Hello Tyler and welcome(from toronto :)),

The area seems a little short but with these lower wattage lights, it could be okay. I would advise against using 24W T5s though, because then you might as well just use T8s which are cheaper. If you really want the high light/small space combo, the 54W T5s are probably much better (if you want to grow really awesome higher light plants like dends/catts)...but if you go for those, you may need a taller cabinet, mainly for allowing more flexibilty in what you can grow (ie with more height space, you can have things closer and further away). For reference, I have high light plants about a foot to 2 feet away from the lights.

Another suggestion is to get compact fluorescent bulbs, but with a long narrow area like that, it might get a little annoying to get the space right.

PS - where are you getting your T5s from? :)

-Cal

I thought the wattage was a little odd as well. Most talk on gardenweb about these seems to be talking about 54W tubes. I figured they were talking about the 4'tubes though. The ones I've been looking at are 2'.

The place I was looking at is down on Eastern ave, near the Distillery district.

I tried to post a link, but this site won't let me do it for some reason. Bustan gardening supplies. You can find it with a google search.

Thanks for your help :)

Tyler

Tyler,

AHSUPPLY.COM (probably others too) have some aquarium type lights that might fit that space very well. Not sure about them shipping to CA, but something similar is probably available up north. I used their site to order and build a 2x55watt kit and am very happy. I believe each 55 watt bulb produces @4000 lumens.

I've actually replaced the worn-out 55's with 55's that I found at another site, their's were less expensive than AH's and were offered in more 'color' ranges.

HTH,

Bob

Ah yeah I've shopped at bustan before .. it's right near the university. The 54W lamps are much brighter and come in 2' as well as 4' lengths. I found a cheap place to get bulbs out east near Scarborough (hydrotech hydroponics...their website seems to be down but they had an excellent online catalogue a while back..12 bucks a bulb, compared to the 30 something bustan charges) but the fixture is harder to find. To the best of my knowledge, 54W bulbs cannot be used with anything but a 54W fixture. I have heard that different quality reflectors will change the amount of light you get, and I chickend out and ordered a brand-name one.

Like Bob, I also ordered my fixtures from an aquarium shop in vancouver (J&L aquatics) as even with shipping and handling, it was cheaper than getting it from bustan.

I didn't even think of checking aquarium supplies. Thanks for the tip. I'll definately do some more shopping around before I make the purchase.

So it sounds like the lighting levels won't be too much for the space, but what about the heat? I understand they don't have much of a heat output, but even a little can amount to a large temperature change in an enclosed space. If the space is too small, I could just get rid of the cabinet and re-fit the closet I've been hiding it in for the light setup. It would allow for a little more room....I'd just have to buy a bench to set everything up on.

I'm afraid the lighting is going to be a required purchase now. I don't know why i did it, but I was surfing e-bay on the weekend and before I knew it I had bought 7 new orchids.

On a side note, I got a bit frustrated when I got home from work today. It looks like a little critter has been nibbling the root tips off of one of the phals I put outside for the summer. :(

"So it sounds like the lighting levels won't be too much for the space..."

But will it be enough? Regular 2' tubes of the T12 variety were 20W. I do not know what the wattage of 2' T8 bulbs are but their 4' counterparts are 33W. Bottom line, with T5 you wouldn't be doing all that much better than conventional fluorescent and they don't do well at all on their own. Heat definitely would be an issue. One approach is to have the bulbs outside the case shining light in through a glass top. The other will involve lots of fans or even A/C ($$$). Small cases IMO just don't work for orchid keeping. Orchids are not small plants and they are adapted to very well ventilated environments. Yes, one could confine themselves to miniature plants only but... ... the double elipsis tells you what I think of that approach. Closet sized systems are a little better but you will need two or three levels because the light penetration of a single bank of lights is only a couple of feet or less. The orchid keeper just entering the hobby has a much better variety of light options than 10 or 20 years aga: Wonderlite, LED (white or blue/red), HID, CFL. Tube type lights are for fish, or seedlings. At least if one must use tubes for whatever reason use 4' or longer. They nick you hard on 2' tubes because they are a special order and the 2000 lumen output can be equaled by any household 20W CFL sold at the Dollar Tree.

H

Hi, Tyler,

Another option is to go back to supplemental lights in front of the windows. I've got 5'x 5' windows and a set of double sliding glass doors out here in the 'burbs. The glass doors have 2 octopus floor lamps w/ CFLs, and some fixtures are aimed straight at the doors. The windows have T8s and CFLs right against them. From the street, it's quite the show.

