I try to go as much wood as possible... I know in the past i've just mixed parts perlite, peat and mostly woodchips and have had good success (plus woodchips can usually be found for nothing). Just remember you'll water often in hot weather and will need to fertilize often. I wouldn't even use topsoil. Save that for the filling holes in the yard.

pine bark is a good base for potting mix for woody plants. You can read about it on the containers forum. A popular mix is called the 5-1-1 mix, which is 5 parts pine bark, 1 part peat moss, and one part perlite. Some lime is added as well, I'm remembering 1 Tbs per gallon, but check at the container forum. I've had good success with this mix, it keeps it's structure for a long time, ie, it doesn't get too compacted, so the roots get good airflow. Pine bark does not decay as fast as wood chips, and so won't tie up nitrogen as much.

Thanks for the replies. I take it that you would recommend remixing with the addition of perlite, peat, or both. Would be easiest to just mix one of the two back in. Recommendations?

Unless the rotting mulch that you mentioned is aged/composted pine bark, I'd suggest finding another use for it and starting from scratch. Pine bark fines with 10-15% peat and 10-15% perlite plus 1 tablespoon of lime per gallon makes a fantastic mix that's moisture retentive yet doesn't support much of a perched water table. Around here, I can buy pine bark fines for under $30/yd or bagged at Home Depot for $3 per 1.5 cu. ft. I'd imagine pine bark would be readily available in VA, as well. If you can't find perlite locally, then pick up a bag of NAPA Oil Absorbant (item #8822). It's made from calcined diatomaceous earth and will serve the same purpose as perlite plus boost water and nutrient retention. Each bag holds about 8 gallons, and it costs about $8 a bag. If you want to try to make your existing mix work, then I definitely wouldn't add peat -- it already sounds pretty heavy. Instead, I'd add 15% Perlite by volume plus as much bark as you're willing to buy. Those two should help increase the air holding capacity,

Thanks Shazaam. Exactly what I needed to hear.

I wasn't able to find fines at the big box stores around DC. They only had the huge nuggets or shredded mulch.

They have fines at American Plant in Bethesda, if you are close. Runs about $6-7 for 2 cu ft. The bag that is opaque white that is called "soil conditioner" is finer bark and has a bunch of broken-down compost looking stuff in it. The finest (smallest) chips in the clear bag is what I prefer. It is slightly larger and no dirt-like stuff. Although I've used both in these light mixes.

Pine bark is nice because it doesn't break down as fast as wood chips...but wood chips are free (for me at least)...so i go that route. You can chop pine bark with a lawnmower and then rake them up..i did that in the past (annoying, but it works ...kind of).

Went to local nursery and lowes and the only thing I found was finely shredded pain mulch. I mixed it in along with perlite in my existing mix and like the consistency but then realized that shredded pine might be different than just the bark. Is shredded pine wood/bark combo okay?

If you go to a wholesale nursery, they will give you a pickup-truck load of what they pot their plants in for about $35.

Some sapwood is fine, but if it's more than 10% to 15% then you might need to use more fertilizer in order to compensate -- microorganisms that break down the wood will tie up some of the available nitrogen. I wouldn't worry too much about it, though. I've read that one of the newest experimental nursery substrates is shredded pine trees (the whole tree), and initial results are good. Again, though, they might be fertilizing a bit more heavily to compensate for nitrogen immobilization.

Different plant, but last year a put in a raised bed with blueberries. The mix I wanted was 1:1 Pine fines/peat. At the time, I couldn't find fines, so I used shredded pine mulch from home depot. This year, I was going to pull the plants and redo the soil, but the initial 5" diam root mass had spread to 18-24". It seemed like it was going to be impossible to dig them up without damaging them too much, so I left them (that and I was beat from doing other things in the yard). They are alive. I don't know if growth was hindered. Shredded mulch is definitely heavier and I am guessing will break down more quickly.

I have dolomitic limestone granules on hand. How much would I mix in per gallon with the pine fines in mind? Thanks again for the great advice. FYI the grafts for this year are Pink Parfait, Hidden Rose, Rubayait, Redfield, Celestia, Stearns, Holstein, Chestnut, Erwin Bauer, Hawaii, Winston, and Elektra. Hoping to get at least one of each.

FYI for DC-area folks:

Behnke's in Beltsville also has pine bark fines. Just picked some up last night.

Gee, I wish the commercial nurseries around here would fill up my bed with a good starter mix for $30. Most of them use bailed pro-mix that now runs about $35 for 3 compressed ft. The nursery I know that makes there own mix wants $60 a yard for it last I checked.

I should mention that in my nursery I make a mix of about a third compost a third peat and a third sand or perlite or a mixture of the two. Compost tends to run around neutral so no lime needed and compost works as a wetting agent for the peat and holds nutrients and water.

Regular peat-lite type potting mixes dry out way to quick and blow over when used as a tree mix in big pots.

Here's something of interest that may suggest the superiority of mixes that include compost, if you want some extra vigor from your fruit trees. This may be of importance for fruit trees as they can sometimes get runted out under the restrictions of pot culture.

Here is a link that might be useful: Compost in potting mixes

jwalker,

My notes from the container forums from al are:

To raise ph 0.5 to 1 point, 3-5 lbs for 1 cu yard. 1/3 - 1/2 cup per cu ft. 1 T per gallon.

In my custom mix, I estimated the ph of each of the ingredients and calculated a weighted average ph, then limed accordingly. My estimate of the ph of fines is 5. Peat 4.5. Perlite, leaf mold, and compost pretty much 7. These are from research-- not actual ph tests, so they could be wrong.

These are new plantings in 'root pouches'. I plan to test the ph in a month or so and readjust.

In liming my lawn with the pelletized lime, I can see that it takes a couple weeks to break down into powder, and I believe others have said that the lime takes time to raise the ph. So, you may have to wait a bit before testing, if you plan to test.

harvestman,

I hope I am not hijacking the thread, but...

I used a combination of your earlier advice (I think it was you) and the 5:1:1 mixture to do this year's plantings of apples, plums, and blackberries in root pouches. For a 15 gallon pouch, I did roughly in gallons:

5 Fines
3 Peat
1.5 Perlite/Napa floor dry
3.5 leaf mold. "Leaf Grow" hummus sold here
1 purchased vermicompost and compost
Lime as needed.
A couple handfuls of Dr. Earth #9.

All of these were mixed in December or so. I was shooting for a combination of draining and nutrient-holding. If I can defeat the bamboo in my yard, these will go into the ground in a couple of years. I hope it works.