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azponder

Evaporation...or a leak?!

19 years ago

I am ready to bang my head against a wall. I hired a landscaper to revamp our backyard and install a pond. It was supposed to take a week and instead took nearly four. They filled it and it leaked horribly, they patched it and it appeared to be fine but now I am not so sure.

It is approximately 1,000 gallons and since Friday morning the pond has lost 5 inches of water. Because of the plant shelves and the slopes I can't calculate how much that is but I have to say around 200-300 gallons would be a safe estimate.

It has been almost 100 degrees here in Arizona and it is the desert after all, so I know there has got to be some evaporation going on. The waterfall kicks up a lot of spray and a large portion of it is a think layer of water running over a large rock. I had a float installed because I knew in the summer I would lose a lot of water, but I can't believe I would lose 1/3rd of my volume in 2 days.

The pond is concrete block walls with an EPDM liner then another layer of concrete and mortar on top of the liner. I read somewhere to expect for the boulders and concrete to soak up some of the water before stabilizing. I just can't think that evaporation plus the soaking to equate to that much water being lost so fast.

Does anyone know how much water one could expect to lose in high temp/ low humidity environments? How about any tips on finding leaks?

Comments (15)

  • 19 years ago

    That sounds like a lot of loss in 2 days.
    If there is a leak, the pond will lose water down to the leak and then stop (if the leak is in the side wall).
    With the temp in the 100's, there will be a lot of evaporation.
    As an experiment, fill a bucket with water and see if it evaporates at the same rate as the pond.
    Good luck
    Don

  • 19 years ago

    When we have 90+ temps and 5 percent humidity I lose about an inch a week. 5" seems like too much for 1 day.

    Just as an aside, I've had quite a few landscape projects done at my house, and it ALWAYS takes a lot longer then they estimate it will.

    Why do you have concrete and rocks over your liner? Is it over the entire liner?

  • 19 years ago

    I remember years ago when I had a above ground swimming pool that when I had a leak, if it was on the bottom, it was easy to find. I would just walk around and when I would fine a soft spot I had found the leak. The ground would always get soft where the leak was located. Hope this helps.

  • 19 years ago

    Well depending whether your in full sun or not you could loss a few inches of water a day . I know with my fiberglass pond I loss 2" a day during the summer months and I know theres no way this pond is leaking because i built it from scratch and the fiberglass is thick.

  • 19 years ago

    The only way that I can see that you could loose that kind of water a day is to have a very large waterfall/stream on the pond or a leak.
    Mike

  • 19 years ago

    check your waterfall, it may be there.
    fill up your pond and shut down the waterfall all
    day. If you don't loose water it's in the waterfall.
    Joann

  • 19 years ago

    I agree with Joann. Your water loss is probaby being caused by your waterfall.

    Whenever I start losing water I always check the waterfall first. And that is usually where the pond is losing water.

  • 19 years ago

    I lose water due to evaporation during the summer but it amounts to about 30 gallons every 4 or 5 days when the temperature is in the 100's. That is out of a total of about 15000 gallons of pond and I have two falls plus a 40 foot stream. Hope that information will help some. My guess is you have a leak whether it is at the falls or somewhere else. Do you have any photos to post so we can see what you have?

    Here is a link that might be useful: My pond the way it was before the freeze.

  • 19 years ago

    Keep in mind that when liners get hot they become soft and stretch. I made a splash guard for my filter falls box in December when it was 20 and once the temp rose to 60 I had a huge leak. The liner stretched and looked like it pratically buckled. Luckily I stare (study) at my pond several times a day.

    Leaks are fixed!

    With adding that much water, you'll have a happy crop of algae in no time.

    I would inspect every possible place for a leak. Turn off the falls to keep the perimeter dry from the splash and spray. Try the tips above and let the pond leak empty till it stops.

    Maybe you have a plumbing leak? My system froze solid because I shut it down due to a falls leak and then tried to thaw out the plumbing with warm water. The pipes in the ground froze first becoming the catalyst and the rest followed. No leaks found now that temps are above freezing.

  • 19 years ago

    Uggggghhhhhhh!

    I knew I had a leak. The damn contractor actually started yelling...yelling.....at me that evaporation was the culprit and that all us "damn hand holding clients" think evaporation means leaks. I wasn't about to pay him the final installment until I new for sure.

    I used some string and measured every three hours and marked the depth. It was dropping at nearly the same rate at night and during the day. He tells me I am being "anal" and that I had to give him "his" money since the job was done and it stopped being "my" money.

    I calculate the surface area and tell him that I lost 400 gallons in 40 hours. He STILL says its evaporation. Then I discover that they left the float on....and the little toilet style system has been steadily flowing water in. That meant my leak was ridiculously worse than I even thought. Once he learns this he doesn't even have stones to apologize he just says "fine I'll send a guy out and when we fixes whatever tiny leak there "might" be we will fix it. But you better drain it so they can work on Monday". Ya I had to drain it. I just wanted em gone so I complied.

    As I come out of my house the next morning...the first thing they did was fill it. I wanted to scream but didn't. They bust out some of the rocks on the side wall and LOW AND BEHOLD....a massive leak was pouring down behind the liner under the concrete and filling a nice 100gallon or so pocket that drained in to the earth under my new patio slab and pond. The ground was sloppy wet.

    They patch it up. Rebuild the side wall and PRESTO...I have barely lost a few centimeters of water in 18 hours.

    Literally I could not possibly imagine a bigger ^@$!head then this contractor. He was fully and completely ready to shove a leaky pond down my throat then pay the one day's wages and 100 bucks in supplies to fix a leak on a 14,000 dollar job.

    If you live in Arizona, avoid Dynamic Landscapes at all cost.

  • 19 years ago

    I am glad that they finally got it fixed for you.

  • 19 years ago

    AZponder, you should report him to the Better Business Bureau. Not only for his failure to do it right the first time, but for his rude manner (yelling?? what kind of business jerk does that??) and insisting that you pay before getting the finished project.

    I hope you can pond in peace now.

    Brenda

  • 19 years ago

    Wow, what a jerk. You should have took photos of his shoddy workmanship. Like Brenda report him to the BBB, you may save someone else from going through this. Good luck.

  • 19 years ago

    This is a perfect example of sticking to your guns and not letting a contractor try to bully you or try to make you feel as if you are the problem. azponder Good Work!

  • 15 years ago

    I have run into the same issue, except I built an in-ground cement pond, with a second layer of masonry cement, then paint, then cement sealer. The water level dropped about 6' in one day, over a few hours; and this was after the 15' long rock stream was shutdown.
    It has since stabilized at about 12' down.
    Do cement ponds tend to absorb water when they are new?

    Here is a link that might be useful: pond