konrad___far_north

Evans Sour Cherry....be aware, another nursery [Bali twist]

Konrad___far_north
13 years ago

I was reading this today on a forum, [below] not sure how much it's true. Well, this is somewhat old news, [2 years] but what

really annoys me is how nurseries can market a well known cultivar, [in Canada] under their own name like Bali cherry! If this happens, allot of people get misinformed when buying trees, thinking they are dealing with something brand new.

This should be stopped!

the bali cherry sold at bailey nursery is the same (evans or bali) on top but it is grafted to the mazzard rootstock on the bottom, which makes it only marginally hardy (i think only -10 degrees or so. st lawrence nursery sells them , but the stock is really poor. some trees they sell are only 8 inches tall and 1/8 inch wide, while others are 3 feet tall and barely 1/4 inch caliper. they're really spindly, and on hardly any root. you can plant a 3 foot tall tree in a 3 inch pot, that's how much root that remain on the plant. the owner smuggled the tree across the border, " named " it after his daughter, then put a patent on it, as if he developed it himself. he receives royalties on tens or maybe a hundred thousand trees per year sold at bailey and other wholesaler nurseries. thats the type pf person you deal with when you purchase from st lawrence nursery. bailey keeps touting that they are hardy to minus 54 , but they are not, because they are on mazzard rootstock,(look it up) i talked to the head horticulturist about the misleading information, but ten years later, they still put out that same false statement, because well it sounds sooo good, and it really sells those trees. buy from northern fruits in palmer ak, or from dna gardens in i think edmonton, canada.. these are on own root. the dna gardens are 6 inches tall but they are prices accordingly, and come with about as much root as the spindly ones from st lawrence

Konrad

Comments (15)

  • Beeone
    13 years ago

    Very interesting. The Evans cherry I have came from St. Lawrence. It sounded very interesting, excellent hardiness which is why I ordered it. The Early Richmond I already have has been somewhat sensitive in my climate, killing back twice to the roots in the late 70's.

    I did an internet search after seeing the tree on the St. L. website and found that it is more commonly called Evans, so I adopted that name. Don't know the rootstock, but the graft is probably now below ground level. When I got the tree, it was standard size for what I was expecting, although I don't know the caliper. Probably between 1/4 and 1/2 inch, closer to 1/2. I remember at the time that I wasn't impressed with the roots, though the tree has done well. After about 5 years, the tree now has a trunk that is probably 3" or better in diameter, and it is only about 6' tall. I only prune it to remove crossing branches, but haven't done anything to control height. Last year it was just absolutely loaded with fruit, and has had a good supply of fruit for the last 3 years. The stature is probably a bit stunted from lack of water, but it apparently tolerates that well.

    As a result, I don't think that what you've seen about St. L. is completely accurate, though there may be some truth and who knows about the rootstock. Relatives in Northern Sask. have Evans along with the U of Sask. cherries and told me that Evans has a much lower chance of winterkill if you dry it out in the fall to make sure it goes dormant before it gets cold. They use growing grass around the tree to remove the moisture, but I have just been stopping the water in Sept. to dry the tree out as natural rainfall is not an issue here. The tree drops its leaves in mid Oct. which is fine in this climate. Coldest it has had since being planted is -20 or a little colder. We expect winters to get to -30 and occasionally get colder, so the last few years have been quite mild.

  • chills71
    13 years ago

    Konrad....

    I'm not going to dispute anything you have written (about the size of plants from St. Lawrence), but ordering from DNA gardens for those of us in the middle sector of the North American Union (lol) isn't really a viable option for homeowners. We are required to have an import permit (no biggie) and DNA gardens minimum purchase for export customers is $500.00

    I would love to have bought my Evans from there (along with some of the new Haskop varieties and other things) but there is no way I would be able to plant $500 worth of plant material in my already over-planted yard.

    There is one more source for Evans in the US that you didn't mention. Burnt Ridge Nursery has had them from time to time and this year they are offering it again.

    ~Chills

  • lucky_p
    13 years ago

    beeone,
    The Evans/Bali cherries from SLN are tissue-cultured plants - on their own roots, not a graft. Yes, small on arrival, but they grow out just fine. Mine suckers almost as profusely as our native Chickasaw plum - and each of those suckers popping up around it are genetic clones of the original. I've given away numerous 'starts' of it to friends who wanted a pie cherry.
    It's not as good a cherry here as is the old standard Montmorency - but I'm in a hot zone 6 location. In zone 4(and colder), it may really shine.

    Chills is right - I looked longingly at many of the saskatoon offerings from DNA - especially some of the Lee selections, but I'm not starting a commercial orchard, and $500 worth of plant material is just too much to be my minimum order.

  • lucky_p
    13 years ago

    I've come back and had another look at this thread; Konrad, you seriously need to take a chill pill, dude. I'll bet that Dr. Evans is not disturbed at all.

    I seriously doubt that Bill MacKentley, at SLN, snuck into Canada, got an Evans cherry, and 'smuggled' it back across the border.
    I've been ordering plants from SLN for 12-14 years ago, and my Evans/Bali has been in the ground here for at least 12 years. They've always been up-front about the fact that Dr. Evans 'discovered' this cherry - it's always in their description of the tree.
    As a tissue-cultured specimen, yes, it was fairly small - maybe 12-18 inches tall and not much thicker than a pencil at ground level, but it never looked back once it went in the ground.
    I've not seen any indication anywhere that SLN has patented or trademarked the plant or name, nor that they're receiving a thin dime, much less obscene profits from royalties charged. 'Big Cherry', they're not!!

