Some will form keikis on a flowering stem, others never will.

Keikis!!!!! They are the last thing you should want. The main object of the exercise should be blooms.

Keikis, dont want keikis? Why not?

I have one that is growing like a weed. It has started and completed growth on 2 leaves (starting on a third) and at least doubled the amount of roots in 4 months. I mean, I can watch this thing grow. It looks different every day. It is now putting out either a keiki or a flower spike- it is too soon to say. But what I can say for sure is...it is one very happy phal. :-)

Instead of fiddling around with those keikis you could be using the space to grow other quality Phals. Keikis are a pain on kingianums, nobile dendrobiums etc etc.. Their only value is at a local orchid society show where they are sold for a couple of dollars at beginner's corner.

We have been through this a million times .re. Chopping off the spikes on run of the mill Phals. The Phal experts at the local society do not fiddle around with keikis. At the end of the show season here which lasts several months they chop all the spikes off at the base.

I do not have a Phal. house. My Phal space is about 4 foot x 1 foot in this slob room. There is the kitchen windowsill but I am wary about using that lest the kitchen owner stops feeding me.

Of course, there is plenty of room down the backyard, but it is a Phalaenopsis death zone out there.

I have a kiekie too! It can take about 6-8 months for them to be able to part with the parent plant. The key is to wait until it has roots around 2-4 inches long. I am keeping my baby too see how long it will go from baby to adult. I have at least 3 kiekies developing. I think some take longer than others. I've grown kiekies before and gave them away as gifts. I plan on using my kiekies in plant exchanges. It will be a clone of the parent plant. Do you have any photos to share? Happy growing and I hope they work out for you!

Here's my kiekie it's a month old and now has to short fat roots on it. One big leaf and one small one.

...if you are growing phals for enjoyment purposes, who is to tell you whether you should want flowers or keikis? The keiki on my phal is growing from the base. Should I cut that one off too? ;-)

At the top of the page there is a word. Discussions!
If you want to dumb down this site to newbies only that is fine. BUT there is a price to be paid.....
And the answer to your question is no! Basal keikis are of value.
About time I retired from this forum..2002 to 2014 is too long an innings.
To say I am extremely annoyed is an understatement! Didn't you read post three? I want blooms from my four X 1 foot growing area.
Newbies should aspire to be great growers, like the phal experts in our local society who do not muck around with cutting to a node etc. etc. and while i'm about it. wacky and wonderful (the USA) should get with the times and go metric.

This post was edited by arthurm on Sun, Sep 21, 14 at 12:51

Usually, when a Phal makes keikes it means the orginal plant is in trouble, like dying. If a Phal is healthy and happy, it makes flowers. Some Phals do make kekies when healthy but the common variety are usually in trouble.

Most growers cut the spike off when the initial flowers fade to allow the plant to grow new leaves and have flowers. Leaving the old spike on can grow keikies but you won't get flowers. Your original plant may also die.

Tamela mentions a basal keiki from the base of the mother plant. That usually occurs when the mother plant is dying.

How you choose to grow your orchids is up to you. If you posted some pictures of the mother plant we might be able to advise you better.

Most growers do not want keikis because it signals something is wrong with the plant. You will get babies but they will take a long time to flower. If you don't correct the original problem, they will suffer the same problem as your original plant.

Jane

Arthur,

Just wanted to let you know I truly appreciate your expertise and advise. Despite whoever and whatever they say, I am sure there are a lot of people like myself valued your opinions. Never mind those who don't! So, please don't "retire" from this forum! Many thanks,

Tanie

This post was edited by Tanie51 on Sun, Sep 21, 14 at 18:27

Those are wonderful, once in a while I get one on a phal.

From what I have read temperatures over 80'F encourage keike growth.

I got my first kieke on a phal and I didn't do anything that I know of to cause the kieke. My mother plant looks very healthy and happy.
I am only keeping it because I've never had one before. I'm fairly new to orchids so it's yet another learning experience for me.

Arthur please don't let anyone ruffle your feathersðÂÂÂ.your a very valuable asset to this forum and I am sure I speak for a lot of people here when I say.it would be a great loss if you should leave.i myself have always look forward to your expert advise.we all ask questions and advise and I suppose it's our choice who we choose to listen to.looking forward to another 50 years of expertise. Sincerely, Velleta

I am glad for the discussion. I was given an orchid that had one. Thought it was normal. The plant, three actually, had been neglected. This was on one of them. I cut it off and transplanted both.

If I'm upsetting anyone I'll leave the forum. Jane, I wasn't the one talking about a basal kiekie. You have me mixed up with someone else. Didn't mean to upset anyone.

Two of my healthiest phals, currently in active states of growth, are producing basal keikis.

Tamela, we all try to help each other with problems and new orchid growers have many of the same problems as experienced. The only way you learn is to read and ask questions. Every question is a learning experience for everyone.

