Wow, I can't help but think this person has an axe to grind. There are going to be a lot of people deeply offended by these broad accusations.

I don't think its a coincidence that "gpburdell" just signed up for a GardenWeb account today. This sounds like a web designer phishing for work.

Check out this guy's My Page before bothering to respond. His birthday's Ap 1, he just registered today and gives no info. Just let him crawl back into his corporate car.

THat is the first thing I checked when I saw his anger.
He just joined for one vent, no doubt.
Sammy

Well, thank you for the advice to the nurseries. I'm sure they'll adapt their business to fit your plans.

Carla

Good grief . . . this person must be wired-in to the (former) planet Pluto -- or someplace equally as remote.

Frankly, I've always been quite impressed with all aspects of the 6 or 7 OGR suppliers that I routinely deal with.

Must be related to JDH101. Just go crawl back under your rock, gpburdell. Perhaps you should resist posting unless you have something of value to say. Or better still, go find a forum that shares your limited world view and vent there.

Joanne

Without exception, I find that every rose website I go to has something of interest, and I have never found any of them anything but easy to navigate and interesting. I might add that I spend quite a bit of money on ordering roses and am sure others do too so these nurseries must be doing something right! Since seeing so many nurseries close their doors, for whatever reason, I have become very protective of the ones who offer these beautiful roses that we all cherish and I will join in the rest of you telling "gpburdell" who was born on April Fool's Day - how appropo - to spare the rose forums his petty unnecessary rants. Wonder if he and JDH101 are one and the same??
Judith

Hi, jdh101. Feel better now?

Randy

I believe there are a couple of valid points here about website quality, photos, etc.

But the bottom line is the original poster admitted taking a gamble by planting roses into the ground which in his/her own opinion "did not have adequate roots to last them through the heat of summer nor the cold of winter." The gamble was a losing one and the grower wants someone to blame.

I would chalk it up to experience: next time I would either grow the plant on in the container until the root system was big/strong enough to handle being planted into the ground or immediately send the plants back for a refund.

I also think the poster has some valid points but here are some things he/she didn't consider:

--most of these are very SMALL businesses and cannot be expected to have websites equal to multi-million dollar businesses. Yes there are quirks. I am a Mac user (and lover) and haven't found it impossible. But then I will jump most hurdles to get the roses I cannot find anywhere else.

--Poor communication happens lots of places but especially with owner-run businesses. They are usually having 80 hour weeks and the highest priority is getting product out to paying customers. Most can't afford a secretary to anwer email but I have always gotten an answer.
800 #'s cost a lot of money monthly, I had one. They generate a lot of junk calls. When we dropped ours only committed buyers called, not lookey loos and time wasters.

Your last point I will concede: many posters here are kind and forgiving people and do not want OGR sellers vilified.
I think if there is a pattern of poor performance it should be noted. Daves Garden has a place to do that and I look there before ordering. When I had 2 roses arrive in poor condition last year I emailed the company and replacements arrived toot sweet. That was Vintage.

The world is not perfect. Plants die. But really what level of perfection are you expecting for your $9 to $12 roses? I've had worse results when paying bigger bucks to a dentist or doctor.

There is room for us to disagree here. All is not moonlight and roses. But don't hold these small businesspeople up to a standard that most people do not achieve for greater needs.

Take a deep breath, find some roses and smell them. Works for me when I have a bad day. I know my bad day is nothing like other people who have lost jobs, homes, family members, retirement funds.

Denise

Yes, I too think we are seeing a second installment of JDH101's earlier gripe post. Some people simply don't want to believe that the first place to seek customer satisfaction is with the merchant who sold you the items. But then that presumes that the buyer is looking for customer satisfaction. Some people would rather just gripe.

I think these small Mom-and-Pop businesses offer a good product. However, some of them have not diversified enough to keep up with the changes in gardening. Roses are very beautiful but we were saturated with rose nurseries. Not everybody loves roses enough to care how to take care of them. The buy them, stick them in a hole (one lady who was a life-long gardener, master gardener and garden club member asked me how much sugar I put in the hole before planting? Slapping my forehead, see what I mean!) and if by digging a 12-inch x 12-inch hole, they don't live with sugar and whatever they put in the hole minus the water or too much water, then it's the nursery's fault. However, in order to stay afloat, nurseries must diversify. Roses need companion plants, they need companion garden items, and they need nurseries who are run by people willing to educate the public on those needs and provide some of those wants.

