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tufaenough

I really want to do a bench, with a back this winter.

20 years ago

I would appreciate any tips from those who have cast them as well as any web links to them.

The info I can find is thin, mostly for newbies and is a basic product using redimix as the medium.

I want to make as thin and as light a bench as possible and because it's a big project for my front yard I would like to eliminate any trial and error and get a great job done right the first time.

I have a welder and if forced to use it I can if it will get me to a thinner product.:)

My goal is to make something that people don't recognize as concrete, but too heavy to walk away with.:)

It's hilarious to watch someone pick up my rather heavy pots thinking they are plastic or composites.

Comments (15)

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    This is cool. I could do something like this.

    I wonder if I could use steel stucco mesh for the back.
    I know it is weak but....
    Weld some bars into the back for strength then sand the front to get rid of the sharp edges then spray paint.
    Doing the sides and seat in colored concrete, maybe sparkly coal black or even white would be pretty easy.

    Here is a link that might be useful: I like this bench.

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Tufaenough --- You are absolutely on the right track. Weld rebar for the frame, tie on stucco lath, then layer on concrete. There are several benches, including a couple in progress in the albums linked below. There are also some by Carlos Cortes and that is exactly how they are all made.

    See "Heritage" for a historical bench...

    See "Carlos Cortes" for some of his...

    See "Scratch Coatas" for some of mine in progress...and,

    See "Chairs & Tables" for some frame & lath work details.

    I had actually planned on updating a couple of the albums today with more recent pix, but we have a line of thunderstorms moving through, so it will be at least tomorrow before I can get any new shots. Will post shortly.

    Hope they help. Jump in and go for it, you certainly have the eye & skills necessary.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Albums With Benches

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks for the vote of confidence Tango but I'll never have the skills to do what you do. Your welding is absolutely fabulous. You must enjoy it. I hate my smoky spitting little wire feed welder!
    I'm still at the slapping mud on the side of a bowl stage of this hobby and enjoying it.
    I don't think I'm up to welding an entire frame and applying mud, ferrocement style. I'm probably going to go for a simpler cast bench, something I know I can handle
    I've spend most of my short concrete career creating interesting (to me at least) colorful exposed aggregate finishes so structural concrete is a step up.
    I have a fondness for simple colorful shapes, they are fast and easy and sell well if I don't wish to keep them.:)
    Someday I hope to tackle work like yours, not faux bois because I don't have the artistic skills, but simpler ferro cement projects. I would like to do a faux wagon wheel gate some day.

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    WOW, Tango! You certainly have some major projects going there! Amazing! Inspiring! And interesting animal co-workers, too...are anoles native to your locale? Your 'Art Critic' is too cute, as are the nestlings in the sand bag!

    OK...now for the questions!!! I'm still very much in the learning stage, (that's an understatement!) and won't be tackling furniture projects for quite a while, yet am facinated by your stump planters, and might want to try making a very small version to see how I do...so here goes:

    What is the difference between your scratch coat mix and your finish mix? I'm sure that it differs, depending on what you are making, but in general, for your stumps, what is the mix?

    How do you bend your rebar so symmetrically? I've never worked with it, and am considering taking some kind of class, (welding/sculpting?) but your hints/tips are much appreciated!

    Were I to make a much smaller version of your stump planters, would lighter armature wire work, rather than rebar? As in, say, a finished 'stump' no more than 18" or so high, and a little more than half that around? (I admit, I'm a little intimidated by working with rebar. Bending, welding...I'm an old, scrawny, weak li'l thing! LOL!)

    Do you add any coloring to the final coat, do you paint on coloring and seal at the end, or do you leave everything natural?

    I'm sure I'll think of more questions, but for now, this is it! Oh, one more...what type of bird will move into your 3-room birdhouse?

    Thanks for the wonderful pictures.....!

    - Lisa

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    BZ --- No need to be intimidated, just jump in & play. Concrete is cheap and fun to work with. Now the questions (and good ones they are)...

    1. What is the difference between your scratch coat mix and your finish mix?

    You are correct that it varies by application, but in general the first coats are courser and contain fibers, while the "finish" coats are finer and fiber-free to facilitate sculpting details. I often use the old 1-2-3 mix (1 part cement - 2 parts coarse sand - 3 parts pea-gravel) for my base coats because they are tried, true & strong. Follow that with as many coats as needed of a 50/50 cement/finer sand mix and you should be able to get pretty good detail. From there it gets quite complicated, but it is possible to finish with a sand-free (neat Portland) mix that is almost like clay to sculpt, but very, very tricky to work with and cure.

