On Toro's website, they list B&S engines for the Super Recycler models and some of the Recycler models have them as well. I can't believe that Toro couldn't select engines that they could warranty. And does Toro really manufacture its own engines for some of the Recycler models or do they simply put their name on it and another company actually makes them?

"Seems they weren't able to warrant engines that weren't made by them. Now they've gone to their own Toro engine. It comes from China, and is built to Toro's GTS standards."

Nonsense. Where did you get the idea they could not warrant engines not made by them. Toro has used and warranted Tecumseh and Briggs built engines for decades. Toro is not building their own engine in China they are subcontracting it.

I'm aure the new chinese made engine will work at least as well as the Briggs engine it replaced.

"Dealers say the Super Recycler has a better tranny, but I think most of the problem on my neighbors is belt slip."

IF there is a problem from belt slip then it is a simple matter to adjust it.

I just looked at the Toro's at Home Depot yesterday. The cheaper models all had Kohler engines. They don't carry the better models at Home Depot.

Toro wants to control everything they put on their mowers now, including the engine. I was told by a dealer that going forward, they'd no longer use the B&S engines because they aren't built exclusively for Toro, and they don't want to be responsible for any problems consumers encounter. They want their own engine built to their standards. I'd still rather see American products used, whether China's run as well or not.

So briggs is not suppose to supply engines for anyone but toro????....um, isn't briggs in the engine selling buiness? I suspect toro is getting the engines cheaper in china and if they put the chinese name on...no would recognize it...or suspect it was junk...what they fail to understand is that by putting the toro name on there...should these engines be lame...they are ruining their own name.

I think that mowernut needs to think about what he has written. If it still comes out the same then he should go back to the dealer and ask him to confirm a copy of the statements he keeps repeating. Or better yet ask Toro for confirmation.

Toro has outsourced production of all manner of components including engines since it's inception. That they can't all of a sudden trust their suppliers makes no sense at all.

I think andrelaplume nailed it. Toro is getting the engines cheaper in China, and if they put the Chinese manufacturer's name on them, nobody would recognize it--or they'd suspect it was junk.

MTD has been doing this for the past two or three years, now Toro feels they need to in order to be price competitive with MTD.

The engines themselves may be fine. it is the serviceability that I find troubling. Not very many parts really available. To a degree, it makes sense. Look at a Honda GC. Need a carb part? It hardly makes sense w/ a $16 complete carb. The problem has been w/ MTD, you go the whole carb option and it's $50. Or you price out parts IF they are serviced and available. Buy a Honda or Briggs engine'd machine in my opinion.

I talked my buddy thats a toro/snapper dealer and said parts for the new toro/chinese engine are readily avaiable .

When I checked earlier this year, they had a total of 22 serviceable parts for the Loncin engine. That's what I'm referring to.

Of course Toro isn't making their own engines. Without a doubt they are getting engines cheaper from China than B&S could provide. It's all about being competitive. I'm only stating that because of $$$, they want an engine built exclusively for them so they can put their name on it, and keep costs down. Yes,depending on how durable the engine turns out to be, it could end up hurting their name if they don't hold up, but I wouldn't think that should be an issue since they guarantee them to start in two pulls for 3-5 years depending on the model. What's odd is that any Home Depot right now (in Florida) still sells the Toros with either a B&S, or a Kohler. I haven't seen one mower there yet with a "Toro" engine.

btw...and recall I am the owner of an original Toro PP from a delear some 12 years ago...it pains me to see the toro's at hd because the are obviously of lesser quality than the Honda's there. I don't mind a less expensive model if the quality is there. All I know is they have a continuous supply of recon toros and I see 5 toro recons for every honda.

