I have grown monardas for years. Their habit is to expand from the center outward, and they will do that rather rapidly once they're established. But, it's also very easy to control the size of the expanding mother plant by digging and removing portions of the plant around the edges. I do it about every three years and give the plants away. It works for me; others may have other opinions.

I live in Eastern WA and my soil is pretty sandy altho the spot where I have bee balm has been super-amended, it does seem to spread a little but I wouldn't consider it invasive. Add to that the roots are not very deep so a little pluck here and a little there and I keep it well in control. So much so that I've three varieties and just added dwarf monarda this fall. Oh, and I water as little as possible (maybe that is why it is so well behaved?).

I vote plant them together where you can keep an eye on 'em and if they get unruly, you can snag them before it gets out on control?

It depends on the type of Monarda and the growing conditions. My red Bee balm (Monarda didyma) and 'Raspberry Wine' are growing in rich organic soil (made from a lasagne bed) that is usually moist and partial sun. The clumps started out small and seem to quadruple every year. Yes, quadruple. They have spread aggressively into the neighboring plants and the nearby path. This year I'm having to dig up a lot and give away or compost.

What I describe is a worst case scenario. If they are in drier or leaner soil they will spread less. I had some red Monarda in a garden that is very dry because of roots from a nearby Silver maple and it is slowly dying out.

'Coral Reef' might also be a less aggressive cultivar.

My 'M. 'Gardenview Scarlet' does spread aggressively.
But 'Marshall Delight' hardly spreads at all. So As terrene said, it does depend on the type.

I have a pink one that has almost doubled in size in one year. My neighbor up the road has a red one that also spread a lot in one year. However, I agree that it isn't invasive and should be easy to control as it just gets bigger from the center. They perform wonderfully so enjoy!

Coral Reef is quite polite for me. It's smaller and less aggressive than some others. I love the color and the hummingbirds don't seem to enjoy it too.

mao

I have many monarda and some good winters, they really come through and I have to pull up some areas to contain them. Open, cold winters, I may lose almost all. The red ones, and Blue Stocking seem to be most aggressive for me. Marshall's Delight just sat doing nothing for several years in clay soil so moved it last year and it is beautiful this year. Put in Coral Reef last year and it really is having a struggle so feel it may not be as prolific as the others. Petite Delight is a treasure. Mary

The Monarda I have in full sun stays as a nice clump. Every spring I just rip out what I don't want and I thin from within (to try to prevent mildew). However, the Monarda I have in partial sun doesn't clump, it is sort of thin and dispersed (same type, btw), which I don't like.

I haven't had an aggressiveness problem here with "Jacob Cline", a clump of which has been receding in size the past few years (in full sun, well-drained but not dry soil).

The shallow-rootedness would typically make for easy control even if a cultivar was overly happy.

I'm just north of you in NH, and have the same to report as terrene; Raspberry Wine, and Marshall's Delight make a nice show, but I made sure to give them their OWN space, or put in a bed that I didn't mind them spreading out.
They are gorgeous en masse, and attract lots of bees & butterflies

I have Jacob Cline and it is invasive but very easy to control as it has shallow roots and I just pull up what I don't want. Years ago, I had Monarda Marshals delight, that was very invasive and prone to mildew...I got rid of that.
I also have a variety of catmint that gets tall. It is invasive too, but like the Jacob Cline, easy to pull out.
The flowers on these are so pretty it's worth thinning them out every spring.

Nancy VB

I'm thinking of transplanting my beebalm to the area where I have so many unwamnted plants. I dug them up just few minutes ago and my body is sore. Will beebalm win over these unwanted plants like crabgrass, clover, dandelion(just few)?

Thanks!

101, i do not think the monarda would win vs those gladiators.
mindy

You need to pull up the weeds (clover, crabgrass, dandelion) before transplanting anything there.

They are so easy to pull up that I wouldn't consider them invasive. Just rip them out when you don't like how they are spreading. Too me invasive is something that you can't control. These are very easily controlled with very minimal effort.

sue36, I have weeds and grasses that are very tough to pull. Tag o' war. LOL. Sometimes, the roots gets cut :(

They are so beautiful. Like everyone has said, they are easy to control. I wish mine would go a little crazier. There are lots of spots I would like to move them to.

I have Jacob Kline (sorry if I misspelled that) and it's probably no more aggressive than other bee balm. Beautiful tall gorgeous red. As others have said, yes they spread, but they can be controlled by digging up the invaders. You'll have lots to give to friends or spread into areas that you want to fill up.