    2. How do you bend your rebar so symmetrically?

    There are numerous techniques, but they all require some practice. A vise and an inexpensive hand tool called a "rebar hickey" (See the "Tools" album/check Home Depot) will handle most basic shapes with probably the least sweat. If you want to get fancy (and sweat more), a 2 pound cross-peen hammer will allow you to form more complex shapes & tighter curls, but you'll need something really solid, like a small anvil or a chunk of heavy plate steel, to pound it on. Either way, wear safety glasses. Rebar has been known to shatter like glass at times when bent or struck. Use the "cross" part of the hammer and pound on the side you want it to curve towards. You really don't have to hit it all that hard, just keep working a section until it goes where you want it. (SAFTY NOTE: Never heat rebar to try and form it. Just a little too much heat & it will crystalize. Overheating & improper cooling are the main causes of the "shattering" mentioned above.)
    Another trick is to fabricate a form to bend metal around. Stack and screw a couple of pieces of plywood together, then cut out a circle or whatever shape you want to the size you need and bend the bar around it. Another is to draw the shape you want on heavy plywood, then drill holes on either side of the line and tighten large bolts through them with nuts & flat washers. You can then "weave" the bar between the ends of the bolts sticking up. Also good for repeating or making multiples of a given shape.

    3. Were I to make a much smaller version of your stump planters, would lighter armature wire work, rather than rebar?

    Yes. There is another, smaller diameter form of rebar that's called "smooth rod". Maybe a quarter inch, and as the name implies, "smooth"...no bumps or ridges like regular rebar. It can be bent into almost any shape with a large pair of locking pliers or likewise hammered with a cross peen. NOTE: If you aren't into welding, any type of rebar can be "tied" together with wire. Welding is obviously stronger (and actually faster), but tying rebar is the commercially standard practice and the wire and a "twister" can both be found at Lowe's or The Depot. Once you have a workable frame, tie on some "stucco lath" that's cut to shape. Lath is the expanded, diamond weave galvanized sheet metal you see attached to the frames in my album pix (also @ Lowe's & Depot). I like to use stainless steel saftey wire to tie it on (most auto parts stores), but any lightweight galvanized wire will do. Do NOT use copper or aluminum. Copper can cause severe discoloration, aluminum can rapidly corrode and pop the concrete off. (SAFETY NOTE: Use leather gloves when you are working with the cut lath. Once cut, it will have ten-thousand, razor sharp fishhooks all along the cut edges.) Once the planter (or whatever) has the lath attached, you can start slathering on your base coats. If you will be adding more layers, don't let it set up without "scratching" the entire surface you want to add more coats onto. An old fork will work fine. You just want to give the surface enough "tooth" for the following layers to mechanically bond with. And, speaking of "bond"...that's another item you can pick up at your local big box store. It is an adhesive designed to help new layers of concrete "bond" with old and really helps your finish layers grab the scratch coat.

    And, 4. Do you add any coloring to the final coat, do you paint on coloring and seal at the end, or do you leave everything natural?

    Yes. All of the above at different times, but I don't personally use "paint", per se. Probably the best response here, is to direct you to an earlier post that I hope is still accessable. Search this site for "Cement Color Guides...How to Post". There are a couple of charts I put together that descibe the basic properties of the many coloration options available for cementious materials. Once you have memorized them, we can talk further (just kidding).

    As for the critters...yep, my place is thick with lizards and I go out of my way to treat them nice. They probably consume a few hunded tons of 'skeeers a year. As for the birdhouse, it's designed for smaller birds (like the Carolina Wrens that make nests in everything in my barn), but I suppose it depends on who buys it and where it ends up as to the particular species. I just hope they enjoy it.

    Glad you enjoyed the albums. They are there to hopefully inspire and help inform anyone interested in sculpting cement & concrete...so thank you. Just pass on what you love & learn and we'll call it even.

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    THANKS SO MUCH, TANGO!!!

    Your instructions are clear, and easy for any newbie to comprehend! YAY! They've been printed and added to the plastic filebox in my BF's garage (where we're both playing in the mud every weekend, lately!) That's where I keep all my reference materials, for easy access while I work...since my mind is like a giant sieve!

    Believe it or not, I'd already printed your charts about the coloration options, and have already played around with Copperas as an addititive. That's some funny stuff. I use it around my azaleas to keep their roots in acid soil...tough here in the lime-laden midwest! When used in 'crete/tufa, the color ranges from buff, all the way to dark rust. I thought it would be rather bluegreen, but nope! The acidity of the product must slow down the curing process, too, cuz those items took much longer to set and demold than any that I've tried. And even when I cast several items from the SAME batch of mix, the colors are quite different. Odd, but true...maybe the differing mold materials react with the mix in varying ways? Ahhh, nature!

    I'm hoping that I can try my mini-stump this weekend. My BF has been trying to build a tufa bonsai, (hard to describe, but way more interesting than it sounds!) and is frustrated with his efforts so far. I plan to show him your pics, to get him enthused again. (Visual learning is sometimes SO much easier than reading directions! LOL! For me, anyway!) Perhaps he needs to change his methods. That smaller rebar/smooth rod sounds like just the thing, for both of our projects. And as luck would have it, there's a Home Depot just minutes away, so we can get the mesh lath, too!

    I'm looking forward to the day that I can hand out tried- and-true, sage advice! I'll remember those who helped me, and do the same for the next class of mudpuppies!

    Keep up the great work, Tango!

    - Lisa

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    OOOOH-OOOOOOH!

    This is both an idea for Tufaenough, and more questions for Tango88.....

    I'd dumpster-dived 3 metal-framed kitchen chairs a long while back, thinking I'd find a use for them, SOMEDAY.....