I wrote my reply above with the word, 'usually.' But, there are exceptions to the rules and there are also some healthy orchids who make keikies freely. Usually, those are plants which are not sold at big-box stores. But anything is possible.

With common Phals, kekies can be a sign that the plant is having problems.

I didn't want to spend trying to teach something which comes by growing and learning. Most people want flowers. Most orchids are not terribly attractive when not in bloom, especially Phals with a long skinny spike that produces a few flowers or keikis. Flowers are what we all strive for. Keikies are not what most are striving for.

Most new growers leave the spike on their Phal because they don't realize that cutting it allows the plant to grow new fresh spikes with nicely placed flowers.

Most of the information about keikis and Phals is on the internet and is worth reading. I asked you to post a photo of the mother plant because I suspected it might be having problems.

I know you didn't write about the basal keiki. Again, most Phals will grow one when the mother plant is having problems or dying. But again, exceptions are possible.

The important thing is to grow as well and informed as you can. Orchids are not hard once you learn the in's and outs of them. They are different from 'dirt plants.' But you'll gain the most experience by growing and asking questions.

I'm sorry if my response upset you and that wasn't my intention. Arthurm is just having a bad day. He's a wonderful source of information.

Post a pic of your mother plant. When your keikis make some small roots, they can be potted in very small pots (1inch) with some sphag and small bark. Just don't overwater and give bright light.

Good luck,
Jane

This is very interesting because i thought the same thing, about sick phals growing keikis. I have only had phals for 4 months, and 2 of my ten phals are growing keikis now. Heres the newest. Open to interpretation. It could still be a flower spike. But it isnt mitten shaped as of now.
The other one is grown out now, with 3 leaves.

This post was edited by Lauraeli on Sun, Sep 21, 14 at 23:51

There's no keiki in that picture, newer roots left and right. Flower spike looks spent to me also.

IMO, sometimes kekies are genetic (equestris is a good example), other time it is because of growing conditions or a last effort by a plant to survive.

If you have the room and patience, may as well see if you can bring it to fruition.

I have an equestris, a bastiani(basal and spike) and a pulcherimma (multiple basal) that are throwing keikies and I'll probably keep them all but the the equestris as I have 2 already. I'll separate the bastianii and leave the pulcherrima to grow in the same pot.

I should post pics of the pulcherrima, it is the strangest phal I've ever grown, 7 or 8 basal keikies, multiple leaves growing from the crowns (looks like a rossette), probably @30 leaves in total. I'm not sure it will make it many more years, it seems to be growing itself to death.

Anyhow, good luck.

Bob

I've given up on the keike idea based on what I've read on this post. I thought it would be a good way to produce viable plantlets as gifts. I am an orchid Noob and my real passion is butterfly gardening. I have predominantly Phals indoors to keep me going and growing thru our harsh Wisconsin winters. I do well with them and I would not want to stress them out.
Thank you all for the rapid responses to my post.

John

Bob, i guarantee you that is not a new root on the left. I would bet money on it.

Dont worry about the old flower spike. That has been dead and brown pretty much since I got it.

Laureli,
You're on ;-), I'm positive that is a root with a slightly deformed tip. A basal keike doesn't exhibit the velum you see on bottom half of that root.

Why not cut the old spike back to 1/2" above where it emerges?

Bob

This post was edited by westoh on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 12:53

Westoh not a Kiki or root but a new spike.i am with Laureli.velleta

Oh and just so I am clear the little protrusion towards the front is a new root
Velleta

I still say root, what appears to be velum on that bottom of that left 'thing' seems to be the real indicator. Time will tell :-)

Bob

I think the short one on the left is the flower spike! Again, I'm in this orchid things only over a year but it looks very much a spike to me. The one just coming out in the bottom next to the old spike is probably a root or a double roots.

It's not a bet, just what I think from what I have had, as you said, time will tell.

Tanie

I think its a spike.

Jane

I am leaning towards spike as well, since it has not opened up the way I would expect a keiki to have done by now. Still waiting tho :-) it has not changed much. I think it noticed i was watching it...

Not wanting to get too mired here what a pretty heavy discussion, but it seems to me that if the mother plant is healthy, the keiki is something to be happy about. Pot it up, tend it and give it to a friend when it is big. My sister has a basal keiki on a very healthy phal, so who knows why it got started. Plants have as much variation as people, i think, and some are just mavericks.

I've never had a keiki on a phal before, except for one very strange mini i bought a trader Joes. it had no central leaf crown. looked like a half keiki/half bloom. Weird (I wish i'd taken a photo) i wondered for the longest time what it would do, and it finally put out a plant off on the side, which is now doing well. Janine

Janine, if you go back up to the top you will find that the original discussion was about keikis on bloom spikes.

I do not even think about basal growths as keikis, but there you go, I suppose they are.

Some Phalaenopsis will grow them (basal growths) as last throw of the dice, others will grow them from healthy plants and they are a bonus.

