I would just direct sow the tithonia and the regular sunflowers. If you start them inside, I wouldn't do it more than 2 weeks or so before last frost date; they grow very quickly. As long as you plant them in full sun, you'll get plenty of blooms, no worries there :) I don't know much about the cup and saucer vine, but I guess they mean to stick the seed down in the seed starting mix on it's side, so that one side is down and one side pointing towards the ceiling, as opposed to placing it with the pointy side down into the dirt or facing the ceiling. Here's a link I found to a site where someone describes germinating moonflower seeds on a paper towel.

Here is a link that might be useful: moonflower seeds

Thank you, sleepy! I'm going to try that method on my moonflower seeds. Thanks for the tips!

Brad AKA Moonwolf

I agree with sleepy.

I think you should diect sow all of your seeds.

I live in zone 5 and direct sow (may 10th ish) cup and saucer vine, moonflowers, sunflowers, and moring glories and they all do quite well and are over 5 feet tall in 30 days. All three like to be left alone. And by that I mean, once they have germinated and grow 3-4 true leaves, dont water them and dont fertilize them. If you do, you will get big bushy beautiful vines with no flowers.

Just make sure you wait until your last forst date and if you get a chilly night, just put a sheet over them.

I hope that helps.

Happy Gardening.

Keriann~

Keriann, do your cup and saucer and moonflower vines produce an abundance of flowers? I've never planted seeds until mid-May or so. Morning glories and sunflowers are some of the easiest plants I'v ever grown (I'm sure other people can agree) but I've never grown cup and saucer vines. Moonflowers have done well for me too. It's just that the flowers don't last long enough for me.

Thanks, Keriann!

Brad AKA Moonwolf

I forgot to ask a question. I bought the cup and saucer vine seeds back in Nov. from Summer Hill Seeds. Will they still be good to sow in the spring? I keep them in a dark, dry area, plus they are in packets inside of an envelope they came in.

Brad AKA Moonwolf

Yes, they will still be good seeds if they are still dry.

and I stated Mid-May because that is my last frost date, your date should be earlier than mine.

Yes, both of my cup and saucer vines and moonflowers bloom like crazy!

Stay away from peat pots. If you start seeds in them it will be very hard to keep the watered correctly and they do not decompose in the ground so you have to rip them off, this ripping off sensative roots in the process.

Just direct sow all of them in the ground in the Spring.

All like full sun.

Does that help?

Keriann~

Keriann,

Thank you for your help! How do you plant your cup and saucer vine seeds? All the books I read say to plant them on their edge. I still don't know how to do that.

Brad AKA Moonwolf

As sleepy said about the 'edge'...

This means to plant the seed on itÂs side in the soil (so it wonÂt rot).. but I have always just tossed them in the ground, so donÂt worry if you sdont get it right. Try a few different ways.

I donÂt recall what the seed looks like off the top of my head, but for a sun flower seed (just for example) you would plant it the long way on the thin side of the seed, not the flat part. So west pointing would be the point, east facing would be the rounded end and Âup facing would be one thin edge of the seed.

If you are antsy to start something inside from seed, you could start these vines no more that 3 weeks before your last frost dateÂ. They might bloom earlier for you then.

Keriann~

Agree with everything Keriann said, and I'd think in zone 6 you could plant these out at least first of May, if not sooner; my last frost date is April 30 in zone 5b. Just check when your last frost date is and you can plant as close to that as possible, since they won't germinate & sprout instantly anyway. I would wager a guess that there's something else going on that's caused the lack of blooms on your moonflower in the past, whether it's not enough sunshine or too much fertilizer, like she said. Did the vine grow big and full and have a lot of leaves but just no flowers, or did the vine not grow much at all period? If you do decide to start any/all of these indoors, I would save half to try direct sowing outside. That way, you can not only ensure a backup if your indoor started seedlings have any problems, but you can also compare and see which plants are more successful in the long term.

Thanks sleepy and Keriann!