Nurseries are like the family doctors' offices. The margin of profit is so small that each customer cannot be educated one-on-one for hours on end. The owner and customer need to partner in this by the shopper educating himself with the assistance of the nurserymen/women. It is made much easier if the shopkeeper doles out brochures and says the guarantee for the roses is dependent on your adherence to the information contained within. Of course, there is no guarantee they will read or adhere to, but just making sure the information is at hand and in hand, makes it easier for the gardener to have healthy roses. Chances are most of them will read it.

Provide picture brochures with plantings of roses, not just a bloom. Show the shopper how their garden can look and offer items to make it possible. You don't have to sell everything but don't sell only items that are so exorbitantly priced that the average low-brow gardener cannot afford it (That's me, low-brow gardener).

Here's my soapbox for what it's worth --- back at you now, Disgruntled Gardener, who changes names with each complaint.

I can truly say I've never had a bad experience with the rose nurseries I've used. Any errors made were immediately rectified. For instance, I contacted Vintage when I truly believed I had been sent an incorrect rose based on the leaves and the bloom, but said I did not want to be credited because it was such a pretty rose. They credited me anyway when they sent me the correct rose. It turned out I was wrong in thinking the rose was the wrong one; the first bloom was just very atypical (lesson learned on my part). I e-mailed them to say I had been mistaken and asked they charge me for the rose they had credited. They thanked me for my honesty but did not charge me. As long as a site has the rose I want I'm not terribly concerned with the layout or pictures (which I can find on HMFR) so I think the poster is expecting just a bit more than some of these smaller businesses can provide. It seems that most of us can live with that. There does seem to be a company in Canada with serious issues and, based on what's been said about them on this forum, I wouldn't think of ordering from them. Since I live in California that's not much of a sacrifice. I can only say to the poster "get over it or go away".

Ingrid

With the cheap plans for long-distance (and most cellphones have no charge for calling long distance), and the incredible charges for 800 calls, I think it's silly to expect low-margin businesses like nurseries to subsidize your phone bill, particularly since the vast majority of calls are NOT for ordering, but for information. You shouldn't expect someone in any small business to not only provide endless information via phone calls, but to also PAY you to give out information.

It's wonderful to have photos for all the products, true, but it's one thing to have the photos, it's another to make them the right size for web pages, and match them to thousands of items.

I don't think it takes much sense to figure out when to call a place. You shouldn't expect to get an answer at 8:00 eastern time when you're calling a place on the west coast, or expect an answer at 5:00 p.m. Pacific time from a place on the east coast. I don't understand the aversion to leaving messages in voice mail if you're calling a place. Even places that have secretaries and receptionists still end up having you leave a "voice message" when the person you want to speak to is unavailable.

I doubt the original poster is a web designer phishing for work, I'd say it's someone disgruntled with a lack of sympathy they thought they were "due" when their unreasonable expectations weren't met. It's amazing how much is expected for something that costs $10-$12 that is not expected for a computer or car or other expensive items.

I don't know which nurseries have non-mac-compatible webstores, all the ones I've dealt with are fine (I'm on a Mac myself, and the place I suspect the poster is talking about is also an all-mac shop). I have seen people trying to use extremely old browsers and not be able to see webstores display properly.

Personal responsibility: Get some.

--Ron

Love this guessing game ... mine is ?? an investment banker recently made redundant offering glossy brochure and super website suggestions, sound business and financial advice to those still in business without government subsidies ?? ...

I love our treasured vendors, OGR nurseries rock!!!!!

:)

Fade In: Basil Fawlty (aka John Cleese) moves across the lobby of "Fawlty Towers" repeatedly smacking himself on the bum.

Basil: "Youre a naught boy, Mr. Fawlty. YouÂre a naught boy, Mr. Fawlty. YouÂre a naught boy, Mr. Fawlty.

This Forum poster comment: "This was a real episode."

Artistic License: A fade and cross dissolve to the "mom and pop" rose nursery owner of your choice.

Animation inset: A "thought bubble" appears above their head with in quotes. "Terrible web page design and function", "Poor communication", "they should spend the $$ required to have a real website rather than having their nephew BillyBob throw together"

Quick cut and fade to: Same nursery owner moving across greenhouse of said nursery repeatedly smacking themselves on the bum.

Nursery Owner. "YouÂre a naughty boy/girl, Mr/Ms Nursery owner, YouÂre a naughty boy/girl, Mr/Ms Nursery owner, YouÂre a naughty boy/girl, Mr/Ms Nursery owner"

Fade out:

Title in: "We now return you to your regularly scheduled reality."

