Well,Im one of those people who would give my eye teeth to go into space and don't think any type of space exploration is ever a waste of money. Rather than looking at it as being a practical exercise for possible future aid to us in some way,I look at it more in the light of expanding our knowledge.

Marda:

Maybe we could win this contest? I wish -- oh, how I wish -- I could be one of the moon colonists. Maybe in my next life...

Here is a link that might be useful: win & get a space ride

Marda, you and Ray Bradbury!

I was once a guest at a dinner party with Bradbury. We had just landed on the moon and the talk at the table turned to that. Ray Bradbury said it was the most thrilling and important thing that had happened to mankind in his lifetime. And this from a man who didn't drive(:

I'm not against space exploration in principle, but in addition to being very concerned with taking care of this planet I fear what would happen if we manage to colonize in space. It gives me chills to think of the damage we would do. That's not expanding knowledge, that's arrogance to think we have the right to colonize space and take all of our crap with us. It would make the diseases we brought to this continent look like a head cold.

I think it was Robert Heinlein who gave a speech which included mentioning all the side-benefits that have come our way as a result of the technological research into space travel.

Do I now or have I ever wanted to space-travel? No. Do I think space travel is a worthy effort? Mostly yes, because of those side benefits. And I sure prefer see the money go into figuring out how to survive in a vacuum rather than into things like Agent Orange. Human nature is always going to produce those who try to claim whatever they don't have, whether it's mountain tops, deep-sea crevasses, the North Pole or the moon... and there are always going to be people who leave a mess as well as people who take care of their environment.

Well, not to take this thread down another path, but when I saw the title to this post, all I could think of was Ralph Cramden yelling to his wife, Alice, "One of these days, Alice...One of these days...To the moon!"

But seriously, DH would want to be first in line to go up into space. But colonize the moon? Like Shelia, I just think about how we could mess up another planet.

This is an interesting thread on a couple of levels. As I stated,I'd kill to travel anywhere in space,but when you really think about it,I don't think there is any kind of "ethical" policy in place when it comes to space exploration,is there? Should there be? Obviously if humans begin living on the moon or even planets,those places are going to drastically change. Do we then just say no,no way should we ever live out there,or do we say yes,because someday it may be our only choice. I honestly don't know.

I had the same reaction as Andie. Ralph Crambden.

It was always my dream to go into space as well. I'd go on a mission in a heartbeat if they'd have me as a guinea pig. Starting a colony on the moon? Well, I have thoughts on that at several levels.

A research colony, like one of the space stations, yeah I can see that. Would be convenient perhaps. For possible habitation? Sounds to me like somebody is thinking this planet isn't going to be fit for human life much longer. Not LOL.

The way I look at it is that humankind hasn't understood the same ideas most animals have in that you don't soil in your own bed. At this point in history, people move on to new lands because it's easier to do than addressing the problems in their own indiginous birthplace. Those that can just leave en masse like rats from a sinking ship. We've been doing that for centuries and longer. The dysfunctional part about that is that it doesn't do one thing to bring about necessary change. This is pertinent from continents right down to large cities. It's just easier to haul their garbage out, commute in, buy their resources and not deal with it. This goes on until the clean areas they move to just get ruined as well. It could be more forgiveable if even a little effort were put into dealing with issues, instead of abandoning them as if land/resources were infinite. I think it plunked my twanger because that is how it hits me.

I would like to see what the third generation of colonists would look like. Living in 1/6 gravity all one's life, the human genome will allow the human body to adapt to that environment. And if I recall correctly, when there is a bottleneck, or a radically different environment, it only takes three generations for mutations to appear. Enough mutations to produce in essence a different species.

Wednesday morning musing's... maybe work will settle down in another few days....

Back to the grind...

When I titled this thread "To the Moon" I was thinking of Ralph and Alice - I just decided not to use her name, but I did want to evoke the image.

