Hydrangeas - any - do not fit any of the recognized definitions of 'invasiveness'. Hydrangeas are considered caning shrubs or those that develop new growth/stems - the canes - directly from the root crown and that can over time significantly increase the size of the shrub. So while they can sometimes spread, they are not invasive.

Folks tend to use this term a little too frequently and without a good understanding of just what 'invasive' means. Many different plants will have a habit of growth that results in the expansion of the plant beyond its original planting site.......it does not directly follow that all these plants are therefore invasive. In fact, sometimes this is a very desirable trait.

The term 'invasive' is most properly used to refer to non-native plants that demonstrate an ability to outcompete native plants in natural environments and therefore pose an ecological or economic threat. Annabelle hydrangeas do not meet any of these criteria.

Thanks Gardengal48!!! This is a response that actually makes since. My Annabelles have never been a problem and probably only acted as you said which is adding new canes from the root crown, thus increasing size--and at that very slowly. I feel much better about selecting/using either Annabelle or the improved variety of Incrediball.

I just removed today 3 Hydrangea Annabelle that had been planted for probably many years (not sure, new house for us). You don't think they are invasive…..well think again. We spend 4 hours digging, struggling to remove roots of those hydrangea. They were all over following roots of larger trees. The root balls were the size of my arms…they were sending shoots in the grass everywhere. I hope I was able to remove all the white roots because if any of them are left behind they will regrow again. I love Annabelle but I am not sure I will move them to another location. It's 4:00 am and have not decided……..

Liane - gardengal48 explained above clearly that the word 'invasive' does not simply mean that a plant expands over time. A plant that has been in position for many years and has got to a good size and has a good foothold is not invasive. Your Anabelles are not invasive. You could call them vigorous, robust, very healthy or too big (by your definition) for their position but they cannot be invasive. 'Invasive ' is a scary word which is constantly being over/misused. "An invasive species is defined legally in the USA as “An alien species whose introduction does or is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to human health…‘Alien species’ means, with respect to a particular ecosystem, any species…that is not native to that ecosystem.”" Source: What 'invasive ' really means

Annabelles are vigorous spreaders in my garden, but as they don't escape into the wild, aren't invasive. I also find that though they spread, they aren't overly thuggish and seem to mostly do well with the surrounding plants. In different growing conditions, I can see that they might become thugs, but I haven't seen it.

Very good discussion! Brings to my mind that the word garden is a verb as well as a noun.

I know without a doubt that most people have never learned that distinction. And I don't mean that as a criticism at all.

Some hydrangea species are native to the US, others originated in Asia. There have been some reports of hybrid hydrangeas being nominated as invasive in the Midwest out towards the Northeast US. Regardless of that aspect, some hydrangeas are very aggressive and the Annabelle hydrangea in particular has been noted as damaging walkways and producing root runners that add new plants far, far from the original. They don't typically do this until they are well established, so you won't see evidence of it at first. But if you want to grow the Annabelles for their size/shape you would be money ahead to grow them in containers with filter cloth in the bottom to reduce escapes into other areas of your garden. Removing an established Annabelle will take several seasons of sprout removal if you've placed it directly in the garden and if you've placed them in a raised bed area, they will eventually destroy the edge of it in their vigor. So invasive only applies to certain kinds and is still being studied, but an aggressive plant that can become a pest? - yes

"There have been some reports of hybrid hydrangeas being nominated as invasive in the Midwest out towards the Northeast US. "

Would like to see any documentation of this. AFAIK, there are NO hybrid hydrangeas and i have never heard of ANY hydrangea being considered invasive under the accepted definition of that term.

I have replanted my hydrangea on another wall of our house, will keep them in check by cutting a trench in the front so they don't spread too wide. I still dig out some shoots from the old location.....

Love those flowers, they put out such a show!