    Evans/Bali on its own roots is actually pretty easy to propagate from root cuttings. Can't imagine why someone would bother grafting it - and much of the info I've seen on it suggests that it's far hardier than most cherry rootstocks, so by doing so, you've lost its most impressive trait - its winter-hardiness.

    I'm sure that fruit-growing folks in zones 4 and colder here in the US are glad that they can get this reputedly fine cherry from a US source for a reasonable price. Would you deny them the chance to grow it?

    I do however, support your concern about nurseries re-naming plants - it drives me to distraction the way Stark Bros. Nursery is always renaming known varieties "Starking this" or "Starkrimson that" or "Starkilicious something or other".

  • Konrad___far_north
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thank you all!
    Lucky, you should have sensed that I was never really disturbed by this write up, especially coming from another forum.
    I haven't mentioned anything about it.
    But yes, I do need the chill pill for BALI Cherry!.. LOL

    >>Evans/Bali on its own roots is actually pretty easy to propagate from root cuttings. Can't imagine why someone would bother grafting it - and much of the info I've seen on it suggests that it's far hardier than most cherry rootstocks, so by doing so, you've lost its most impressive trait - its winter-hardiness.For you southerners it could well be, that a grafted Evans Cherry tree can bring other good traits!...one could be for longevity, second for less or none suckering.
    I have grafted some, ...will see what happens.
    Konrad

  • Beeone
    13 years ago

    When you mention it, I do seem to recall being told that the tree is on its own roots. Planted it long enough ago I just don't remember if there was a graft union or not. I've never had any suckers, though. Many people talk about how much it suckers, but not a single one here. Must be lucky! (I wouldn't mind a sucker or two to get another tree going, but I certainly don't want them coming up in hoards.)

  • yopper
    13 years ago

    I have to agree with LUCKY [he is the one that got me interested in evans a few yrs. back]. I have had a couple of good crops but last yr. wasn't one of them , nothing did good here last yr. too dry I guess. Mine didn't sucker untill it was 5 yrs. old. Burnt ridge calls it Evans bush cherry? Mine are trees and the suckers that I planted are growing like trees. I read on here a while back that some one in canada had grafted a sweet cherry on an evans root and it was producing cherrys. Was that you konrad??? YOPPER

  • Konrad___far_north
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Yup, that's me, just top worked some branches, Stella.
    Evans on its own root when left alone as I do look like a shrub.
    {{gwi:66793}}

    Konrad

  • chills71
    13 years ago

    Is that the Stella branch? Either way I am most impressed. Look at how clean that foliage is!

    Konrad, to do that in your climate...You are truly a marvel

    ~Chills

  • alb419_ny
    13 years ago

    would like to get a cutting or two from this sour cherry,will be glad to pay for stamps ecc.Thanks,
    Giuseppe

  • Konrad___far_north
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thank you Chills!

    No, that's not the Stella branch.

    >>Konrad, to do that in your climate...You are truly a marvelYou really have to give this credit to our cold winters.

    Giuseppe, try to contact someone in the US, it's illegal to ship live plant material across.
    ....
    ....
    Not sure why nurseries have to lie..
    I have e- mailed a nursery in the US about the false statement in their website saying:
    Bali was know in Canada as the Evans Cherry
    They where nice enough to fix it next day to: is know in Canada as Evans...
    Also they where saying..

    > That probably wasn't the biggest lie on our website. Let me know if
    > you find others

    I also asked about the Evans they sell, grafted or on their own root?
    Reply:
    Where the heck do you get them on their own root???
    We are also Zone 3, and our Bali, which we get from Bailey Nurseries
    in St. Paul, are grafted onto Mazzard Cherry rootstock, which is
    commonly listed as Zone 5. It is telling, I think, that I've never
    seen or heard of a plain old Mazzard Cherry growing as a tree in this
    area. And indeed I've heard reports of them dying over winter.

    I told them that I bought about a 100 trees 15 years ago from DNA.
    And that I would plant the grafted ones below the graft for zone 3, they thought it was a good idea.

    Konrad

  • franktank232
    13 years ago

    Konrad-

    Any idea how a Gisela 5 is going to do in temps that usually hit near -20F every winter with a possibility of a -30F??? Do you have a Gisela 5? I'm spending big bucks on a couple of sweet cherries from Rainiers and it might become expensive firewood if im not careful.

    I ordered a Kristin and something else that would pollinate it.

  • Konrad___far_north
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Hello Frank
    No, I don't have Gisela, - 30F is pretty cold, we had one night around - 49F, this happens about ones in 8 years or so. I'm sure, some of the tender stuff is fried!

    Well...if you never try, you'll never know,...Just put some in and see, ....and hope for a surprise!
    Pollination chart below..

    Konrad

    Here is a link that might be useful: Polination Chart

  • wdave_2009
    12 years ago

    I bought a Bali Cherry last fall listed as an Evans Bali Cherry grown by Bailey Nurseries in St Paul, Mn It is a grafted tree. It appears to have made it through the winter,even though we had a couple of -40 degree nights and a bear attack. The buds look good right now, but will know more as the weather warms up.
    w_dave2009

  • j_m_trentham_gmail_com
    10 years ago

    Konrad
    Do you ship rooted live cherry trees? I am interested in testing this out in the north texas climate - we have cold winters and unpredictable humid summers, I am looking forward to trying this out.
    Please email. Thank you.
    J