It's native to the eastern US, so it's hardly 'invasive', but it can be an aggressive spreader under ideal conditions.

But mine hasn't spread at all.

I wish they were as invasive as some people say. I have "Blue Stocking", "Jacob Cline", "Marshall's Delight" and they don't go crazy at all. My Marshall's probably got a bit too much shade and has mostly disappeared. There's a few shoots that refuse to die that I really should relocate, and soon ;)

Well, technically speaking, "invasive" would apply to non-native plants that not only spread vigorously in the landscape, but also naturalize in the wild and displace or kill native plants (i.e. Oriental bittersweet).

I am kind of surprised that Monarda isn't a rampant spreader for some people. But when it does spread, I agree that it is fairly easy to control.

Anyone in Z 8 for Xperience with this? Jacob Kline type of Bee Balm. Anyone knowing true deep South then this zone has clay soil, however, I am notorious for expansion annually to my potted herb collection until the best grounded kinds get big enough to be planted in this soil type "and" survive. Raised down here and know all too well the sacrifices and funds lost to not ready plants. . .

Lot of variability in zone 8 :-) I am in zone 8/9 and about as far away from the "deep south" you can get and still be in the same country!! Monarda 'Jacob Cline' (not Kline) is the only one I grow, because of its taller stature, deep color and mildew resistance. I do not find it the slightest bit difficult to control. Yes, it can spread aggressively but extremely easy to remove where not wanted. I don't find it the slightest bit choosy about soil conditions, either

@Ken_Adrian I'm sorry if you think my replied posting about the same plant isn't in line with the same discussion. If you happily scroll thru the posts you will see no others prior posted from my zone or further South! So yes, it does have something to do with a species survival.....environment as much as food source, etc.

I appreciate the help offered for the posting on the site, I have learned some already and please forgive me for having just created my account and not had time to update my profile. But Z8 spans a lot in the US if looking at a zone map.....so IF my location is THAT vital, it is NW part of LA (that's Louisiana, not LA Cali).... I was in the middle of planting newbies that I got yesterday.

I'm not all entirely wanting just "local varieties" that would survive around here as everyone has the same thing and I'm not a follower. I like doing my own thing and having my own compilation for many reasons and not just for culinary used but also things already available to me everywhere around me, I want "diversity" and easily accessible to me for making my own incense.

I do appreciate the thought though! And soon as I can, I'll update my profile...But I do have a few priorities set for today while I'm having a semi good one. . . as they are very rare anymore.

@GardenGal Please forgive me if my post is mistaken for a misspelling and for any grammar police on duty.....here is the pic of what it says on my plant no matter what variation others may want to call it or however they want to spell it. I'm NOT wasting my time about something so small like this to take up my day....

This type of info is "not" what I posted about and was looking for, so please, any unnecessary additives that one might think may help in lines of trying to correct someone, hold your reserves as I'm not a child on here!

Also, for the 2nd part of the posting and valuable info about this plant GardenGal......that is EXACTLY what I needed and for someone to tell me I should make my own post about the same item? Lol..... That LITTLE BIT of info you gave me allowed me to know exactly what I need to do with that plant and I do See and cherish ppl that can help others achieve things in a more so direct approach....

Like the shortest line between 2 points is a straight line. With so many having time and health ripped from them moment by moment at times after an accident, moments like this have become the example for those needing to learn how to "efficiently" communicate with your elders and peers!

Maybe the spelling changes some per zone.... Hmmmmm. Interesting contemplation

Brett, sensitive to your complaints. Still re the beebalm, the name Monarda 'Jacob Cline', does follow the international rules for naming cultivated plants. The correct name/spelling is the one that was published first. That doesn't mean that there's never reasons for disagreement over particular names.

On the other hand, 'Cline' or 'Kline', in posts on sites such as Gardenweb, what does it matter? Personally, I don't see the need to correct other people there. If getting the spelling correct is important, it's surely enough to simply use the correct name/spelling in a response to a post. That seems a more respectful way to introduce a correction. And, of course, a corrected spelling can be ignored by those who, as they say, " don't care to sweat the small stuff".

@sunnyboarders If the whole post of mine was read, I did thank GardenGal for having posted the info she did. IF it is a matter of spelling then fine about whichever is published. I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong as I have never thought I was above anyone in life. But should critiquing someone come at such leisure (absent the additional stuff of course) then perhaps your post shouldn't come into being on a thread/comment section as this when my original was CLEARLY an inquiry about a plant for whoever's sake... All this unnecessariness is just that!

