LOLOL. NYC has always fascinated me. It's like going into another world. I've only been there a few times, and each time, stayed there a couple days on the way to somewhere else, but just like Paris or London, or Tokyo........if you want to see amazing things, you can find them right under your nose.

We were staying there waiting to board a ship years ago. My mother drove there herself with us children. I would have never had the nerve, ever. There isn't enough librium in the world to get me to drive there. The area in which we stayed was primarily Italian-American and she was in seventh heaven to be able to get good, authentic Italian food. Can you believe after all these years, I still remember her ordering melanzane.

suzy,
So true.
So true.
Like another world.

Spent 10 days in NYC with a group of teenagers a few years ago.
For most of them, I don't think Mars would have been as foreign as NYC.
Not saying it was anything wrong...just VERY different from their familiar tribe.

One thing the kids noticed right off was no one said 'excuse me'...'pardon me'...etc. when they bumped into each other.
The guide explained it was an 'understood.'
With so many people passing everywhere, New Yorkers would spend their entire day apologizing.

In my 'neck of the woods,' we make eye contact with everyone.
We wave to people passing on the street...whether we know them or not.

We also noticed in NYC, in the places we ate anyway, they moved tables very quickly.
There was no sitting around and talking, getting an extra soft drink to sit and visit, after dinner.
Talking and visiting in our tribe is as much a part of a meal as the food.

Everyone still knows everyone.
If you don't know them directly...you know them 'once removed' at most.

Teachers and police are in authority.

Mam and Sir, Mr., Mrs. or Ms., are ALWAYS used when addressing anyone older or anyone younger in a position of authority.

You left off Dr., Officer, Judge, or other occupations when addressing those in authority Wanda ;D And that, even if you don't know someone here, you still treat them like they are someone you know.

What I noticed when I moved here? Everyone hugs everyone. You go to lunch with your friend, they hug you hello and good-bye. Some workmate comes back from vacation, you hugged him before he left and when he came back. There are even levels/types of hugging. In the South, they're the huggingest bunch of people and it's an artform. A lady always extends her hand to iniatiate a handshake until she gets to know you well enough to hug you. I had to laugh when our student, visiting from Amsterdam, said, "We don't hug, we kiss three times, especially for birthdays". It was funny because she found it easy to kiss my boss, when I'd have one-arm hugged him. She shuddered at the thought of touching him with her arms. Course, it would help if she wasn't so darn huggable. teehee

Men still get the door for women and elderly folk. Women will hold the door for an elderly person or the next woman behind her if appropriate. Women still teach their sons to get the door. We expect it here. Anything else, would just be out of the ordinary. No one gets anyone's chair any more nor do they stand when a lady enters/leaves a room. Those I miss, but I totally get why that doesn't happen any more. Husbands/boyfriends get the car door for their lady (I reach over and unlock/open his door once he's opened mine and I'm in.).

Now these manner things can go over the top. It took me forever to figure out, not only did you thank the person who said "god bless you" when you sneezed, you also have to say "excuse me" for sneezing. But I guess, more is better than less when it comes to good manners.

Have been to NYC many times and everything Mary has said is totally accurate. It's so much fun being there and even more fun coming home.

"Walking more than two abreast and stopping in the middle of the sidewalk is the equivalent of stopping a group of Hummers in the middle of the highway. Pull over to the building side of the sidewalk if you need to stop for a moment."

OMG, I LOVE this analogy! lol The same deal pertains to walking the sidewalks of downtown Chicago.

I have to hold my tongue and strenuously focus on my breathing when I get trapped behind folks like this. It takes every fiber of my being to not shout:

"HEY, some of us actually live here and we're trying to get from Point A to Point B! If you need to search for a Starbucks or a McDonald's from your Mapquest directions, can you PLEASE move it over to the side? You do NOT come to a dead stop in the middle of a busy sidewalk."

Thank you. I feel better now. :o)

Karen

Pittsburgh is pretty much like any other big city. Hardest thing here is learning the "language". When we first moved here someone said they were going to "red up", I thought they were going to paint themselves red or something! Turns out they were going to straighten up their home as company was coming. Now it is our city slogan "Red up the City"
Don't know......don't ask! LOL!!!

And Pittsburgh is pronounced Picksburgh.......

