Kim,

Thank you so much! I was hoping you would be the first to respond. He actually had a favorite! Great to know.

What I'm hoping for in responses is something like "I think his absolute best is _____________ because ____________.

I don't want to qualify anyone's answer or skew it to my particular climate, etc. I just want to know from folks familiar with his plants which one they think is his best and why.

I'd love to know which one Burling would pick too.

I hope you understand,
Chris

Of all of my Moore roses I think I like Softee the best. You CAN NOT STOP it from blooming! Grows like a weed no matter the weather and winters like an eskimo. It's just a really great garden rose.

I agree with Kim... it's too hard to answer this question without more qualifications. I've grown many of Ralph Moore's roses and when they suit the climate, they have been wonderful. But you can say that about almost any breeder's work.

Mr. Moore introduced more roses than any other breeder that I know of during the time he was actively introducing roses. Since he had this insatiable curiosity and was always asking "What if....", his work over the decades shows how he was always experimenting and as he would say "stirring the pot". Some of his crosses gave us some incredibly beautiful plants.

Smiles,
Lyn

I think what sandandsun is asking is: what is your personal favorite Ralph Moore rose, and why?

I don't grow any of his at the moment. Of the ones I've tried in the past, I guess I would say 'Sweet Chariot' because it's form, color, and fragrance remind me of old roses.

I'm sorry Chris, you misunderstand. Ralph didn't have a "favorite" out of all his roses. A parent usually finds it impossible to have a favorite child and that is how he viewed his roses. Technically, he agreed that Linda would probably go down as his masterpiece rose, for all the stated reasons. In fact, he wrote that his "favorite rose will always be the next seedling to bloom, as it will be perfect!" Any rose he kept around, he delighted in studying, observing, "checking up on" regularly. Even when found lacking in some way, he would still stop to point out its good features, what made it worth its table space and would make it worth garden space in your garden. A rose didn't receive a name unless he found it worthy, and each was paid attention to every time it was encountered.

I doubt either he, Burling or Carolyn could truly say this one or that could be their "favorite" because each would be a favorite breeder, or a favorite fragrance, or a favorite propagator, etc. Pink Clouds was created more than half a century ago as a hedge rose, yet it doesn't look like anything special. However, it was in flower all over Burling's nursery when I was there April 7 as she uses it extensively for root stock. She keeps an enormous supply of it "pushing" as well as propagated so she may bud when needed. For that, it must be one of her favorites, but I doubt she would name it as the most beautiful or intriguing.

He definitely had favorite breeders. Ones which were used with every permutation of combinations in breeding. Used consistently enough that you would learn to see their contributions and characteristics in their offspring. And, he'd teach you what they were, why they were selected and what made them special so he could "talk them" with you, train you to see with educated eyes and then view them through YOURS.

I'm sure Irene Lindsey, who provided the marvelous photography used in the Sequoia catalogs for years and who is a cherished friend of all who worked, lived and frequently visited there, would say "Irene Marie" as she took to that rose and let it be known IF a rose were to be named for her, THAT should be it. It was.

I'm also sure many who will respond will be able to select their favorites and tell you why. I've grown many of his roses, both released and many which never were given names, nor ever offered for sale. Many were wonderful and intriguing for one reason, or many. I don't have room for them any longer, but I still have a few of his roses, probably always will. I maintain Cl. Yellow Sweetheart because I helped play a part in 'rediscovering' and identifying it from that lone, remaining plant in Glendale, Ca where it had grown for half a century. I grow Softee because it is also completely thornless, like Cl. Yellow Sweetheart and one I keep breeding with it as they should create a rather nice, thornless rose together. Softee also contains genes from two of his favored breeders, though he never thought to breed with it. Nothing against it, he admitted he'd just never thought of using it.

I grow 1-72-1, the unreleased sister seedling of Rise'n Shine because of its fertility and potential. The same with the unreleased 0-47-19, his R. Wichurana X Floradora cross from 1947. I grow Linda Campbell; an unnamed, unreleased red and white striped climbing seedling; Muriel, because he named it for his mother and it is the genesis of his Bracteata breeding. Out of Yesteryear and Out of the Night are out there as they are, in my opinion, and in my climate, two of his best Bracteatas. Red Fairy is there because he listened about it. He didn't know if anyone would buy it. I assured him they would. They have and he used my name for it. Several of the Persian series Hulthemias are out there for what they represent and because he took my suggestion for creating them as a "Persian" series. Hulthemia is indigenous to that region of the world, "The most noxious weed in Iran".

