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Organic Fertilizers....

19 years ago

Not certain I'm in the correct forum... Please advise.

I'm overwhelmed.

A lot of questions here, so any help appreciated.

Forgive me, I'm thinking aloud also.

Have been trying to go organic for a few years now with mixed results. Have raised beds composed of primarily Canadian Sphagum Peat moss and Vermiculite. The more I research the more confused I get.

Attempting to come up with a "system" of sorts that will allow me to blend my own organic fertilizers, creating mixes that allow for a seedling starter mix for inside propogation, a mix that will allow for outside propogation at seeding, and a mix that would be applied before/at planting that will provide for most of the fertilizer requirements throughout the remainder of the growing season. This also allows me to use individual components (vs blends) as soil tests &/or experience warrants.

Will be intensively growing both vegetables and cut flowers.

My list of preferred items to keep bulk ingredients down to as few as possible.

STARTER FERTILIZER

(P-11)Water Soluble? Bone Meal (also N-4 some brands? Water soluble?)

*What else would I need to add to this to give seedlings readily available NPK. What's a good water soluble K? Ingredient?

*Recommended ratios? Would like to create a grow mix that would feed seedlings for 8 weeks or so without leaching out. In the absence of that possibility, would like to have something liquid that could be applied on a regular (weekly?) basis. Could the bone meal be disolved in water? Other recommendations? I've tried fish emulsion but it smells too bad for the house. Ok with it for the garden. Kelp Emulsion? What would I be losing by using the Kelp emulsion (let's say soaking it into the soiless mix from the bottom vs using the fish/emulsion or a kelp fish emulsion blend? Recommendations as to brand? Must be good for both flowers and vegetables.

BASIC FERTILIZER

(N-14)Water insoluble Blood Meal

(P-16)Water insoluble Rock Phosphate (also Calcium-19%)

(K-7)Water Insoluble Greensand (also trace minerals)

*Add additional pre-packaged Humus, Sugars, beneficial bacteria and organisms etc.... Do I even want to bother with this stuff? are the organic fertilzers and peat that I'm using going to handle all this anyway? Any probs with using it? Aren't some of these items incorporated into some of the fish/kelp emulsions that I'm planning on using anyway? Recommendations?

*What ratios would you use for general purpose considering the program I'm outlining?

*Note: Might consider a Blood and Bone meal substitute in light of Mad Cow etc so long as incorporating those items doesn't have detrimental effects elsewhere. Right now I'm shying away from manures because of hormones, pesticides, vaccinations etc that make the water way to murky for me. Ultimately, hopefully, I'll be raising my own chickens etc and will know what's creating the manure and will incorporate it later. Also, considering green manures in the winter, but not certain if I like the way it potentially ties up my area of crops.

LIQUID FERTILZER (Foliar & Drip Irrigation)

(NPK)Fish emulsion or Kelp emulsion or Blend

*Recommendations Please. See "add additional" note under basic fertilizer above.

OTHER

Dolomitic Limestone (to adjust PH, add Calcium and Magnesium)

*Hydrated Lime recommended as Jump start for peat beds put into production this year? Calcium supplements? Calcium in bone meal enough?

*Calcitic Limestone, Calcium Nitrite, Calcium Chloride needed?

Problems for me come into play when trying to deal with water soluble vs water insoluble ingredients and how to incorporate. Also, my incomprehension of how organic ingredients are made available and IF I can overdo it for various varieties if I incorporate too much. Would like to be able to basically "broadcast" the same ingredients for all flower and vegetable varieties. Hoping that with the organic nature of the products, the plants will be able to determine in a healthful manner what they need.

So, I want to make sure my plants get off to a good start when planted into the bed so my understanding is that I want water soluble fertilzers at that time particularly for good root development etc.

Trying to work towards this (or something similar).

1. Apply new peat/vermiculite blend (as required)to bring beds up to correct level and mix with existing soiless mix.

2. Have soil tested professionally.

3. Lime with Dolomitic Limestone per the test. Question is if PH is an issue with soiless mixes at all? I'm getting mixed input about this in that some say it's like chasing and you'll never get there anyway, so just provide everything you need and don't worry about it. Also say to still apply lime (Dolomitic, & or Calcitic or others) primarily for the the Calcium and Magnesium.

Also, on my new beds (to be built and planted this spring) I'm concerned about PH and Calcium levels and started looking into Liquid Limestone. Apparently, it becomes much more readily available than the other limestone powders. Then I found some info on Hydrated Lime and thought that may be the way to go. Anyway, I'm confused about the whole lime thing and have big concerns since I'm using primarily peat. I also note that apparently vermiculite is more neutral than the peat and might factor into the peats acidity? Help!

4. Start seedling production with a starter fertilizer that will be OK to use in the house. Have been trying to make myself use fish emulstion, but for obvious reasons I'm looking elsewhere. Thinking that maybe I should just mix in some ingredients into my soiless mix. Would Bone meal by itself be sufficient?

5. Wait until spring to Broadcast a blend of water insoluble fertilzers that also provide micronutrients and other items that stimulate soil activity, sugars etc. The idea is that this blend provides the majority of the fertilzer source for the growing season. Simultaneously building soil. Work into top 4" of soil & water in. What fertilzers from my list & Rates would you recommend for this? Right now I'm using (N) Blood Meal, (P) Rock Phosphate, (K) Greensand (glauconite).