It looks like the last frost date for my zone looks like sometime in May. I think I'll start some of my seeds early as backups for the direct sown seeds. It would be a neat experiment.

As for the moonflowers, they always grew a lot for me even if I didn't fertilize, which I didn't do last year.
They always grow with the morning glories and cover the back steps, growing up latticework onto the woodwork of the back steps. Now this year, they'll be growing with cup and saucer vine added to the mix.

Last year, when I planted the seeds, only two sprouted in the entire pack, and I even soaked the seeds overnight before I planted them. I always use the Burpee kind of moonflower seeds.

Brad AKA Moonwolf

Oh man. I had finally decided not to grow morning glories, but now I'm rethinking it! :) I didn't know they were so easy to grow...

My only concern is that I've heard that they are poisonous, and I have a dog who eats random things all the time. Is it just the seeds that are harmful?

Kim

Kim-I have two dogs that are like 2-year olds 'everything in the mouth stage'. They are fine, and I am not worried about it.

Morning glories are so easy to grow they are like weeds now. I plant them along the fence line just to add some color and they cover it...totally cover it. I do wind some in and out so they do not just grow 'up' but they are beautiful. You will get HUNDREDS of seedlings next year so plant it some where you can just mow over if you don't want them anymore or want to keep them contained.

Japanese Beetles love them and will eat them like crazy. So be prepared. I walk around the gardens twice a day with a cup of soapy water and just knocked them off into it. But every day, twice a day I would get 40-80 of them. I am not a big fan of spraying anything and I like to walk through all the gardens so I don't mind it too much.

Brad- I would make sure they are in full sun if you want really good blooms all season. Around a staircase next to a building might be shading it just enough to inhibit flowering.
And if you had 'bad' germination I would try a few methods before soaking all of them.. maybe on a wet papertowel, direct sow, soak and sow ect.

your Moonflowers.. are you talking about Datura or the vine that the flowers look like morning glories and open at night?
Keriann

Keriann, I'm talking about the ones that look like morning glories and open at night. They are related to the morning glory and they smell wonderful. I have never grown daturas although I got the seeds in a trade and will be giving them away as I don't have the room for them.

The vines always get east facing sun from dawn until early-mid afternoon. The dryer exhaust vent is under the back steps too, but the air doesn't go directly on the ground. Mom wondered if that would help keep them warm.

As for the germination, I'm going to try the method sleepy mentioned above. In a gardening book, it says moonflowers can be grown in a hanging basket and let indoors as a houseplant! I would try it but I don't have the room to put another hanging basket.

So far, it's cup and saucer, moonflower and maybe morning glories growing on the back porch, with another vine (not sure yet what to put in the 15"-pot) that's in a pot setting on the steps or landing.

Brad AKA Moonwolf

Okay good that was the moonflower I was referring to, not Datura though I do both.

IMO they are not getting enough sun to bloom, 14+ hours I consider full sun. Also, if they are in pots their roots may be to warm and that may also be hindering their flowering.

The morning glories will choke out everything else so that may be another reason they are not blooming. The morning glories may be stealing all the sun.

Just my opinion though

Keriann~

Keriann, the morning glories and moonflowers I always put in the ground. The cup and saucer will be planted in the ground also. There's a clematis by the shed that I'm thinking of taking out (Nelly Moser) and putting a different vine there. It's gets sun all day from dawn to dusk. Does that sound like a good place for the moonflowers?

Brad AKA Moonwolf

Yes, I think it would do better over by your shed.

I am all about experiments so maybe you could try both spots and see which one does better.

Keriann~

I will see if I can put them by the shed. If I don't put the moonflowers there, will the cup and saucer vines do good there? In a book I got at the library, it says that cup and saucer can climb rough surfaces (in my case the shed roof).

Brad AKA Moonwolf

Yes, either would do well there by your shed in full sun.

Keriann~

I used to grow Cobaea from seed and they would germinate. Now I haven't been able to get them to germinate for the last 10 years. I've had that problem with other seeds also which I used to get them to germinate. Are they selling us bad quality seeds?