of juicy berries hanging of of it. Too bad.

  • 10 years ago

    I have triple crown black berries, this is the third year since planting here in mo. My question is when is the best time to fertilize them?

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Apply compost in autumn, or apply a faster-acting fertilizer in late winter or early spring, before growth starts.

  • 10 years ago

    Fertilize at 5% bloom then again at 100% bloom this for larger berries. At end harvest fertilize for new growth This maybe one time in cool climate in warmer climate fertilize 2 months before growth stops by labor day in warmer climates after harvest and cools down blackberry plants grow 4" a day at all growing points.

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