You said you wanted to learn about bagging, if you haven't seen it yet, check out the link below which is basically a summary of all the things I learned about it on this forum... Good luck. Nice pics.

Here is a link that might be useful: Apple Bagging

Serenade? what about Surround? Surround is your most important organic production ingredient.

Looks like you could have removed a whole lot more wood. Not too late to open them up a lot more. Remember the old adage- "they need to be open enough that you could throw a cat through them".

Good luck.

But what if you're not fond of cats and wouldn't mind them hitting a few branches on the way?

gordo: thanks for taking the time to compile that info on bagging, you did a very good job of explaining the process and included details. I've been bagging for a couple of years now and appreciate the work you did to thoughtfully document the process of bagging.

Never tried the little slit in the center of the zipper, probably will give that a go on some this year down low where they will be easy to monitor.

Kendra: I'm glad you still sound happy and enthusiastic about your orchard. I hope to visit 3 KS orchards in succession by this Fall, Olpea's, Wagonwheel and your families'. Keep soaking up the info. and experiences!

Michael

Kendra,

Rick Godsil has mentioned he grows clover b/t his trees, and I realize you've already seeded it, but it has a significant drawback. That is, it will attract stink bugs.

Many of those experienced with commercial production recommend against it. I have it here, and wish I didn't. There have been times I've seen stink bugs coming up out of the clover and flying everywhere in my small orchard. This is especially going to be a problem for you with the soft spray program you are trying to adopt.

Wagon Wheel Orchard is relatively new and Rick is trying to do a low/no spray approach. I wish him the best, but there is a very successful commercial orchard two miles from him that has to spray synthetic materials on a regular basis. I strongly suspect Wagon Wheel has not experienced the pest pressures yet to come.

Good to see the update, hope you'll give us more when the fruit sets and you get to thinning and on up to harvest.

Have you gotten a ladder and sprayer that will let you reach the tops?

I think you'll learn a lot more about apples this year!

Tradergordo  Thank you for the awesome document on Apple bagging. Going to Costco to buy my bags. IÂm also looking forward on your information on bees.

Harvestman  We plan on removing more wood. The trees do look so much more crowded with all the leaves. Since it was our fist time we didnÂt want to over do it. We started with Serenade because it was what I was able to find at my garden center. IÂll have to order Surround. I also remember someone on the boards using both for different reasons. Would you know why and how to spray them  together or separate times?

Michael1357 Â You are more than welcome to visit and check out our apple trees. It would be nice to get some feedback.

Olpea  I seeded around 10 trees, only around the bottom. We decided to do this for mowing reasons. What else would you recommend instead of clover? IÂve also noticed onions or chives growing around the yard.

Eskota  I did buy a 5 gallon sprayer recommended on the forums. I have yet to buy a ladder. Do you recommend any?

I have a feeling IÂm going to learn a lot this year. Thanks again!

Kendra

Olpea's right about the stink bugs. Here we also get tarnished plant bugs in clover and other dicots. As I understand it, clover also pulls a lot more water out of the soil than a good orchard grass mix. If you can't find a grass mix locally that is blended for orchards you can order it I'm sure.

Serenade is made to offer some protection as a fungicide, Surround has better efficacy at it's designated role of repelling plum curculio and other apple munching insects.

This year I'm mixing summer oil at 1% with Serenade and Surround and spraying 4 times at weekly intervals, starting at petal fall. I will wait for the later blooming apples before spraying anything. When temps get above about 88 I'll drop the oil.

You can follow Scott's advice and spray the surround when it has begun to noticably wear off the fruit. I have to do it on a schedule because I'm managing so many orchards.

You may have to trap out apple fly maggot with red spheres and tangletrap. They show up about a month after petal fall here but haven't shown up in the orchards I manage.

Kendra: I purchased an 8' Tallman tripod ladder a couple of years ago and love it, on your uneven ground you'll like it too. The dealer it came from is in MO I think, you can locate their dealers on the site. My 8' ladder is fine for me and is light enough to carry around easily with one hand, comes in handy that way lugging around a sprayer with the other hand.

No I don't sell them or work for the company, wish I did, maybe I could have gotten an employee discount as they are pricey.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tallman ladders

Well I prune on lots of uneven ground in the worst possible conditions and I prefer the Little Giant design. They are so stable that even when they begin to topple I can right them as though I was on stilts. I also like to climb up one side and down the other to cover more tree before moving the ladder.

I argue with a lot of fruit growers about this but most haven't tried using one in an orchard and the tri-pod is the traditional orchard ladder. It has it's advantages but there are a lot of ladder accidents in commercial orchards. I think the Little Giant system is safer once you get used to it and I've converted longtime commercial orchard pruners to my way of thinking.