Morcrest is there because it is the beginning of his "Holy Grail", the crested hybrids. Morsoucrest (Dawn Crest) is there because it IS the best of his crested hybrids, and an EXCELLENT rose here in every way. Morqueencrest is there, even though it is certain to never flower here due to insufficient winter chill because it was bred from Queen Elizabeth and Crested Moss. Surely someone will be able to massage something good from it one day? Playtime is there because it is happy and makes me happy. Magic Wand belongs because it truly IS his "magic wand". It makes very healthy babies, is very fertile and totally clean here. Peach Halo is there because it is the largest flowered of his Halo roses, though definitely not a great plant. Halo Today is a happy mini tree out there because I like it best of the whole series. There is also an un named Halo seedling which resembles a water lily flower. I love how he recreated the look of Hulthemia without using Hulthemia at all. That's creative genius!

Rainforest is out there because it assorts beautifully with Greensleeves and Mint Julep and really IS pretty green. What wizardry does it require to breed orange with mossy deep red and come out with a lightly prickled GREEN!? Morsoul, or String of Pearls is there because it's a repeat flowering mini ground cover bred from Anytime and R. Soulieana! Cal Poly is here because it makes healthy, thornless and yellow babies. Kim Rupert is out there (in fact, two of them!) because it is mossed, healthy, striped and flowers like a weed. It's also quite fertile. It was selected to carry my name because it is mossed and striped, two characteristics which have always intrigued me. He is responsible for enabling everyone else to breed for mossed roses and all modern stripes originated from his striped miniature breeding.

I'm sure there are some I'm missing...they've all earned their places for one reason or another and I love them all. A "favorite"? All of them, all for the reasons stated. Kim

I'm sorry Chris, you misunderstand. Ralph didn't have a "favorite" out of all his roses. A parent usually finds it impossible to have a favorite child and that is how he viewed his roses. Technically, he agreed that Linda would probably go down as his masterpiece rose, for all the stated reasons. In fact, he wrote that his "favorite rose will always be the next seedling to bloom, as it will be perfect!" Any rose he kept around, he delighted in studying, observing, "checking up on" regularly. Even when found lacking in some way, he would still stop to point out its good features, what made it worth its table space and would make it worth garden space in your garden. A rose didn't receive a name unless he found it worthy, and each was paid attention to every time it was encountered.

I doubt either he, Burling or Carolyn could truly say this one or that could be their "favorite" because each would be a favorite breeder, or a favorite fragrance, or a favorite propagator, etc. Pink Clouds was created more than half a century ago as a hedge rose, yet it doesn't look like anything special. However, it was in flower all over Burling's nursery when I was there April 7 as she uses it extensively for root stock. She keeps an enormous supply of it "pushing" as well as propagated so she may bud when needed. For that, it must be one of her favorites, but I doubt she would name it as the most beautiful or intriguing.

He definitely had favorite breeders. Ones which were used with every permutation of combinations in breeding. Used consistently enough that you would learn to see their contributions and characteristics in their offspring. And, he'd teach you what they were, why they were selected and what made them special so he could "talk them" with you, train you to see with educated eyes and then view them through YOURS.

I'm sure Irene Lindsey, who provided the marvelous photography used in the Sequoia catalogs for years and who is a cherished friend of all who worked, lived and frequently visited there, would say "Irene Marie" as she took to that rose and let it be known IF a rose were to be named for her, THAT should be it. It was.

I'm also sure many who will respond will be able to select their favorites and tell you why. I've grown many of his roses, both released and many which never were given names, nor ever offered for sale. Many were wonderful and intriguing for one reason, or many. I don't have room for them any longer, but I still have a few of his roses, probably always will. I maintain Cl. Yellow Sweetheart because I helped play a part in 'rediscovering' and identifying it from that lone, remaining plant in Glendale, Ca where it had grown for half a century. I grow Softee because it is also completely thornless, like Cl. Yellow Sweetheart and one I keep breeding with it as they should create a rather nice, thornless rose together. Softee also contains genes from two of his favored breeders, though he never thought to breed with it. Nothing against it, he admitted he'd just never thought of using it.