This post was edited by arthurm on Sun, Sep 28, 14 at 13:20

I am no orchid expert by any means (yet) but I think by reading all the answers to this post everyone has made great points. And the #1 most important point about phals is the growing conditions...myself I live in florida and in the summer they flourish with the high temperatures and high humidity. and when I leave the spikes to grow they typically either re bloom or grow keikes (3 keikes this year). So for the people who are growing phals and don't have the excessive humidity and warmth that works well for these plants (or grow them inside) I'm sure growing conditions are different and maybe cutting the spike off is best for the plant in these conditions. and whether leaving the spike on or cutting it off is better is probably up to where and what conditions the plants grow in...weather one person is right or wrong really depends on growing conditions. Mine are kept outside with no direct sunlight on a covered porch. I myself came here for help and advice and not for criticizim. We all should work together using each others skills and advice to grow the best orchids that we can helping each other along the way and welcoming new growers as they come. I hope to one day myself be an expert orchid grower. I am looking to expand my collection and im sure will need help along the way.

It's a spike :-D it finished blooming just before I bought it, too. That was 4 months ago, a week after I bought my first phal. This is my second home-grown spike! The first is on my dendrobium.

And for fun, here is the keiki on my other phal. It is starting on a third leaf.

Congratulations!!

Tanie

I was on team spike too... how many points did we get?

This was the most confused thread, Leafhead was the original poster. Lauraeli posted photos of her Phals. I think many of us were responding to the original poster...at least I did. I thought they were the same person.

It is better to post separate posts because I feel little time was given to the OP.

One other point. Most new growers get their Phals from big-box stores or supermarkets. It is impossible to know what is behind them without a tag.

My initial response dealt with a new grower whose plant might be in trouble. That is the usual reason for keiki's. To turn this thread into a complicated one, it not useful to beginners.

There are Phals which keiki when healthy. I have some. It is part of their genetics. Most big-box Phals do not carry those genes...maybe some do but no way to tell.

I think it is important for a OP to post photos and give description of their growing conditions. How long they have been growing this plant and what lighting exposure. Most important-what state/country they live.

This thread should not have turned into an argument. It was directed to the OP and should have stayed with that person. More information could have been given.

I didn't realize there were two different people posting their photos. I think it was unfair to Leafhead OP, who might have needed more info on his plant.

Jane

As Arthur and orchidnick can recall, posts in this forum used to be heated and fun, kind of like this one... I think everyone chiming in and with pictures and "discussing" leaves for a good thread... I used to be on here years ago and just recently came back... I don't think we should shy away from input from all sides.

that side I'm on the side that says keiki's aren't a good idea... but I realize that to kids and noobs it's the excitement of seeing something sprout... like sowing your first veggie garden or wildflower garden. As leafhead is into butterfly gardens, I love them and the best butterfly gardens boast diversity with different plants flowering at any one time... but unfortunately orchids are different... their flowers are too energy and time consuming... many flowering plants grow and flower within the limited scope of a single season, or in the case of northern temperate perennials grow in a single season then go dormant, once you sprout you have to get going if you're going spread your seed so to speak... coming from tropical ongoing usually consistent climates orchids can really take their time, hence an orchid can take so d&*^ long to flower from flask! So weakening them like growing keiki's just isn't a good idea if you want flowers... and yes we're talking about commercial run of the mill phals... a number of species keiki readily... but even those can put a bit too much energy into that and not so much blooms.

Maybe that puts a little more insight into situation? or sometimes I enjoy preaching to choir...

I owe you! I've got a nice spiking equestris that came from a keike that I could send your way.

I posted yesterday but it seems to be gone now?

Good growing,

Bob

I did not imply I was the OP, and I am certainly not going to start a new thread if I do not have a question to ask. The pictures were on subject. OP asked about keikis, I shared my experience with them. Sharing experience(s) is not something to frown upon.

Lauraeli,

"I certainly" think that you seem a bit feisty/negative anytime someone says anything that you don't agree with. Authur just stated that a phal growing keikies causes stress to the plant, he is absolutely correct in this. If you grow for flowers, you probably don't want keikes taking away from that effort.

Jane mentioned that a new thread probably should have been started to discuss the keike/spike/root on your phal, and you get snippy with her. I'm not saying I totally agree with Jane, but why get snippy with her over that comment? Jane is always as helpful on this forum as anyone and seems to go out of her way to keep things rolling at times, bad form on your part.

Good luck getting much help from some of us in the future, we may not want the 'throwback' you seem to like to chuck out there.

I've been here for @ 10 years and I like a little controversy on the forum, but it needs to be directed correctly and in a friendly, helpful manner.

Bob

Not snippy, just 'to-the-point', as it were. The new growth on my phal wasnt meant to be a point of discussion. But it did turn into one.

The OP killed the thread with her last post. She got the answer she was looking for, and didnt need the thread anymore. That is why I did not mind that the point of discussion changed afterward.

If you go back up and look, you will see. The thread did not change direction by my hand until afterwards, and the OP has not been on since.