What am I missing?

===>>>> it is suggested.. that a tree is twice as big below ground as above .... though not in the same form ...

so you have.. maybe this 4 foot whip .. with 3 eight inch roots ... is that root system sufficient to produce a crop .... i doubt it ...

so a tree takes some years.. to regrow the root system to get to the point that it can do something other than make leaves .. to make the food to grow the roots ...

once its all set below ground ... then look out ... time to fruit ...

i would suspect .... that if it does flower.. based on energy stored before the insult of B&B or transplanting ... it most likely will abort them or as you note.. bring on some kind of retard, for lack of a better word .. or perhaps miss the following year ...

that is based solely on my tree background.. and will look forward to see if the fruit peeps have differing theories ...

ken

I understand the requirements needed for setting fruit successfully, and I understand why it is suggested that your remove any fruit that does show up the first year so energy can go to root growth.

But trees can't think. It seems to me that if the bloom is pollinated it will attempt to set fruit until it runs out of energy. When it runs out of energy it abandons the fruit. Therefor it seems more accurate to say that first year trees cannot support fruit set, rather than to simply say they don't produce fruit.

So my plan is to remove 99% of fruit and just see if it has enough energy for a tiny little bit of fruit just for grins.

But if there is some other biological factor that prohibits fruit the first year, I'm hoping someone will explain it to me.

I imagine a lot of these statements are designed to help manage expectations for new growers and also to encourage them to favor roots over fruit the first year.

If you use one of the extreme dwarfing rootstocks like M27 you will have no problem getting regular-size fruit the year you plant it.

Fruit trees go through a sort of juvenile phase when they are primarily growing wood, and then once they start fruiting they stop growing (at least not at the same rate). The rootstock is a big factor in that process. With dwarf trees in particular the switch from growing to fruiting is quite sudden. As a result, if you let the tree go into fruiting mode when it is too young, it will stop growing, and you will effectively prevent it ever reaching full productivity. The MAC9 (Mark) rootstock is particularly prone to this, but all the M9 type rootstocks are to some extent.

So what you are doing is certainly possible, but probably not a very good idea unless you have vigorous rootstock.

On the other hand if you bought a tree on a vigorous rootstock or an own-root tree, and you know it is going to be too big for your backyard, then encouraging early fruiting is an excellent technique for keeping the size down.

Most of the trees were sold as genetic dwarfs. Would they still stop growing if allowed to fruit? Would allowing it to fruit if I wanted it to remain smaller still work?

Or, in short, how does that information you gave apply to genetic dwarfs?

Thanks.

Oleman,

You don't mention what type of trees these are.

In general, as Ken points out, just because you have pollinated flowers doesn't mean you'll get fruit. Juvenile apple trees will sometimes send up blooms then promptly abort the fruit. I don't know what signal the tree sends to the flowers to accomplish this, but evidently the tree and flowers do communicate (probably through hormonal processes).

It's also well known apple trees on dwarf rootstocks can runt if cropped excessively in early years. Tart cherry trees and blueberries can also do the same. I've read that some people don't necessarily think this is a disadvantage if you want to keep the tree extra small.

If your trees were sold as genetic dwarfs, I'm wondering if they are stone fruits. Peaches in particular can send up blooms the first year. Of the 20 peach trees I planted this spring, 4 or 5 are blooming. My trees are so vigorous, I plan to let these first year trees set a light crop, if they are willing. However, none of these peaches are genetic dwarfs. If they were, I might think twice about leaving the blooms on. Genetic dwarfs are much less vigorous and probably easier stunted.

Well I think we are all talking about the same thing in a different way.

In my mind, and what I wanted to confirm, is that technically a bloom, once pollinated, will "begin the process" of setting fruit.

"promptly abort the fruit" sounds about right, but that is still fruit nonetheless.

I don't have my heart set on getting fruit, but I just wanted to make sure I understood the process.

As far as I can tell, if the tree produces a bloom that is pollinated it will in turn produce fruit. It may be abandoned in an hour or a day, or just never fully develop. I think I understand that.

I'm getting lots of responses about the likelihood of the fruit dropping, the impact on the tree, etc. However, no responses seem to indicate that a pollinated tree will fail to make an attempt at fruit the first year.

Having said all that, I doubt I will allow much or any crop.

I have the following fruit varieties:
- English Plum
- Sweet Cherry
- Genetic Dwarf Peach
- Grafted Dwarf Apples
- Genetic Dwarf Nectarine

I might consider leaving a very few fruit on the peach trees. And I may leave fruit on the plum. That's about it I recon.

I wouldn't worry about leaving a few pieces of fruit to sample on each tree. Just don't draw any conclusions, good or bad, based on the taste.

Well, I won't hold a few bad tasting fruit against the tree, but if the first year fruit is great and it gets worse after that....I think I will. lol

It may have not been the original question but the concept of sexual maturity in fruit trees is important to understand- or at least partially understand, which is all I've managed to accomplish. In peaches wood comes into the world sexually mature and a dwarfing rootstock of apple produces a similar affect on its scion.

Vegetative wood is sexually immature wood and even a century old apple tree produces it in the form of water sprouts. I don't know if in water sprouts this sexual immaturity or determination to grow at the expense to fruit production is anything more that a heightened vigor brought on by greater access to nitrogen and water from the roots compared to what smaller more fruitful shoots get access to (there are a couple of other factors I'll let lie).

Nevertheless water sprouts grow in the same manner as a vigorous newly planted and immature whip. Such a shoot can often be transformed into mature wood quickly by spreading it to a nearly horizontal position.

The maturity of wood is not a state of being either absolutely immature of completely mature so wood in-between may set some flowers but fail to provide adequate energy to it as most energy is going into the production of new wood. Also the energy of producing those flowers was made the previous season so a tree that's been transplanted has been put under stress that may make it impossible to support it's blossoms or even much new vegetative growth.

I got good edible Figs from my trees in the First year. I think it depends on how old the tree when you buy it. Some body said a tree grows under ground more than it grows above ground. How about my trees in Pots how much can they grow in a pot. It fills the pot with roots but when I re-pot them every few years I trim the roots. I think also we has few peaches from the tree in the first year.

Hi olemanwinter, I tried to email you, did not work.
If you like you can email me, just click on my name.
I was wondering where you got your English Plum & why that plum? We are in the same state, so maybe I will have luck with one of them myself.
Thanks,jolj.