I grow 1-72-1, the unreleased sister seedling of Rise'n Shine because of its fertility and potential. The same with the unreleased 0-47-19, his R. Wichurana X Floradora cross from 1947. I grow Linda Campbell; an unnamed, unreleased red and white striped climbing seedling; Muriel, because he named it for his mother and it is the genesis of his Bracteata breeding. Out of Yesteryear and Out of the Night are out there as they are, in my opinion, and in my climate, two of his best Bracteatas. Red Fairy is there because he listened about it. He didn't know if anyone would buy it. I assured him they would. They have and he used my name for it. Several of the Persian series Hulthemias are out there for what they represent and because he took my suggestion for creating them as a "Persian" series. Hulthemia is indigenous to that region of the world, "The most noxious weed in Iran".

Morcrest is there because it is the beginning of his "Holy Grail", the crested hybrids. Morsoucrest (Dawn Crest) is there because it IS the best of his crested hybrids, and an EXCELLENT rose here in every way. Morqueencrest is there, even though it is certain to never flower here due to insufficient winter chill because it was bred from Queen Elizabeth and Crested Moss. Surely someone will be able to massage something good from it one day? Playtime is there because it is happy and makes me happy. Magic Wand belongs because it truly IS his "magic wand". It makes very healthy babies, is very fertile and totally clean here. Peach Halo is there because it is the largest flowered of his Halo roses, though definitely not a great plant. Halo Today is a happy mini tree out there because I like it best of the whole series. There is also an un named Halo seedling which resembles a water lily flower. I love how he recreated the look of Hulthemia without using Hulthemia at all. That's creative genius!

Rainforest is out there because it assorts beautifully with Greensleeves and Mint Julep and really IS pretty green. What wizardry does it require to breed orange with mossy deep red and come out with a lightly prickled GREEN!? Morsoul, or String of Pearls is there because it's a repeat flowering mini ground cover bred from Anytime and R. Soulieana! Cal Poly is here because it makes healthy, thornless and yellow babies. Kim Rupert is out there (in fact, two of them!) because it is mossed, healthy, striped and flowers like a weed. It's also quite fertile. It was selected to carry my name because it is mossed and striped, two characteristics which have always intrigued me. He is responsible for enabling everyone else to breed for mossed roses and all modern stripes originated from his striped miniature breeding.

I'm sure there are some I'm missing...they've all earned their places for one reason or another and I love them all. A "favorite"? All of them, all for the reasons stated. Kim

Of the Moore roses I've grown, MORsoucrest -- never released, and called "Dawn Crest" -- is probably my favorite.
Many of Mr. Moore's roses don't like my climate as much as I like the roses, which is sad.

Kim, I've never seen Muriel. I'd like to see that one day. You know I am a sucker for stripes.

One of the things I most valued about Mr. Moore's work was its inclusiveness. He offered through Sequoia Nursery a great many Old and unusual roses, because he had them as breeding stock, or at least POTENTIAL breeding stock. Any trip we made up Hwy 99 gave us a chance to stop at Sequoia and pick out a "souvenir" to take home, and so we came to grow a great many roses that passed through his hands.

One of our last visits to Sequoia was on Mr. Moore's 100th Birthday. That was the visit from which I brought home 'Willie Winkie,' and for some reason, that's the rose I think of first, when I think of my visits there.

Jeri

Muriel isn't striped, though. It's pink, semi double and half Bracteata which counts for something in my book. It's the origin of his Bracteata work. Kim

I'd probably like it. No room. That's why I no longer have Playtime -- but what a great rose it is!

Jeri

Hey, Dawncrest - on my order from Bierkreek and hugely looking forward to this one. Great that we can get it here in europe (though not in the UK). How ironic that it is not so easily available in the US. Am hoping it does well in dry and windy fenland (having noticed that mossing definately helps in these conditions).

Perhaps 'Sweet Chariot' because it seems to perform well in a number of climates, and is still around after nearly 30 years. It does have 58 favorite votes on helpmefind. ;)

It's a totally different retail climate here, campanula. Texas A&M hasn't found a producer who is interested in the rose. Hans was willing to give it a try. I think once it's much better known, it will find a market here. So far, it's just a pass along plant. I hope it's as disease resistant there as it is here. Only experimentation will tell. Kim

I second Sweet Chariot.

Disease-free year round here in hot, humid coastal South Carolina.

Kim,

About the "favorite" issue: you stated it very well originally and I understood it. I shouldn't have used "favorite" in my reply. More a poorly chosen catch-all synonym at the time. Time had something to do with it insomuch as I usually digest posts a while, but instead exuberantly rushed to answer you.

Truly enjoying your answers and everyone else's as well and hope that more will ensue.