6. At Planting, Broadcast a blend of water soluble ingredients (primarily bone meal?) to help jumpstart things. I've seen some bone meal that is primarily Phosphorous, and some that has a relatively high percentage of Nitrogen. Wondering which I want to use. I'm thinking if the Nitrogen in the blood meal is water soluble, then I'd want that. If not, I'd need to find a quick release nitrogen source to add as a mix. Or, perhaps a liquid fertilzer (fish emulsion/kelp) could solve the whole problem and then I don't need to broadcast the water soluble ingredients. Then, Barely work into top surface of soil & water in.

7. Use a liquid fertilzer (Fish & Or Kelp emulsion etc) every couple weeks or so as additional backup for plants. I think I would prefer to NOT foliar feed because of potential problems with flowers etc. Still up in the air on this one. Regardless, the liquid fertilzer allows for incorporation without disturbing the soil around the plants and the potential for incorporating into a drip irrigation system later.

I'll start with these questions and see how it goes.

ANY input would be appreciated.

Eddie

Comments (4)

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Hi Eddie,
    Just reading this overwhelmed me so I can imagine after doing much research the way that you feel. This is just a suggestion so please don't be offended. I do not believe organic gardening should be this difficult, that is the beauty of organic gardening. First thing I would do is to have the soil tested before trying to figure out what needs to be added to what. Then you could go from there taking it one step at a time in the learning curve. It could be you are stressing yourself over something that you don't need to at this time.

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Cindra,

    "Just reading this overwhelmed me so..."

    Yeah, I'm a "little" verbose at times (he, he). Trust me, this is the edited down version.

    Recommendations are well taken, and that will be the approach. Regardless, there is a STEEP learning curve and I keep thinking I'm getting over the hump.

    I'm not really in as much pain as I seem to be, just looking for some insight from others (like yourself). Already since posting have made some changes to the "formula" in an effort to simplify things. I REALLY don't want to make this complicated. Might sound complicated but it's in an effort to simplify things eventually if you can relate.

    Sooner or later I've got to pull the plug on the research and just do it. Make some decisions and learn from the mistakes.

    Anyway, again, thanks for your insight.

    Eddie

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Eddie, it read a little complicated to me too if the goal was to grow thing naturally, without chemicals. My approach to organic is to intervene only when it can't be avoided. And that makes me curious, my clay based soil is heavily amended with compost (over many years) and I don't find the need to fertilize. Is there some reason you are gardening in primarily peat and vermiculite - both of which might be thought of as nutritionally inert?

  • 19 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Eddie, You're right to be concerned that the peat moss will exacerbate any pre-existing acidic soil if that's what you have or - at best - inordinately shift the balance and necessitate increased amendments of lime. A soil test, as you said, is a must-do, first step. I understand that you have to start somewhere in building up beds (been there/done that), and I empathize w/the need for mere "bulk" of fill ingredients like readily-available peat & vermiculite. They are, however, of no nutritive value to your soil or the microorganisms therein, which ultimately are the major supporters of your plant's health...not additional fertilizers.

    It's just too sterile an environment and is contrary to the primary paradigm of Organic Gardening: Feeding the soil and not the plants. . By far the most beneficial soil amendment is compost and the most available to the microherd. Initiating a compost pile would be a logical first step (even pre soil testing) toward an organic goal. But, here again...what if you don't have an existing pile? Organic bags of composted chicken manure, bat guano, worm castings or mushroom compost can be obtained and added in lieu. Kelp meal (probably my personal most oft used ingredient even in addition to my well-aged compost piles) is an excellent soil conditioner and creates a hospitable atmosphere for all other amendments and is especially kindly to transplants. :) Alfalfa meal is natural all around fert and soil amendment of roughly 3-2-2.

    Fish emulsion can be found completely deodorized. Alaska® brand, for instance, is OMRI approved and odorless. Liquid kelp is also readily available online (and lucked into at some local retailers) and simply smells of fresh seaweed. Liquid bonemeal is manufactured under the brand name of Aggrand® by Aggrene Products. Remember that newly planted seeds need no fert. All necessary food for their germination and initial growth is stored in the germplasm of that seed. I don't usually begin a diluted fish/kelp emulsion program till they've developed at least one full set of true leaves.

    Because I rarely measure (you should see me in the kitchen) I mix a part of peat, a part of perlite, a part of kelp meal and a big part of compost as my basic potting mix. Sometimes, when my compost availability is scarce, I'll "water down" my mix w/some purchased soiless mix. I like Pro-Mix in that pinch circumstance. For containers which notoriously leach more nutrients because of water demands, I'll add a spoonful of a granular organic fert.

    I've been organic gardening for nearly 25 years, and I'm still careening around that "learning curve" of which you spoke . :) Bottom line is (1)Don't sweat the details and
    (2) A good compost pile can accommodate a myriad of gardening problems: soil-wise, disease-wise, insect-wise, weather-wise and environmental-wise. Compost is your friend. Embrace the compost! And brew a tea of it to spray on your plants when they need a boost several times throughout the season. But not when they're under stress. Compost teas (as other brews) are most advantageous when used as preventatives as opposed to fixatives.

    Sorry if some of this came off as Preaching According to the Gospel of Organics. It's just that I've been in your bierkenstocks and wanted so desperately to do the right OG thing, leaving the lightest imprint on the earth and enabling the health of my own micro-environmental community. It's not really as complicated as you may think. Basically it's just following your gut. That...and recognizing that next to compost's rank in organic hierarchy...duct tape comes in a close second. :) Best of luck, Eddie. It's great to know that another gardener has found their way over to the bright, non-chemically-polluted side of the road.

    Linda
    (And you thought you were verbose! Hah!)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Aggrene - Liquid Products

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