Kendra: Midwest Grower Supply is where my ladder came from. 1-866-802-3431. Their web site is useless for some reason but the home page looks good.

Thanks for the kind note about your visit to our orchard. We've been very busy getting ready for this season and we also grafted up over 1,000 trees this spring for our own use and retail sale. We're up to 550 varieties now!

We have not had any problem with stink bugs so far - we have had to deal with bag and tent worms. I'm trying to figure out what commercial orchard is so close to us. Oplea - is it Mr Ott? He grows trees on the edge of his tilled land but nothing I would consider commercial. We have a place down south of us that's primarily peaches but no apples that I'm aware of.

We're on our 11th year with clover in the orchard and I haven't seen a pest problem yet (out of the ordinary). We are growing a short french white clover and I don't know if that has any bearing.

I have sites with clover in the grass where stink bugs and tpb's aren't a problem and other sites where they are but I do perceive a strong corelation. One anecdotal observation is not much in the way of proof but the pedigreed advisers often warn of the connection and my guess is their advice is research based.

I've read a lot about the advantages and disadvantages of growing cover crops versus mulching around fruit trees. There is a lot of contradictory information on it. Some things say that it helps with pest problems and others say it makes it worse.

The difference seems to be whether the orchard is organic or not. For organic orchards, the cover crops provide habitat to encourage more beneficial insects, birds, and mammals, which offsets the attraction of pest insects. For non-organic orchards, sprays seem to diminish the habitat for beneficials, but still attract pests. For some reason, the bad bugs always seem to develop resistances before the good bugs.

Rick,

The commercial orchard I was referring too was Geringers. As you know, it's about two miles from your place. Frank has mentioned the season long problem with stink bugs. Yes, it is a peach orchard, but as professional literature repeatedly mentions, its legumes that draw stink bugs.

"We're on our 11th year with clover in the orchard and I haven't seen a pest problem yet (out of the ordinary)."

I'm genuinely curious about that. The ordinary pests here are OFM, PC, and CM. Have you seen these pests yet? May I ask what you are spraying, and how often?

Are you seeing any earworm damage on your sweet corn?

I mentioned that you were a fairly new orchard because your blog mentioned you planted your first apple trees in 1999 and first pear trees in 2000 with your first big crop of peaches and pears in 2004. I thought you were first open to the public in 2008.

With 72 trees you will need a semi-commercial spray machine. I use a Solo 450 with I paid about $600 for. It is basically a backpack motorized leaf blower with a chemical tank. I spray my 25 mature citrus trees and several hundred potted ones in 10 minutes flat. It is also very economical on chemicals, much more so than any sprayer. I don't believe a 5 gallon sprayer will do it for you if it is a pump-up one like I'm thinking. The Solo 450 will spray from the ground way higher than your apple trees. Stihl also makes one similar. Much as I hate to spray, this machine makes it easy rather than tedious.

Here is a link that might be useful: mrtexas

Rick,

Just a clarification.

Since the thread was 3 months old when you resurrected it, I had forgotten the context of my previous comments when I typed in a quick response last night.

After some more thought, I remember the context of the discussion with Greenhousekendra three months ago.

On another thread, she had asked about a spray program for her 72 trees. I mentioned it would take more than a cursory spray program to protect her apples in this climate. In contradistinction to that advice, you indicated she could raise apples with a low/no spray program, as you were doing.

My original comment in this thread about your orchard being relatively new while trying low/no spray approach, was not so much to do with stink bugs, rather with pest pressure in general.

You mention that you had a first real harvest in 2004, with another harvest in 2005. In 2006 and 2007, drought and freezing weather destroyed your harvest, with the next two years (2008 & 2009) successful. When I originally wrote the post on this thread, you'd only had two years of sequential back to back harvests, which is probably not enough time to allow pest pressures to build. As you get more harvests under your belt, I would be very interested in how your pest control program is working for you. What you're using, how often, and % marketable fruit? If it's successful, I see it as an opportunity to reduce the number of sprays I do.

As far as the stink bugs, in contradistinction of your recommendation, I do not recommend legumes as a cover crop. The experience of the peach orchard near you, mirrors my own. I suspect the bean fields around his place are where his stink bugs originate. In my case, I have clover I can't get rid of.

Below is a picture of a peach I took this morning. There are other things cause catfacing like this, but in my case, stink bug is probably the culprit.

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Here is a picture, taken earlier this year, of my son next to a peach tree. Notice the blooming clover on the ground.

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Nice healthy trees- hope you open them up with some summer pruning.

I don't know about your location, but here I find stinkbug damage quite site specific. I expect that in commercial orchards pressure is more consistent than in smaller areas of fruit trees. 70 trees is just a real big home orchard and might not necessarily draw them to site every time.