Suzy brought up a point that crossed my mind - that the Government and NASA is scoping a way out if our Earthly home totally falls apart. Packing for that move would be a challenge(-:

I am a firm supporter of the colonization of the Moon, Mars, and for that matter, the entire solar system.

It would be foolish to leave all of the known life in the universe on one single planet...Earth.

I am glad that space colonization is finally receiving renewed interest, after a dormant period of a few decades.

When we began to colonize space, we can bring with us all of the endangered plants, animals, and other organisms that risk extinction here on Earth. We could build entire sealed ecosystems floating in space with artificial gravity provided by rotation. These colonies floating in space would be as much as 5 miles wide! I know it sounds crazy, but when you take away gravity, construction becomes a lot easier.

We could allow some of these colonies to be exact replicas of habitats and environs on Earth, so that the plants and animals of said environs could flourish without the risk of extinction from nuclear wars, drought, environmental destruction, or eventual asteroid impacts.

Space colonization also offers the exciting possibility of cheap, 100% clean energy from the Sun. Sunlight is 8 times more intense in space than it is on Earth, and it also doesn't disappear for eight hours every night. Solar power satellites orbiting the Earth could beam their energy down to receiving stations in deserts or fields, where the energy would be converted back into electricity and fed into the power grid.

This would save millions of tons of carbon dioxide from being released into the atmosphere.

Space colonization is a good idea for not only humans, but all life on Earth.

It's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there!

If we want to survive as a species, we may have to live there.

I just heard that our U.S. Forestry budget is to be cut 58% for 2008. I don't have to spell out the consequences, do I? Loss of lands set aside for future generations to enjoy in an unspoilt state? Given that our temperate forest are being found to be better carbon sinks than the rain forest, we don't really need to preserve what we have, do we?

Of course we need to preserve what we have. We also need to take action to prevent extinctions of species in the event of a large human or natural disaster. The colonization of space is the only way to do this.

Space colonization could serve as a back-up for all of Earth's life; plants, animals, humans, fish, fungi, you name it.

Has it occurred to anyone that *maybe* we (Earthdwellers) are the "back-up" for somewhere else?

Somewhere in the unknown space there may be an Earthlike plant looping around a G-type star with a population divided between the "care-for-home" and the "careless-of-home" folks, similar to our differing attitudes of using solar or using oil for energy. Finally this otherworldly population technologically advanced to being able to colonize... and did so, finding this place we call Earth.

Heck, I don't even want to take an international flight with all its rigamarole. A space flight--naw! And I've been reading science fiction as my main genre for over 30 years.

Two other thoughts I had...
- Just wait a bit for global warming, pollution, etc. We may yet achieve a moon-like environment right here on Earth and avoid having to travel over 200 thousand miles.
- "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."

Thank you for putting to words an almost universal American misconception.

I remember as a child when I'd express an ambition for something bigger/better/newer I'd sometimes be countered with an admonition from my parents that they'd consider giving it to me when I could learn to take care of what I already had.

When I hear local politicians get on the "growth" bandwagon, I think of all the things we hold dear about our little piece of the world we would have to trade in for "growth". Things like dark skies, clean air, the sound of nature. It's one thing to give it up of necessity, to provide for our own needs, but anything more than "enough" is an excess.....unless we wish to become something we aren't and maybe don't want to become anyway.

calliope, I wonder if you would say a little more. I want to understand your point, but I feel like perhaps I'm missing something.

Of course. I liked that sentence that growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. To me that says that growth is something one should not undertake for its own sake. Like cancer, it could be a bad thing. Growth for no purpose but to grow isn't always a good thing. But, anymore if somebody like say a city planner starts expounding things to change a town just to grow, one should question the motive behind why do you think we need growth for the sake of growth? I hear platforms like if we put in a *mart, if we tear up this farmland to make a factory complex, we will attract businesses, we will attract people, we will grow! It's understood we need enough business to employ our own inhabitants, but why do we want to become a metropolis? Do we really want to be one?