Chris

Understood Chris. Thanks! Kim

I have only two of Mr. Moore's roses, 'Topaz Jewel' and "Blue Mist.' TJ hasn't bloomed yet so I have nothing to say about it, but I am fond of the various colors of blooms on BM, in the pinks to lavender ranges. Going into its third year it is a nicely shaped shrub of about 3 feet. It has bloomed a lot and stayed pretty healthy. I like it.

If it ever gets warm enough and you can get your face close enough to it, Gean, I think you'll enjoy Blue Mist's honeysuckle fragrance. Kim

I will keep my fingers crossed, Kim. It is a rose I have begun looking forward to seeing. Thanks for the heads up on the fragrance! honeysuckle, yummy.

I grow a few of the Ralph Moore roses and there is not one of them that I do not like but there are a few that I truly love. I grow the following Moore roses:

Green Ice
Linda Campbell
Moore's Striped Rugosa
Precious Dream
Twister
Vineyard Song
Vi's Violet

My favorite is probably Twister, the striped miniature climber. Twister covers itself with 2 1/2" flowers of red and white. Blooms are very double, easily having 50+ petal and open to a flat old fashion form and are very fragrant and very pretty. They also stand up well in extreme heat. While called a climber, it might be better thought of as a very tall and somewhat upright miniature. I have three planted together along a chain-link fence were they form a hedge 6' wide and a little over 4' tall. They are always healthy.

I would also second the praise for Linda Campbell and add a compliment for her half sister Moore's Striped Rugosa. Linda Campbell's flowers glow and I find myself drawn to her. I put both of these in at the beginning of last year and they are quickly building up to be nice plants.

Then there are the perfectly beautiful flowers of Precious Dream and the indescribable sight of Vineyard Song flowing out if full bloom. I'm going to make myself stop now.

Here is a link that might be useful: Red Dirt Roses Blog

My favorite Moore rose is 'Renae' Ralph S. Moore 1954
A beautiful plant altogether, a climbing small flowered rose, of lilac-pink, with great charm. Abundant leaves are shiny and attractive. It is so disease resistant in Oakland, Ca that c. a dozen were used in the no-spray Oakland Rose Garden, to climb up trellises, that flank "The Mothers Walk" a paved walkway with plaques to the mother of the year.
'Renae' has a light and evocative fragrance that is elusive but wonderful and when it appears it wafts on the air.
There are some splendid photos of it on helpmefind.com I especially like the photo of it covering a European summerhouse (what an American might call a gazebo). There it has earned 19 "favorite" rose votes.
Mr. Moore was an inspired rose breeder who used roses that few would consider at the time.

'Renae' has a China rose as a grandparent;

Gloire des Rosomanes' (!) a red China that I love to bits.
x Dorothy Perkins' a Rambler
which created:'Sierra Snowstorm'
and Mr. Moore crossed 'Sierra Snowstorm'
with
'Etoille Luisante' which resulted in 'Renae'.

'Renae' is my favorite small flowered climbing rose after cl. 'Cecille Brunner'

Luxrosa

I also love his 'Yellow Butterfly' a sweet little single yellow shrub rose that reminds me of 'Mermaid' without the daggers and huge size.

Add to such lofty praise that you will never find a prickle on her and you can see why she has had such a following for over half a century. She will drip down out of trees to flower in your face as you pass under her and she'll accomplish it all in partial or filtered sun as well as direct. The man in town who owned the drug store had a sister who died at a young age of cancer. The rose was named to honor her.

The "sisters" Carolyn Dean, Renae, Dancing Doll, Everbloom 1, all germinated in 1941, but were held for breeding until desired for memorials or introduction. In his later years, Mr. Moore "remembered" this line as being self seedlings of Etoile Luisante, however the information provided in 1954 in the patent, observed characteristics they possess and results of breeding with them don't support his later "memory". Kim

I suspect Renae would be my favorite from all the wonderful things I've heard about this rose, but I don't grow it. I have only one rose of Mr. Moore's, six bushes of Mr. Bluebird, and I'm very fond of this rose, although only one has attained the size and blooming ability I'd like all of them to have. Still, I love the almost single bluish-purple blooms and small, healthy leaves. It's a great filler plant because it's not immediately recognizable as a rose, and has a very delicate, airy appearance.

Ingrid

I was looking around HMF for some of the ones I'm unfamiliar with and I found a nice collection of Moore mini photos by Joan Richardson. See link below. I think they're on the subsequent (older) pages not the first page.

Here is a link that might be useful: Joan Richardson

He did love minis. I never tried it, but I always admired the pictures of his mini-moss, Dresden Doll.