Overall the people are very nice, lots of different nationalities here which makes for really good food!
The only thing you do not want to do when visiting our city is to "dis" the Steelers, that might be cause for a little verbal abuse! LOL!
There are many other things like Gum Band when they mean Rubber Band...........

Here is a link that might be useful: Pittsburghese

Not national, or maybe it is...

I've noticed that teachers and educators have a tendency to stop right in the middle of the doorway to talk. If no doorway is handy, then --yup-- smackdab in the middle of the hallway. And, sorry to say, sometimes they step out of the elevator just enough for its doors to close... and stand there talking.

If you ever get a chance to spend some time in their environment and just observe... I've spent time in elementary, middle, high schools, and universities; in Virginia, DC, Maryland, Delaware, and WVA. Doorway conversations seem to be a universal trait.

Its especially noticeable in this building. There are many corridors and sub-corridors, but nicely planned so that every 30 feet or so is a lobby-type area that can accommodate a dozen or so people. Invariably, the people will paired or grouped, standing in the doorways!

I grew up within spittin' distance of "The City" and went often as a teen and college student and then married an Iowan and moved here.
In the midwest you preceed every request or observation with a nicety....for example...Midwest:
"Excuse me cousin Ralph, I don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I thought you ought to know, your fly's is unzipped"
Where as someone from the New York-New Jersey metropolitan area would just say..."Psst! Ralph! your zipper!"...not rude...just say what needs to be said and get it over with!

The general business of being a pedestrian is pretty well the same in any good sized city I have been in. I remember being in Madrid with my SIL and her husband and getting the lecture about keeping my hand on my purse and not carrying all my money in my wallet, and about all those they knew who had their pocket picked. I said, just put your head down and act like you are aware of where you are going. And on the first excoursion out of the hotel, they stopped at a kiosk and bought a city map, then proceeded to stand in the middle of the sidewalk and look up and down, right and left, blocking all traffic...It's a wonder they didnt' get mugged!

In Iowa and much of the rural mid west, it's polite to salute a driver on a gravel road or the county black top. If you meet a car or pick-up you lift the fore finger of your right hand off the steering wheel and just give it a little flick....you may be greeted with a solemn nod or perhaps the same finger flick. Took me a while to figure that one out! I just thought people knew my husband and recognized the car. Then I took a job with the Census Bureau and found that even 200 miles away strangers greeted me on the back roads.
Also gravel road etiquitte says you drive like a bat out of you know where in the middle of the road on the flat, but get over when approaching the crest of a hill.
And ALWAYS shut a gate benind you!
Linda C

Used to go to NYC for business all the time in the bad old 1970's. And yes, you have to be tough to live there. I'd always start to rev up as the plane started its descent into LaGuardia as I knew it would be a mad dash once we landed & then the whole time I was there.

Now I'm about as far removed as I could be from that environment. Here the main emphasis is SLOW DOWN. People talk slower & just take their time. Chatting is a must with practically everybody everywhere. And when you're talking about someone it's not uncommon to chat their genealogy. It's like, "Let me tell you about Ida Mae. You know she's Wanda's daughter who used to live out on the old Smith place on FM246. You know right where the Shamrock station burned down in '84. They used to raise tomatoes and sell them at Ms Roddy''s store. And on and on.

And when I go to a locally owned store & write a check no one ever asks for ID.

andie,
That had slipped my mind.
It is nice not to have to pull out 10 pieces of ID to give a check...even at the one back in town...everyone that works there lives within 2 miles of me.
When I give a check at the one locally owned grocery, if there is a new girl on checkout, she just yells at the manager-on-duty, they nod heads, and my check is approved...again, no ID.

"Pleasantness was the machismo of the Midwest. There was something athletic about it. You flexed your face into a smile and let it hover there like the dare of a cat."
Lorrie Moore (Like Life)

Actually, much has been written about "my tribe" by the great anthropologist, Garrison Keillor. "Prairie Home Companion" is eerily familiar to me.

I think the reason I love Madison so passionately is that while it's interesting and progressive... people behave in a culturally familiar way for me. I was acutely aware of my outsider status and body language in Phoenix, Connecticut, and Atlanta... though I blended when I lived in The Cities. (Minneapolis/St. Paul for all you non-Midwesterners.)