    Basically, they're formed from approx. 1.5" tubes of enamelled (bright yellow, I might add!) metal. The back cushions were already gone, but probably were circles of plywood with vinyl padding on the front/back, screwed into the sides supports of the upside-down "U" shaped back. (Think modified ice-cream parlor style chair, but much thicker 'wires') None of the chairs have arms.

    Were I to remove the plywood/vinyl/padded seats, wire the 3 chairs together, side by side, to form a 'settee' frame, then wire on lath, do you think that I could make use of these metal chair frames as the armature for a garden bench? I could build the framework for the arms on the 2 ends.

    All surfaces would be covered with either 'crete, or tufa. Do you think there'd be any kind of adverse reaction, especially since all the surfaces are painted already? Or would the paint be a problem? (Hmmmm....)

    If this technically sounds like a feasible plan, then TE, you may want to start searching the streets on trash day, or head to the local thrift store! Cheap, or free, pre-formed metal armatures! Whooooo-Hooooooo!

    (I knew I'd try to find a way around bending rebar...lazy, cheapo me!)

    - Lisa

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    BZ --- It might be tricky to stabilize the three of them well enough with just wire connecting them. Even though the lath and cement will eventually "tie" them together, they will not be capable of transfering any real load from one to another very well and they will still try to move independently. If you could find someone to tack weld a couple of pieces of rebar or even flat steel somewhere across all of them, it will be much sturdier. They might be ok without it, but I always try to make sure my frameworks are fully load bearing.

    As for using "prefab", aka "found" frames...absolutely. Go for it. Just stick with metals that will be compatible with concrete and you will be fine. A few years ago, a friend concreted over some funky sixties retro butterfly chair frames and they came out great. Unfortunately he found out later that they were very hot, semi-rare collectibles and would have been worth enough money to buy himself a professional welding rig. Oh well...se la vie, se la art.

    Have fun kids.

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks, Tango...

    I'll see who I can scare up to consult with/perform your tack welding suggestion. Otherwise, perhaps if I used the screw holes in the seat frames and back frames, I could secure some type of plywood (?) to the horizontal/vertical surfaces, to stabilize the whole thing? Or maybe even use rebar that way? Wired through the holes?

    We'll see what happens! A project to learn from, if nothing else! And hey, the price is right! ;)

    As for what happened to your friend...OH, NO!!! That's a dumpster-diver's nightmare! Those valuable 'treasures' that we hoard are all supposed to bring fame and fortune on 'Antiques Roadshow'!!! LOL!

    Well, I guarantee that these particular chairs are NOT of any value, except to me...if they work for my project, that is! Otherwise, they've just been dust collectors in my garage for the last 3 years, and were heading to Freecycle in the near future, till I saw Tufaenough's post....

    Saved, by the Hypertufa Forum!

    - Lisa

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    My problem is that most of the benches I like seem to weigh in at half a ton. There is no way I want to make a bench that weighs that much.:)

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Hey, Faux Bois is a "weighty" subject. As is anything made of concrete...even "lightweight" concrete. But then, to me, at least, that's half the charm. Mass is good. I just submitted a Bauhaus inspried bench design for a client that has a wonderful, Southwest meets Far East Ranch House home that would be about eleven feet long and weigh in at just under a ton. But then...you can bet that noboby's gonna' snag this puppy off their lawn and run far with it.

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    BZ --- Don't embed plywood in concrete. It will wick moisture out of the mix and likely expand to the point it can break the concrete. Wood, wetted so that it will expand, has been used all around the world for millenia for fracturing solid stone like granite & marble, making it a very bad choice for internal concrete use.

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Okie-dokie, Tango! I'll scrap the wood idea! Mesh, rebar, mesh, rebar, mesh!!! LOL!

    A bench weighing just under a ton!!!? HOLY MOLY! You're right, nobody could abscond with it, but then again, getting it there and installing it will be a joy, huh? Or do you plan to build it on site? How long do you estimate that it will take you to build this one?

    - Lisa

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Hi Tango
    Do you ever use any flat bar in you armatures. I'm considering this as a method of improving the strength in one direction plus the fact that I have some flat bar (1-2 inches wide 3/16" thick)and it bends into cool arches with no problems.

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    BZ --- I submitted a half dozen designs so I'm not sure yet which way it will go (or IF). All the other designs were traditional Faux Bois, but after seeing their home and meeting their architect, the simpler Bauhaus style just seemed a better fit. If they go for that one, I will have to make forms and cast it off-site, but either way, I'm allowing about 6 weeks for completion & installation. I'll try and post the skethes in an album once the client has made a decision.

    Tufaenough --- Yes, flat iron is quite handy for a lot framing uses. When used on edge it functions a bit like an I-Beam and can add a tremendous amount of stiffness for it's weight. It is also excellent for forming irregular shapes since, as you noted, it bends more easily than bar stock or rod. Just remember that it needs to be at least a half inch deep (more if you can) to avoid "shadowing"...the discoloration that can show through on the surface. Good idea to use a rust treatment too, since there is a fair amount of mass that, if oxidized, could cause spalling.

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