The charm of my community is that it's rural. For many years the young people moved out for jobs and in the last fifty years so did the businesses when outsourcing began. What that meant was the people who stayed, did without a lot of ammenities simply because their community meant more to them than shopping strips and high powered jobs. On the other hand, property was cheap, as was the general cost of living. So, although we didn't make much, it was enough for our needs. As the jobs left, it is valid to attract enough new ones to keep us employed. But we don't need to attract enough jobs to grow into a metropolis. With the tax exemptions given to new industries here, it's the residents who are footing the bill for the infrastructure needed to grow. Not the industry. But, we still hear the cry ........GROWTH!

If we grow, then our way of life is gone. Perhaps forever.

What if we are a "cosmic" experiment? The species might well be in danger of failing and of actually failing in the far distant future.

If we did colonize the moon would we repeat our mistakes? We seem to have a history of repeating them them here on earth. Or in order to avoid that would Moonside be a much more tightly regulated society? Perhaps George Orwell was a century off and his l984 projected world might be 2084??

Rendezvous with Rama deals with that idea in the trilogy of books by Arthur C. Clarke.

The SciFi people are usually way ahead of the ballgame when it comes to exploring what new technologies will bring, and more importantly, explore what it will mean to the human condition.

Thanks, I think I'm getting the picture now. I agree with your philosophy, calliope!

I want to comment further, but it would be a bit of a tangent so perhaps I will start another thread. I can't until after I take a big exam tomorrow--this is a state licensure test which is grueling enough, but for me compounded by the testing center making a complete muck-up of my attempt to take it last week. I'm jittery about the exam content plus having to see and deal with those idiots (sorry, but really, it is warranted)--well, y'all can see I'm a tad stressed. Anyone with spare positive thoughts/good vibes/virtual sunflowers is very welcome to send them my way!

Well, if they have a contest to win seats for the first bunch (or any bunch, for that matter) on a space shuttle, my seat is up for grabs.
It is fascinating but I have absolutely NO desire to go.
If it was mandatory, I would be the first burial on the moon because I'd never make it there.

leaveswave,
I agree with you about calliope.
Her philosophy on any and everything astonishes me.

When I visualize calliope, I always see her as "Mother Nature."

I sincerely hope we have a few hundred people on the Moon by the year 2040.

There are a number of folks I'd like to see on the moon ~~grin~~but I have no desire to join them. We don't even have all the species on earth named nor know of what benefit they might be for health, food, in the future. I'd rather see our resources used here. As for side benefits, yes, but just think of what could have been accomplished if all that effort and money had been used directly on solving problems here. josh

ROTFL! Josh, maybe that's the subject of another thread - People You'd Like to See Sent to the Moon. I can think of more than a few myself.

The NASA and space exploration annual budget is equivalent to spending 8 weeks in Iraq. We've been in the Middle East for several years now.

Please don't say "all that effort and money", because there hasn't been enough effort and there definitely hasn't been enough money.

josh,
As I stated, I have NO desire to go to the moon.
Don't let andie fill the space ship with her people on the send-to-the-moon-list because I have several I want to be sure gets on the first trip.

Are we humans really evolved enough to go into space. We keep making the same foolish destructive mistakes on all fronts. Some people are more civilized than others They seem to be the ones to invent the useful thoughts and things.But there seems to be another half of us that takes the useful and turns it into destructful.

More than anything else i would like to go into space much farther than the moon. Than again i love space too much to want humans to destroy more than our earth. No. My humble opinion is we've got a few billion years of genetic growing up to do before we're ready. Sigh......

FYI,the last I heard,NASA gets less than one per cent of our Federal budget. I can't imagine a world without a curiosity and need to explore those places which remain untouched,whether it be space or deep in the ocean and I don't think any part of science should get short shrifted when it comes to striking out into the unknown. I still get a thrill when looking though a telescope and seeing those beautiful rings of Saturn. Wanda,I'd take your seat in a mini second.