Fade to:

The real world.

Thought bubble: With apologies but it's been a long season and I needed a laugh!

Paul, It's fantastic to know you're still writing comedy! That made me laugh, too!

As for the OP, phooey!

Paul has pointed out something of merit here, I think: both Basil Fawlty and the OP both have a seemingly limitless capacity for yelling and b*tching, with the effect of doing little more than making themselves appear to be unsavory characters which nobody would wish to encounter.

Paul,
Hahahahahaha! Snerk!

Kathy

Since the Rose Vendors will doubtless read all this I want to take a moment to thank them for all the blood sweat and tears that goes into producing a product that only a very few want to buy. I am very aware that there is NO MONEY in growing these lovelies. I also know that fancy websites cost lots of money. I took a payroll accounting class once and the teacher said if you have a small business the only way to stay in business was to not have staff...ergo no one to answer the phone. I know Shippers do not ask the opinions of Vendors when they set shipping rates -thats another thing people crank on about. Roses are living things and weather and disease take their toll. I am always amazed at how well they come through the mail. Keep up the good work.
One teensy thing...if at all possible please post pictures of the found roses, the rest I can look up else where-that being part of the fun of ordering.

patricia

Well, we certainly don't want our customers to get in our way of running a perfect business.

Patricia, we're trying to get more of the Found Roses up on HelpMeFind.

I encourage everyone who is growing Found Roses to upload photos of them to HMF.

Jeri

I absolutely love all of the private rose nurseries. They are all special, and believe me, especially in these times, are struggling to make it. They sure don't get compensated enough financially for all of the work, love, and time involved.

As far as getting a website "professionally" done, all I can say is most of these people will not listen to what the business owner wants put into place, (whose website is this supposed to be anyway.....certainly not theirs!) and many times completely unaffordable for a small business owner. Many of them demand that the control of the site be in their hands and not the owner's. Well, phooey on that. A homemade site is fine with me!

We had an "800" number for our aviation business for awhile. We got rid of it. Not only was it expensive, but it was mostly "tire kickers" that used it. The serious customers didn't mind calling our "regular" business number. Lets face it. It's only the serious customers who purchase anything.

My own personal beef with some businesses is not getting any response at all to phone calls or e-mails. If there are extenuating circumstances, a quick call to say I'll get back to you later, or a posting on their website as to delayed communication is acceptable. Totally ignoring several phone calls or e-mails is not. There is a lovely nursery here in Florida that has lost me as a customer because after 4 phone messages and an e-mail, I never heard a word back.

As far as plants dying after the warranty, well, they are living things. Most likely at that point the plant either just got sick, or isn't suited to the environment it was put in. Sort of like people.

Sandy

The thread has turned out to be fantastic and has given me hope in humanity.
There are many truly considerate, logical, & sound-minded people on this forum.
I'm sure this was not the intention of the originator of this thread, but what started out as a illogical, short-sighted, close-minded, big fat negative, turned out to be a breath of fresh air.

Randy

First Registered March 3 tell me all I need to know?

I think we scared him/her off...

Thank goodness....

Trish

gpburdell,

No doubt you expect the clerk who sells you your roses to be young, slim, trim and have a perky smile?

Oddballs who can't afford expensive state of the art websites have no business being in business?? And, while we are at it, why can't all us little people just buy whatever McFlower the nursery industry is pushiing this year???

Many of us appreciate our small vendors precisely because they are islands of commerical integrity in an ocean of commercial schlock. I don't expect 800 numbers, I take responsibility for doing my own research, and I don't really care about fancy websites. I have learned enough, by myself, about roses to know what I want. I do like vendors who know what they are selling, and take the trouble to share their research and observation. The kind of fancy setup you want usually conceals a shockiing lack of attention to detail which results in mislabed roses, deliberate selling of virused roses without telling the buyer, and misleading zone and culture information. The fancy websites often have, along with the fancy pictures, descriptions which are nothing more than advertising hype, and the selection is usually quite limited. I mean, I ALREADY have MAC, SDLM, La France, Parade, Cl Devoiensis, Gloire de Dijon. Smaller, scruffier nurseries, the kind of places where the owner(s) support their obsessions by propagation and sale of hard to find varieties are my vendors of choice.

I wonder at your motives in "getting into" OGSs. I would suggest that this NOT a field which is "ripe for consolidation" (I believe that is the busniess label for the practice of muscling your way into a business where someone else did the work).