"it pains me to see the toro's at hd because the are obviously of lesser quality than the Honda's there. I don't mind a less expensive model if the quality is there. "

If I understand what you have written, what you are looking for is the quality found in an upper end product but you don't want to pay for it. In other words the quality found in a dealer model like a Super Recycler at the price of a Recycler model sold at Home Depot. Good luck.... BTW the lawn mower market is highly competitive and comparably priced models from different manufacturers will be of equivalent quality. There are no secret high quality Honda branded models being sold at Home Depot. I wish it was the case.

Ha! My PP made it thru another year but I am now having an issue with the self propel. Anyway..I found my way back to this post.

I guess my point is that the HD toros appear to be of inferior quality compared to the dealer models. Deck/wheels maybe even tranny. The toro dealer has nothing nice to say about the HD models.

However, the local Honda dealers sell the SAME honda model as the one at home depot and praise the model...though they would prefer you buy it from them.

..And my toro dealer salesman touts the toro engine built buy toro...which we all know is from China....it may be an ok engine but I'll stop back and get the service guys opinion on that!

With Personal Pace, the belt is always slipping, so 'belt slip' as a problem really doesn't exist except insofar as adjusting for the proper free play on the sliding handle is concerned. Most likely the problem in the OP case has to do with operator trouble. Understanding PP and getting used to it can be hard for some who are used to holding a bail down to drive the mower. In fact, the less you know about mowers and the less experience you have with them, the more likely you are to like PP and take to it right away. For others, the problem is they must change their mindset from walking behind a propelled mower to keep up with it to basically going back to a non-propelled mower that just happens to be weightless. You still have to push it but it takes little to no effort. But the main thing is, you have to be smooth and keep your arms 'locked'. If you slow down the mower slows down with you. But if you let your elbows bend and take pressure off the sliding handle, the drive disengages. Then when you push forward again it might be jerky on the take-up.
As for the surging engine, it is rare for a 4-cycle to do so. I suspect an adjustment is needed on the governor assembly, or one of the small springs associated with it may be off on one end, missing or broken.
It also just occurred to me that if the engine speed is too slow or too variable, PP is liable to be uneven and balky. So if engine speed can be normalized you might find the drive works as it should.

I bought a Toro HD recycler 2 years ago. Hit a small rock about 2 inches dia, I had plastic flying every where.
Popped riveted a metal patch over it. Need to make a steel band like the front so the rocks bounce off.

If I recall correctly, even the smaller B&S engines are built in Asia now, probably China.

The smaller 149 cc engines from Home Depot are Kohler engines while the larger 200 cc engines are Briggs power plants. l like the Kohler unit on my mower it fires 1st pull every time for over two yrs now . Has plenty of power form mulching thick clover . Have not witnessed any Toro offshore engines here yet in the Great White North .

Ewalk, you *have* witnessed a Toro offshore engine in the Great White North---it just doesn't have Toro's name on it. The Kohler XT engine is made in China.

Obviously, it has served you well. Hopefully, the generic Chinese engine that Toro has put its name on will turn out to be as good as your Kohler.

Hey did not realize Kohler has been sent offshore . Will keep an eye peeled for the New Toro Plated Engine in the future Thanks for the Info !

Many of the manufacturers now are putting their name on their engines. I know Cub Cadet is doing the same but they claim their engine was designed by Honda.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bad Boy Mower Parts

How do you find that that ink is useful?
It has nothing to do with the discusssion of Toro mower engines.

Since you just joined the forum today, please do us a favor and stop spamming and don't bother posting and wasting space.

Today I stripped and painted the deck on my jd l130 and all the nuts were metric. When I was going through the bearings, all my new bearings were made in China. They are of good quality. The bearings were all good, and I popped some seals off the spindle bearings. I noticed those were some I bought at a local industrial supply and had metal shields and held up well. I USUALLY have to replace at least one but not this time. Some of the new bearings I have are made in China and look similiar but I am betting the seal cap is plastic not metal. That is heat sensitive and when they shrink crap gets inside causing failure. It still bothers me to have so much Chinese stuff. Its that I know, somehow, someway, they cut a corner and it is gonna increase my cost or hassle down the road.