When I am on a sidewalk, I exchange acknowledgements (eye contact, nods, waves and/or words) with all other pedestrians. If I am in my neighborhood or on a back road, I wave or nod at all motorists, regardless of whether or not I know them. I subconsciously exchange brief eye contact and a smile with people in stores and restaurants. This is polite Midwestern behavior that almost got me assaulted when I studied in Paris as a 20 year old... I was never even aware I did it until I had a wake of men, mostly from Northern Africa, following me, convinced I was communicating something else entirely. It took a concerted effort to change my body language. Doing so made me feel rude and unnatural... but infinitely more safe.

It really does take the experience of being an outsider to understand how one behaves when one is on one's own "inside". I noticed a behavioral difference when I lived in Atlanta that seemed odd to me: That whole chivalry-open-door thing. In the Midwest, it is customary to hold the door for another person when you get there first. Doesn't matter who you are, unless you're maybe a women with babies either in tow or in-womb, or are older or less-able-bodied, in which case you can expect doors opened for you. Sometimes men in cowboy hats will behave with a chivalrous flair, but other than that, no normal Midwestern man is going to trip over himself to open a door for a woman, and we don't expect it. (Remember, this is where "the women are strong, the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.")

I really threw those Southern men for a loop when, not realizing it might wound them, I opened doors for them. And I didnÂt mean to look at them funny when they went out of their way to beat me to the door to open it for me... it was just that I was genuinely confused because I was young, able-bodied, and didn't have a baby on or in my person.

Oh, there's a whole snow removal etiquette up here too. If you have a snow blower, and you fire it up before your neighbors get home, you should probably clear all their sidewalks. Especially if you have a really big snow blower. ItÂs a point of pride. You're not on the hook for their driveways or their plow berms (unless your neighbors are old, non-able-bodied, or have babies on or in their person). If you only ever shovel exactly to the property line, youÂre probably a jerk. Also, if an outsider moves here, it's your moral obligation to coach them through their first winter.

This state is split up into several areas, mostly because of its topography and resources. Going from one group of counties to another can be culturally shocking. We're in that clump of river/coal mining/farming counties where our jargon and attitudes are very similar to the states adjoining us to the East and South, all considered the Northwestern edges of Appalachia.

Our idea of a cosmopolitan ethnic foods section in a supermarket is canned black beans and more than one brand of taco sauce. LOL.

Food is brought to houses when people pass on. They showed up at our house last year with enough food to feed an army. Pot lucks are the norm for social functions, and you can expect various versions of meat loaf, hard baked spaghetti casseroles, and somebody's home canned version of relish. Always.

If a car breaks down, people don't just drive around it. It's a common sight to see strangers pull over and a group of them pushing a disabled vehicle off the road until help arrives.

The bank tellers all know us by name and dog biscuits come out with our receipts at the drive through window. They also know our dog's names. One local bank was taken over by a large out of town entity last year. I was part of the exodus from it because our other local bank actually calls us if there is a question or problem.

You do not keep 'the box open' at intersections here. You drive into the road, blinkers or not, and stomp the gas if you see two car lengths open to make a turn against traffic. Scary. Likewise folks do not seem to know what a crosswalk is.

If somebody says they are going to the stock market, it means the livestock auction midweek at the barn in town.

It's the norm for someone to say him and me are going out, not he and I.

Deer season is a holiday and many work vacations and school absences are expected in that timeframe.

When heating fuel goes up, so does the sale of stoves. It's not just wood or pellet here, corn is a viable option.

What I find sad, however, is the way our community is seen by outsiders. Large companies come in and think just because we are quaint by their standards, that we are ignorant. They ask if our businesses have fax machines .....or do we know what a fax is? I've sat in job orientations where they've poked fun at our houses, our airports, our downtown and think it's perfectly OK to do so and we courteously take it while at the same time, they're trying to teach us their core principles about discrimination. They don't consider Appalachians as a cultural group, I guess.

My father always saluted drivers, too.

Nowadays, I still see it very occasionally, when I'm approaching an oncoming car (or tractor) on a narrow road, & we're both watching each other, maybe a little warily.

Calliope, I don't hear "me & him are going out" much any more;
it's been replaced by "it was just between he & I"!

