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julianna_il

Organic fertilizer?

19 years ago

I have my first compost pile going, so I plan on fertilizing this year with compost tea.

But my friend doesn't do compost (yet) and she's going organic. She was planning on Miracle Gro, but I said she'd be better off going totally organic. I said alfalfa tea, because I've read that here, but now I'm wondering if that's bad/incomplete advice.

Her question was "how often?"

But I realized alfalfa tea would just be nitrogen, wouldn't it? She does just vegetables, not really flowers or anything.

I've always just used a 12-12-12 Miracle Gro too, so I need to learn some new things. Will my compost tea be enough, along with perhaps a foliar spray of liquid kelp? Or do I need other nutrients? And how often do we do all of this? I have both veg. and many flowers.

I haven't yet had my soil tested, but I'm expecting big deficiencies in everything. It's acid. I'm sending soil off next week.

Thank you.

Comments (9)

  • 19 years ago

    Compost tea isn't a substitute for fertilizer.

  • 19 years ago

    Teas aren't (very strong) fertilizers although some swear by them.

    Your plants could care less where the minerals (fertilizer) come from as long as they get what they need.

    Your soil does care that organic matter is regularly fed to it so the worms, other critters visible and invisible have something to eat. In return you get nice, workable soil, and natural fertility which reduces (and in some cases eliminates) fertilizer requirements.

    Planting some seeds/plants and spraying them with teas isn't going to get you very far.

    Some would disagree and you can listen to them if you like.

    My advice to anyone going organic is focus on large amounts of matter. Compost, grass, leaves, manure, bulky stuff. Compost it or let the soil eat it in place. Feed the soil that you expect to feed your plants.

    Use teas as a supplement.

  • 19 years ago

    If you get your soil into good condition, well endowed with organic matter, so the nutrient load is in balance and the soils pH is where it should be so the nutrients are available to the plants and the Soil Food Web is functioning well teas, fertilizers, etc. will be unnecssary. Before planning on compost tea, or anything other than getting enough organic matter into the soil, get that soil test for base nutrient load and soil pH done and look more closely at your soil with these simple soil tests;
    1) Structure. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. A good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top.

    2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up.

    3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart.

    4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer you soil will smell.

    5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy.

  • 19 years ago

    If you have no idea of your soil content or how it will perform, then by all means have it tested. But your comment that it is acidic and you are expecting big deficiencies has me wondering. Why do you think this? Have you never grown anything in this soil before? Or has what you've grown or are growing now struggle to survive? Generally, unless the land your garden is on was subjected to heavy cropping previously or has been otherwise severely depleted, nutrient deficiencies (with the exception of nitrogen) may be very slight. Have you never applied compost or any other organic mulch? Or undertaken any previous soil amendment? And there is nothing necessarily wrong with acidic soil unless it is radically acidic. Most plants prefer a slightly acidic soil and nearly all tolerate a relatively wide range of soil pH.

    As to fertilizers. While I prefer to replenish/supplement my soil's nutrient supply with compost, there is nothing inherently "evil" in using an organic fertilzer to do the same. You are just side stepping the composting process and delivering the nutrients in a more direct form. Alfalfa is not just nitrogen and will usually pencil out at around a 2-1-2 NPK and is considered a complete if low concentrate fertilzer. And there are other, more balanced organic fertilizer formulations available that will deliver nutrients in higher concentration. These can be purchased commercially or you can make your own. Take a look at the recipe for homemade organic fertilizer discussed on the Soils forum.

    Compost teas of any kind can be considered a fertilizer, but are generally quite dilute in nutrients. If using, be sure to apply as a soil drench rather than a foliar spray. Plants access nutrients primarily through their roots and while some may be absorbed through the foliage, the amount is small and most of the benefit is lost to evaporation. You will get better effect if using a granular or powdered fertilizer worked into the soil lightly, delivering the nutrients where they are of most benefit - at the root zone.