Here ya go, gardengal48 - like I said, it's in the nomination stage and not all hydrageas are native. https://www.invasiveplantatlas.org/subject.html?sub=14077

As for the hybrid varieties - google yields a lot of new varieties, some of which claim to be new and others mention being hybrids. Here is North Carolina Extension mentioning both cultivars and hybrids: https://plants.ces.ncsu.edu/plants/all/hydrangea-arborescens/

They may be using the term 'hybrid' rather generously. :-) While the pink forms of H. arborescens have been bred intentionally, the breeding is only between two cultivars of H. arborescens, so an intraspecies hybrid. Which is not really a hybrid at all, as they are typically considered to be a crossing of two distinct species, if not genera.

As to the so-called invasiveness, that is only a report of where these plants may have seeded naturally........that's a long haul from being invasive!! Hydrangea paniculata is NOT listed on ANY state's invasive species listing.

I have a species arborscens that does sucker, but so do many other native shrubs, and I pull up the suckers that are heading out of the garden. I also have an arborscens cultivar of which I cannot remember the name and it hasn't suckered at all in 6 years.

'Annabelle' is sterile right? How can it be invasive? Most of the truly invasive plants around here are Asian natives. Check out my thread on the trees forum - funny-

Some hydrangeas are Asian. Sterile means it can't generate seeds, not that it can't be invasive. The roots on Annabelles run and can be up to nearly 2" in diameter, destroying walkways and spreading the plants dozens of feet away from there the original was planted. Gardeners report having a devil of a time digging them out and finding all the runners. I can tell you here I've just started to notice that this is a serious issue in my own yard - I had one Annabelle, now there are 9 and I've been digging them out almost yearly. There are new Annabelles to be removed every year. Clearly we have some hard-core hydrangea fans here and I'm never going to persuade them, but I've told you what I've found - some of you've just already made up your minds about it. It isn't illegal to buy them - go ahead and fill your yards.

Spreading or suckering is not the same as being invasive - many plants have that growth habit and depending on the plant and its location, it can be problematic. But "Invasive" has a very specific definition: "invasive species" is defined as a species that is: 1) non-native (or alien) to the ecosystem under consideration and. 2) whose introduction causes or is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to human health". Despite your concerns about the behavior of Hydrangea arborescens, it does not fit either part of that definition. It is native to the US (a non-alien species) and it doesn't cause environmental or economic harm.

Semantic
war - look beyond the adjectives - there is nothing wrong with someone posting
that the plant was problematic for her.

Uh oh. Watch out for alternate facts!

I'm sorry, but I think words should have meaning. Otherwise, well they're just meaningless. I agree it's ok to say you had a problem, or even that you detested the plant for the way it rampaged across your space. But a native plant, in it's native range, cannot be invasive.

Surface roots of my
neighbor's tree is invasive to my lawn.

Words have multiple levels of meaning.

I've had 'Annabelle' for years. Yeah, she's vigorous, but I've had way bigger problems with other shrubs being overly aggressive. De gustibus...

In case anyone here is struggling with the word invasive, check out this great post on the Name That Plant forum. The subject of that thread is the epitome of an invasive plant.

Now we're talking. This is Oakleaf Hydrangea H. quercifolia location is by a Maryland church. It should be noted, those large leaves do quite well in shade also. This is a great plant for massing or as a specimen. If the OP is unhappy with 'Annabelle' consider an oakleaf.

This is quite an interesting question. Let's forgive the person for that exact term "invasive", and concentrate on the general idea. If you've ever grown one in a relatively cool climate, for perhaps 5 years, you may get the general gist of what she's asking. I think we should accept the fact that a plant that grows vigorously in one climate or zone, does not grow as vigorously in another. Also your neighbour can have great luck with a plant that doesn't do well for you due to soil type or sun conditions.

Personally I grow Annabelle and though I adore her, she would like to take over all my real estate and gives it her darndest. It needs upkeep and I've tried to get rid of her. I once gave my hubby "what for" for removing the whole thing (several bushel baskets full of roots) only to find that it was just as big 2 or 3 years later. Can I rephrase this question? I, too would like to know if Incrediball will behave in the same fashion as Annabelle? Is it worth buying, or will it just try to take over? So - to anyone interesting in answering the question -- If you have trouble with Annabelle, are there any other hydrangeas that act "in the same aggressive manner" as Annnabelle and need "a lot of upkeep" to keep them from taking over your property?