I figure the cops will have a good laugh if they check it out - crazy orchid people.

Unless you don't want the law in your place for some other reason... :)

Whitecat8

It looks like I've waded into a bit of a controvertial topic. I did some reading in the Growing Under Lights forum, and there are almost as many opinions over there regarding lighting options as there are posters.

You are 100% correct on the cost of the 2' fixtures Howard. I looked into the lighting supply sources suggested above, and the 4' fixture at J&L aquatics was about $4 more expensive than the 2' fixtures. The 3' fixtures were considerably more expensive than the 4'. I'm not sure about multiple banks of lights though. Before giving away most of my orchids a few years ago, I only had 25. I hadn't really considered getting more than that for now, as I'm space limited even disregarding the cabinet. I've got a 1 bedroom apartment downtown Toronto.

Calvin, what is your experience so far growing under the T5s?

It sounds like the cabinet is out for sure, but I'll keep looking into what I can do with the closet idea (600 sq.ft apartment, and 5 closets....go figure...), and while I would never intentionally grow anything illegal you never know what one of my friends would try to slip in there. One of them is especially fond of her famous brownies :).

There's another orchid grower on my street. They're much higher up than I am, but their kitchen window is like a beacon in the night :)

My neighbors say I have a landing strip,

One corner of my living room - Nov. 07
{{gwi:184824}}

This is a small room with only North light. I put some lower light plants and seedlings there with CFL's. This room is warmer than the living room.

{{gwi:184826}}

If you use floor lamps you can set up lights almost anywhere. Of course, near windows would provide more light.

Jane

Jane, love your landing strip lights. :)

Tyler, if you're looking over your plants every coupla days - hard to miss an invasive species. :) If your friend knew the stakes were orchid life and death, maybe she'd find another home for the brownie ingredients.

The bedroom:

{{gwi:184827}}

The living room:

{{gwi:140833}}

You can let your lights shine and start establishing your good guy cred w/ the cops.

Easy for me to say - WC8

Great pics of setups, everyone!

Tyler - The 4' T5s have been working well for me..so far at least. I've had them for about 5 months now, and the plants are growing with no additional ambient lighting; here are some images of new growth that I've observed from various genera under the lights: (Sorry I didn't manage to get a full setup pic...my camera died just as I captured the last photo)

{{gwi:184828}}
Cynoches barthiorum

{{gwi:184829}}
Phal. equestris

{{gwi:184831}}
Aeranthes grandiflora (3rd bud now)

{{gwi:152102}}
Aer. grandiflora new growth

{{gwi:184833}}
Dend. Lori's Star

{{gwi:184835}}
Dend. capra new growth

Caveat - nothing besides the aeranthes has actually bloomed under the lights, although I have buds on the dends (as you can see above) as well as a dend tobaense x cruentum (dend. peng seng) I have. The cynoches is the most impressive, having sprung that huge growth from an old 3 inch rootless pbulb I ordered just 5 months ago.

Hope this helps!
-Cal

Great pictures everyone! I hope I can get some plants looking that good soon. I ended up ordering a 4' t5 fixture, and I'll see how that goes for a while. If I need more light, I'll look at getting some CFLs. A buddy is coming by this weekend to help me clear all the junk out of the closet so I can set things up. I have next week off work, so hopefully I can get everything set up.

3 of the 7 orchids I ordered arrived today. Miniature dendrobiums, all variations on Den moniliforme. Cute and quite tiny.

Love those little bitty Dens, and I've got 8 Den moniliformes. Post pix when you can.

Oh, and where did you get your plants?

Whitecat8

I found them on e-bay through Tropical Gardens, here in Toronto. How do you grow yours? I'm thinking of mounting mine, but they look so small and delicate I'm almost afraid to breath on them.

Tyler

Yes, please enlighten us, WC8, on your dend moniloformes! I've been dying to try one as well...Calvin (the owner of tropical gardens) is a pal of mine and I've been meaning to buy one off him but I've never got around to it.

Tyler, which plants did you get? My bias is for unmounting as many mounties as possible - the daily misting/spraying/watering isn't for me. However, the grower may be able to advise you.