    It takes time to develop sufficient compost to adequately address the nutrients needs of a garden, specially one that is growing harvestable, edible crops. There is nothing wrong with supplementing with an organic fertilizer in the meantime or even in addition to compost or other organic matter applications.

    Here is a link that might be useful: homemade fertilizer recipe

  • 19 years ago

    Guy, I do plan on adding lots of delicious compost. I only started my pile last summer, so this will be the first time. (My pile is doing so well!) So I'm going to be off to a good start this spring.

    Kimmsr, these are great tests to do, and I thank you for them. I will definitely do these and see how things pan out. I know from working in my soil that there are less than five worms per shovel. Maybe one. But they've found my compost pile. :)

    I know I have a lot of work to do to improve my soil, but this whole soil improvement thing is kind of new to me. (I'm not sure why, I grew up in a farm family, but we just put manure on everything and lots of chemicals on the fields)

    Gardengal, the reason I think this is twofold: 1, I bought one of those four dollar kits at Lowes last year, and it said my soil was acid, and I was very deficient in the big three. I know it's clayish just from working it, though where I used to live (further south) was much worse, so this feels like pretty good dirt to me. And then it's just common knowledge that our soil in this area (we live just east of the Mississippi, in the bluff area) is very acidic. So much so that when I called a nursery asking for pine needle mulch (I had seen it on a gardening show and thought it was lovely), the man freaked out and said NOOOOO, you won't find that here because our soil is too acidic. That would make it worse.

    I have grown on the soil, the last two years. This will be year three. I've added in *some* purchased composted manure, but I'm sure not near enough. This year I have plenty of the real deal. Yay.

    My stuff mostly did well, except last year's bug problems. It had never been gardened until me, though my neighbor said there used to be a large tree where I made my veg. garden. So that may have sucked up a lot of nutrients..I don't know.

    I'll know a lot more when I do the tests Kimmsr mentioned, and when I send my soil off for proper testing. I know those four dollar kits aren't so great, but it was on sale. LOL.

  • 19 years ago

    Kimmsr, I've been working on the tests while out working to plant my spinach and lettuce.

    Apparently the tilth is okay...it passed. And surprised me. I thought it wouldn't fall apart.

    Waiting for the water to drain the first time...lol (but we've had a lot of rain)

    Forgot to smell it, but I'm headed back out. And then I'll do the one with water and a jar.

    But the most interesting of all: the worms. When I dug up the hole for the drain test, there was ONE little earthworm. That's not so good. But I was working the soil for my spinach/lettuce, and decided to put it next to the compost pile, which is on one edge of the garden. OMG....in the little patch I worked, probably 8 inches by a foot and a half, I'll bet there were 20-30 worms. I think the compost stuff must be leeching into the soil and the worms like it. I always find many worms in my compost pile other than when it's too hot.

    Okay, back outside before the sun sets....

  • 19 years ago

    Juilanna-

    It's pretty easy in Zone 6 to get bulk compost by the truckload. I live near Marion, and there is a place in Carterville that sells finished compost $10 per cubic yard and loads it into your truck. If you are in Metro East I'm sure there is a municipality that composts leaf and lawn waste and has similar opportunities. If you need more info PM me and I'll give you directions to the place in Carterville.

  • 19 years ago

    Many people think that by adding compost and organic matter to their soil it will suddenly and remakrably change into something fantastic, but it does not happen that way and it takes time. Be patient, observe, let the Soil food Web do its work and in time your soil will be where it needs to be, but not overnight. How long depends on how bad it was when you started and when you started, and you may need some kind of fertilizer the first year or two, but that is where the soil test comes in, so you do not needlessly plunk down "stuff" that is not needed (spending your money for no reason) or so that you do not thorw off the balance of nutrients so your plants exhibit signs of nutrient deficeincy when the real problem is too much of something interfereing with the uptake of another.

  • 19 years ago

    There are organic fertilisers, which are "close enough" to miracle grow while still being organic to offer someone like your friend the best of both worlds.

    I use Dr. Earth vegetable fertiliser.

    http://drearth.net/products/blended.php