I honestly am not sure if you can determine if Incrediball has more or less suckering than a Hydrangea arborescens like Annabelle since it has been on the market less than 10 years, with the patent being from 2009. My Annabelle took a while before the suckering became really vigorous, and she now needs sucker removal annually, though some years such as this one, I don’t get to it. Mine is 15+ years old and has never lifted my sidewalk despite being about 4’ away, close enough that flowers impinge in the walkway.

https://patents.google.com/patent/USPP20571P2/en

However, the Incrediball plant patent says the plant should reach 2 meters (about 7’) in width, so that would imply to me that it has a similar suckering habit to Annabelle. You could try one of the overall smaller types such as Minimauvette which might be a bit easier to control due to its overall smaller size, though it is new enough that it can’t be determined whether it is more or less vigorous either.

You could also try a small panicled hydrangea in the spot such as H. paniculata Bobo which doesn’t sucker at all.

Yes I have several Bobo and they seem to be at the opposite end of the spectrum, rather shy to grow at all. I'm trying Little Lime too, but have always been curious about Incrediball since it has those large solid blooms that are so admirable in Annabelle. When I asked a few years ago in my favourite garden centre I got the same answer as you - that it really hasn't been on the market long enough. But...I was not aware that the patent says 2 metres wide. I guess that's telling. Thanks.

What about having one planted next to our house as in 3 to 4 feet. Is that a concern for drain tile as do the root systems go down past 5 feet. If they are searching for moisture I would have to say yes but I’m not sure, please let me know

Other than the top growth might grow large enough to rub against the house, there is no concern. The roots are not invasive in that they would interfere with foundations or concrete slabs or walkways. Or drain tiles. And roots tend to spread almost exclusively horizontally, not downward. Even with very large trees, 85% of the root system is contained within the top 16" of the soil profile.

Thank you

My Annabelle grows above our foundation drains, and as GG48 said, the roots don’t reach that far down and have caused no issues with drainage or any damage in 15+ years. That said, I would consider 4’ to be a minimum distance from a building for Annabelle so the moisture isn’t constantly against the wall.

Invasive plants are still for sale as garden ornamentals, research shows https://phys.org/news/2021-08-invasive-sale-garden-ornamentals.html

^^ That is a very misleading article. It is addressing on a national basis a subject which is governed almost exclusively by location. What is identified as an invasive species or noxious weed in one area of the country is not very likely to be considered an invasive species/noxious weed everywhere else. Climate and geography will be the deciding factor. And very few states have banned the sale of any invasive ornamentals....for precisely this reason. What may be invasive in Massachusetts is unlikely to be equally invasive in WA state.

This is a topic I am very aware of and continue to research as it affects my business. The only plants I am aware of that have a very national distribution (or close to it) as well as a perceived invasive status are purple loosestrife and kudzu, neither of which are marketed as ornamentals as far as I am aware of.

"neither of which are marketed as ornamentals as far as I am aware of."

https://www.outsidepride.com/seed/flower-seed/purple-loosestrife.html

They have some states listed that they won't sell to, but it's not a big list. And this is a company listed on Garden Watchdog as well!

And that website offers very clear wording about a) its invasiveness; b) to check with local authorities before purchasing and planting; and c) states that it will NOT ship to.

Hard to ask for more than that!

"Hard to ask for more than that!"

Not selling it would be good with me ;)

But back to the intent of Brenda's original question - Incrediball hydrangea. Does anyone grow it? Is it a well behaved plant or does it spread like most Annabelle?

Like any cultivar of Hydrangea arborescens, it expands by suckers. So yes, it spreads :-)

Interesting point that is is an arborescens and not a paniculata.

It spreads like Annabelle and it flops in the rain like Annabelle. I have multiples of both shrubs, and I see no difference between the two. I mostly let them sucker.