My small Dens may not be as small as yours. They're all in pots:

Den aberrans
Den ceraula (gonzalesii)
Den laevifolium
Den sulcatum
Den unicum

My only Den hybrid w/ moniliforme in the background is Den Himezakura 'Sanokku,' a Yamamoto nobile-type Den that stays about 10" tall - definitely not tiny and fragile. Easy (for my conditions, anyway) and recommended, if you like that type Den. He's also got several others with more brilliant flowers.

Calvin, my Den mons are still an experiment: They may not get enough light here to bloom well.

Winter and spring, '07, I got 8, almost all from Jason Fischer @ Orchids Ltd. (orchidweb.com). They were in sphag in plastic pots, and I repotted them the same way this spring.

They've been in the cooler living room (see picture above) w/ E/SE light from the double sliding glass doors. Supplemental light is from 2 octopus lamps w/ 26W CFL bulbs. Winter night temps are 58F; summer night temps are in the mid-60s - low 70s. Humidity % are low 20s - 40s.

Jason speaks Japanese and has been studying Den mon culture w/ some of the old Japanese growers for several years.

His culture notes:

1. No fertilizer, ever. (Of course, the guy @ New World Orchids told me he brings back a special fertilizer from Japan.)

2. For water, Jason said I should add 10% of my (wretched quality) tap water to the reverse osmosis water every time, so the plant will get enough minerals and trace elements. If your tap water is suitable for orchids, you can use it all the time. (Now I'm using only water from a nearby spring that local orchid growers swear by and add no tap water.)

3. November through February, make sure the sphag is "crispy dry" before watering.

4. From March through May, the sphag should be "barely damp" before watering.

5. June & July  the sphag can be "soaking wet" almost all the time - very slight drying.

6. August through October - sphag barely damp before watering.

7. Once a month, spray w/ horticultural oil to prevent whiteflies. (This may apply more to commercial greenhouses than home growing; however, I've found whiteflies on a couple of plants occasionally.)

8. Summer outside, if possible.

This winter/spring, 2-3 plants had only 3-4 flowers each. Another plant has several buds on it now, but they may not bloom.

I'll give them another couple of years. If you've got more light, yours could flower much better.

WC8

I've enjoyed peeking into everyone's growing spaces, and seeing what kind of supplemental lighting is being used!

I have a few lights, myself, but nothing as nice as those wonderful floor lamps! If my husband comes back from his trip up north without the light system I'm borrowing from a friend who isn't using it right now, I'm definitely going to get a couple of those floor lamps with multiple arms!

Even though I don't use that many lights right now, my east and north windows throw out beacons of light at night, and I'm really surprised that the local Sheriff hasn't stopped in to see what the crop is!

Thanks for sharing those great photos! Beautiful plants, everyone!

The three Dens I got recently were Dendrobium moniliforme 'Tosa Fukurin', Dendrobium moniliforme `Ogon Maru', and Dendrobium moniliforme 'Kimaru'. I have them in sphag, in small 2" ceramic pots presently. Even there they look a little overpotted, though the moss is drying out pretty much every day. They came in sphag and I think I'll keep them in sphag for now, and look into mounting them another time. No point stressing them out even more after shipping.

I have them under lights now :) My light fixture arrived this morning and I went out after to buy the lights. It's very bright...looks brighter than the sun on my balcony outside. Despite the brightness though, the fixture hasn't raised the temperature much after running straight for a few hours. Just in case, I put a small fan on the floor in there.

Thanks for the culture tips WC8. I've been reading up on them on my own, and most also mention a required temperature drop during the winter for flowering. I'm not sure I can provide that with the current setup, but I'll try to think of something.

I have some space to fill in with new orchids now. :)

I have 125 watt CFL's on in my greenhouse 12 hours/day in winter, and i'm sure the local gendarmes must have taken a peek at what's growing in there. They never ring the doorbell, so I assume they know the difference bet oncidiums and cannabis.

I run supplemental lighting 14 hours a day on timers, and since my apartment is on the second floor, anyone interested in getting a look at my "crop" would HAVE to knock on the door! They'd be met by a pack of barking dogs, at which point they'd probably think the lighting WAS from a crop of cannabis, that the dogs were there to protect my interests, and that I WAS running the local "grow house"!

I can picture uniformed officers tripping up my stairs, guns drawn, shouting orders... dogs barking all around... arriving at the top, only to find that a few orchids were responsible for the mass of light spilling through the windows at night! What an image!

And it's only going to get brighter as I add more lighting!