Sorry late on this - Kim may have to help me with this one - I can find pictures of my best plant out of 210 Ralph Moore minis that I bought for Nor East's closing (I traded for more.)

A few I tried didn't make it long enough for me to say. But, oddly those were later additions.Except one =/

I grow them both in Tampa Bay and in PA - with different results. ALL of my Ralph Moore minis in St. Pete - are grafted on Fortuniana. Not all need it - especially certain climbers. Give me a day to look at my hmf listing or I can scan my order forms.

I will ONLY trade with people I know either in real life or thru online sorry. I met a couple bad traders. I'd MUCH rather pay my end first, either cash for cuttings or rooted. It is my desire to have an almost complete collection. grovers garden on hmf not 100 % up to date. I grow some plants in PA (10 plus acres) and NOT Fl. Also trying a couple in Virginia.

It's a tricolor climber here. White edges to yellow to pink center very double. Nearly thornless - roots great no problem own root in Fl. I've tried a couple dozen to make sure it wasn't a fluke. I think it could work for a rootstock. My Pink clouds died so I can not compare.
Regards,
Andrew Grover

PS on my 3rd year of hybridizing with JUST RM minis.

Alright, logging in for once. Happy Birthday to me. laughs.

If you are to ask anyone it is Kim. I'm Florida not California. No matter how much I love Ralph Moore roses I'll never have the expertise of Kim. I've tried 200 plus Ralph Moores in Florida have over 200 left. Best BY FAR for Florida - read "for me" - Have been the climbers he grew.

But, that applies for growing in sandy soil of Florida.
Morcrest was great 1-72-1 I couldn't ask for more. Green Ice is great in Florida. It is all different for me. The climbing minis and bractea have been great for me.

I'd pay $ to touch base with Burling - she is the best. Preserve his roses. She doesn't ship to Fl.

So, to the person that said I was famous today, talk to her and Kim! I'm just a stupid zone pusher. One day I hope to find a way to introduce my crosses.

Kim and Burling have life experiences I could never touch. I have some poems. I've never met the man . I just do not want to see his roses go extinct. Alister Clark is another.

Florinda Norman Thompson is a rose I've called all over the world looking for -

The only info found so far has been .... Flower large, full, globular, lasting, fragrant, delicate rose on lemon, deep at base, reflex edged 1/4inch with shell-pink on lemon, borne on stiff stem. Foliage leathery, glossy. Growth vigorous; profuse bloomer.The grandson of this great plant hunter is looking for a rose from
Dickson's (1920s) named for his grandmother:'Florinda Norman Thompson'
and would appreciate any information, photo, etc.
Please dig deep ladies and gentlemen . =)
I appreciate your time, and would love to find this rose.

How to Grow Roses Successfully Frank Mason 1983 P 2.50
Roses For New Zealand Conditions 2nd ed Frank Mason 1958 P 2.00

Here's the entry for 'Nancy Elizabeth' in "New Roses of the World
(1950):

'Nancy Elizabeth' Hybrid Tea. (Frank Mason, 1947). 'Korovo' x 'Florinda
Norman Thompson'. Large, long pointed bud. Large, high-centered, double
bloom borne several together. Cream. Moderate fragrance...

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/ezine.php?i=B522&tab=1

Also a listing for Pat Mason comes up same year. Married ? 200 hundred roses in garden , only 10 or so listed in helpmefind under Pat Mason.

Frank Mason & Son Ltd.
Sandon Road
P.O. Box 155
Feilding, New Zealand
06-323-5226
I have found several pictures of Florinda Norman Thompson in her family geneology records, but no rose yet.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?i=U156&tab=8
Alex Sutton's info on Florinda Norman Thompson

How to Grow Roses Successfully Frank Mason 1983
Roses For New Zealand Conditions 2nd ed Frank Mason 1958
May help. Found at http://touchwoodbooks.co.nz/2h/tsecroses.html

Frank Mason also grew Little John. He is the only person who I have found that has owned the plant.
If anyone can help I'd love to help someone else with a cutting. Thank You.

Regards,
Andrew Grover
St. Pete Fl

I'll scan my order this weekend. I'm missing 10 out of the original order. I've gained about 30 ? So I'm guessing I have 230 or so of Ralph Moore's roses. I've never saw a single one bloom like they want to in California. I just do cuttings to keep my collection alive.

'Sweet Chariot' is very good here in the mountains. Very showy, graceful, and free blooming. I agree with mike_rivers that it should be considered a polyantha. 'Topaz Jewel' is good here as well.