Peat moss is fine up to a point but I would stay away from a mix with much wood chips in it. As the wood chips decay they take nitrogen from the soil. Here in the Northwest our soil has a low pH, around 5 with no amendments so I use hydrated lime. It is a powdered form of lime and quickly works into the soil to correct low pH problems.

You do not need the most expensive stuff on the lot. If you use a mix around the 70/30 you mentioned and add some mushroom compost to the holes things should work out great. Get some good compost for the holes and only add perhaps 20 percent above what was in your new raised bed.

Lance

Larisa, I get quart samples in big ziploc bags and bring them home. I add water to the baggies to see how the soil reacts and what sorts out in water. The local landscaping suppliers have really different (but all really lousy) top soils. Ask if they have a soils analysis on it. I received one load of top soil that sheds water to this day! So be prepared to be really disappointed in the top soil and to have to amend it.

My situation is like Lance's. Because our local soils are quite sandy and very acid, I add lime and a good portion of organic matter in the form of compost to any imported top soil. The composition of compost varies regionally. Here, it's usually composted stable bedding with finely chipped forest products. Like top soils, compost often comes with a soils analysis (if you ask for it). I would never use 50/50 soil:compost because that's too much organic matter.

We try to loosen and rototill the soil underneath raised beds. We dig the imported top soil into the native soil to try to incorporate the native soil into the top soil and vice versa. This works much better than just plopping the top soil on top of the compacted native soil.

So, would a 70/30 soil/compost be sufficent? I have the option of getting a 30/30/30 soil/compost/peatmoss, is that too much peat moss?

I would avoid wood chips and bark. Their volume will radically shrink (90% ?) after they decay in a few years. Also they cause nitrogen to be withdrawn for a couple of years. (Fine to place on top but not to mix with the soil.)

I would prefer the 70% mineral soil. 60% organic matter is too much and, again, it will shrink over time.

But the mineral soil they have may be no better than the soil you are calling "horrible." I would do a jar test to be sure it isn't mostly sand or mostly clay.

After years of life on the internet, I have learned to take the description 'horrible' with an extremely large grain of salt. I've heard some of the best farmland in the US called very insulting names because of an ingrained prejudice against heavy soil.

So just what is so bad about the native soil? I happen to have very compacted clay-loam, that with a bit of digging and a bit more organic matter, turns into very good rose soil. In fact, it turns into such good rose soil that a major local crop for 200 years has been a member of the rose family.

There is a very strong connection between the water holding capabilities of the soil and the amount of irrigation that has to be done. A lot of rosarians like to pour a lot of water on the rose beds, so they require excellent drainage to handle all that water. If you don't want to go that route, then a very different, heavier mix is needed.

Thanks for advice! I will definatly get the soil with less compost now, and just add extra compost to the holes for roses.

My soil is fairly rough. I live in a new house for which the land was "built up" from clay and rock aggregate. Any digging brings up rocks and cinderblock remains. Anywhere I plant in that area, i need to dig out the clay, and replace it with soil. In my back yard, it's great, there are woods there, so it's the best soil.

But thanks again for the advice! It really helps!

Larisa

Real peatmoss is acid, I think about 3.5 If you get bagged peat, that's a different product, but I'm not sure of the ph

Larissa - what is the need for peat moss? I never used any anywhere. It's not actually renewable, at least in our lifetimes either. Compost is perfect. You can grow roses in just compost if you want. Why not just get that and mix it up into your soil? It will help the ph, the drainage, the water retention, etc.

Wood chips are considered "browns" to compost people. They are like leaves. That means that the ratio of carbon to nitrogen is heavily skewed towards carbon. But that's not a bad thing. Don't worry too much about the soil composition. You'll add compost regularly and the worms and bugs will do the rest. I've used wood chips and the roses are just fine.

And as far as the pH is concerned, the pH is determined by the parent rocks from which the soil was formed. Soil from alkaline rocks generally have higher pH values than those from acid rocks. Therefore it is very difficult to permanently change it. You can keep adding stuff, but if you have any kind of drainage, that may drain away. So usually people add lime or something at the beginning of the year.

But unless your soil is entirely unsuitable in every respect, you can do a lot by simply using compost. Mature compost generally has a pH of about 6.5. At that level, most of the major nutrients and trace elements are available to the roses and aluminium is locked out. Mature compost can help to lower pH of alkaline soils, and raise the pH of acid soils and can buffer plant roots from an unsuitable pH in surrounding soil.

I've only used compost for years with no complaints. This after I was told by my neighbors that the soil was too dead to grow anything and by a soil scientist that it was too basic to grow roses.