Deer season is a holiday and many work vacations and school absences are expected in that time frame.

Ditto here. In fact, when planning events everyone is careful not to plan any big fund raiser for the first weekend of deer season. No one would show up!

I have observed public outrage aimed at school boards and political bodies for their underhandedness in scheduling controversial votes (in the board or legislative bodies' interest) during deer gun season (9 days beginning the weekend before Thanksgiving and ending the weekend after) or on "Packer Nights." The understanding is that these are sacred times, that no one is expected to exercise civic duties in the midst of them, and scheduling votes at this time is evidence enough of malicious intent.

Stupid work story:
This week I had a NY vendor try to negotiate something I considered outlandish and wasn't inclined to give him. His sales tactic felt a lot like extortion to me, and I called him on a few of his exaggerations and dissimulations with simple directness and Midwestern politeness. I repeated a few times that my answer was "no," why it was no, that he was welcome to go over my head if he wanted with no hard feelings from me, and copied the chain of command above my head on the conversations.

I sat down with my boss and my boss' boss and explained my reasoning, and invited them to reverse my answer if they saw fit. They agreed with my reasoning, and said as much in a letter to him.

Four of us from the office (all Midwesterners) sat around afterwards and expressed bewilderment at his tone with us. One said: "You know, he talks so much about 'our relationship' but he doesn't seem to understand what that means. It bothers me that I can't tell if he's just being a normal New Yorker or a complete a$$hole!" We all laughed in agreement because we understand that those are two very different things. We sincerely couldn't discern if we were dealing with a simple cultural difference in communication styles (which we'd be inclined to overlook) or if he was being something else. We gave him the benefit of the doubt, but I'm inclined to think otherwise...

"Deer season is a holiday".

same thing here, too, along with dove season, Superbowl Sunday, & any day the Cowboys are playing!

Jazmynsmom,

I'm sorry about your work experience. That contractor was a sorry a**, and he'd be considered the same here.

I feel like visitors can get to know a New York City that is not scary, rude, or all that alien as long as they visit a neighborhood that is not in Manhattan between 34th street and 59th street. Or if they have a friend who can show them their favorite things about the city. Not all eight million of us are tough -- if we were, we'd have all wiped eachother out long ago like so many over-aggressive dinosaurs. Plenty of us are soft in several places or even all over, and want a quiet lovely friendly place to sit and enjoy a muffin, some music, a piece of art. I think the only thing you really need to be in New York City is either very persistent or skilled at avoidance. Not the bad, head-in-the-sand avoidance, but rather the graceful, practical slipping by things, the ballet of many moving parts managing to move forward without colliding.

M:

I fear I might have expressed myself poorly, because I wasn't trying to insinuate the two things (NY-ish-ness and a-hole-ish-ness) were similar... or that one was in any way a prerequisite for the other... only that they were equally impenetrable to me. The thing on which our confusion hinged was how to interpret the guy's persistence. That, and what I perceived as his audacity. But I recognized that there's a regional relevance to those traits, so I overlooked them assuming I was missing something... had he been a cheese-head born and bred, he wouldn't have gotten the benefit of the doubt, and I wouldn't have worried about it at all.

I am amazed by the nuanced behavioral codes of densely populated areas. Having grown up in a state with a population density of just over nine people per square mile, I'm sure it's not a surprise that such behavioral codes seem foreign to me, and I don't always understand the correct response. (And small wonder that I consider waving mandatory.) Pretty much everything I know about decency and polite behavior would be interpreted differently in your neighborhood.

For example, when a new neighbor moves in within a stone's throw from my house, it is my duty, and the duty of all my neighbors, to bring the new neighbor some sort of baked good, introduce ourselves, find out what they're all about, determine if they need references to good local dentists, babysitters, pet sitters, cardiologists, whatever. After the introduction, the level of familiarity is up to them, but I am obligated to make the first step. I'm pretty sure if you moved into a new building and you had a handful of neighbors treat you this way, you'd run screaming and consider them freaks... probably with good reason!

This series of threads is fascinating to me, and thank you for starting it.

Just a note, where my daughter and husband live in the sandhills, the county has 713 sq. miles and there are 502 people residing in it. I believe that works out to a hair over .7 people per sq. mile, some less that mrobbins 66000+ people per sq. mile.