@GardenGal.... TY for sharing in that also as I did already mention if I was wrong then I did apologize... About posting whatever is desired then so be it.....as should That same rule apply to newbies as well, incldg myself, and be a blanket of coverage for all. Also my original posting shouldn't have been corrected or told to post elsewhere from the get.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander....so to speak.... Or lets say I learned ages ago that double standards don't and won't work with me as they shouldn't with anyone. That shows and gives the OK for disrespect.....for oneself that is is attempting the dbl standard as well as the disrespect to another innocent person, human, etc. This is a slap in the face of your very own species for those believing that dbl standards should apply.

It's ok and I'm sorry for having taken offense to it....it started with one and just takes this fire a little bit to settle down which I should have opted for time to do such before continuing. Before when I have tried helping others with things (incldg my professors being challenged in classes) to reach a mid way point and all I usually give an explanation behind why my decision was different and then leave it up to that other person to receive it how they may and utilize that info they may not have known about before or maybe a differing, fresher, brighter means of viewing things....

Ok, for rest of the day, I've apologized twice and not beating a dead horse but heading in starting off day with imaging tests for spine/nerve damage. All have a good day.

@GardenGal I do agree with you also in that names should be credited properly...after my studying for years....comes from years of referencing.....lol

Well then perhaps search engines shouldn't be "resurrecting old posts" as is apparently what seems to be an issue here whenever someone "innocently" types into a search engine the same question about the same plant and it brings those innocent people here! All I did was make an inquiry about the plant. Then I was attacked and quite frankly if this is how "netiquette" is seen as viable with this site then I can take it that the proper avenues can be explored further beyond this and perhaps this is why this site pops up......for too much/too high a turn over rate. . .

So maybe when someone inquired period with a specific question then maybe the site's search terminology trigger words to make it appear should be more narrowed. And lets not say it can't be done.... If I can do it for my etsy online shop then it can be done across the board in today's day and time. Kind of like.....a website makeover or update.

It seems apparently no matter what doesn't appease some folks and lets face it....I'm not in my life to make others happy....that wouldn't logical. Right? So I'm done GardenGal!

@sunnyboarders Thank You so much! I'll know results tomorrow morning. Most likely know the answer already....Lol. Hope your week is a good one

I have purchased a Monarda 'Cambridge Scarlet' without knowing it's invasive. I'm thinking of planting it in an enclosed bed - the bed is on the ground & has 6" cedar boards around it. Would that be enough to prevent it from spreading to my lawn? I'm hoping it would just grow inside the boards. I'm located in central Canada - just wondering if the location makes a difference?

It's not at all invasive.....it just has a tendency to spread, sometimes a little aggressively :-) I seriously doubt it will migrate into your lawn, even less so with a wood border around it. If it did (which I doubt), mowing the lawn would eliminate any concerns. And extremely easy to remove if expanding too much or growing where not wanted.

The term "invasive" gets bandied about too frequently and usually incorrectly. Monarda didyma is a native plant and it is extremely rare - virtually unheard of - for any native species to be considered 'invasive'. That term should be restricted to non-native or exotic plants that overtake natural areas and outcompete the native species....like kudzu or burning bush.

A great many plants - perennials and shrubs; some trees - will expand by increasing their undergound root systems or via rhizomes. Sometimes they will do so more vigorously than a gardener might want. But it does not make them invasive!!

Agree with some above in their hesitation to call beebalm invasive; it's so easy to pull out . Have grown it on both amended sandy soil but mostly on amended clay soil.

Have grown both 'Cambridge Scarlet' and the rather similar 'Gardenview Scarlet' in mixed perennial beds. It's certainly true that once established, such cultivars can really move around. It's just necessary to remove some of such plants on a yearly basis (as said above). My problem has been that beebalm is so easy to pull out, I tend not to use the care I'd normally use in dividing and reducing perennials in fall: hence we lost both of those cultivars after a number of years.

I did replace the 'Gardenview Scarlet' but it was my experience that 'Cambridge Scarlet' (see also reference below) is powdery mildew prone. I've never seen the mildew on any of our 'Gardenview Scarlet'.

NA, it may be better to plant a more mildew-resistant cultivar.

The earlier purchased 'Gardenview Scarlet' before a Fall reckoning (July 8, 2010).

https://www.chicagobotanic.org/downloads/planteval_notes/no12_monarda.pdf

Thanks for the info. I feel a bit better about planting it. My enclosed bed is 4' x 8' & wondering if I could plant it with another invasive plant? I'd like to keep the invasive plants together. Good or bad idea? I've always stayed away from invasive plants, but I purchased some plants at our local store for a very good price because they needed TLC. Since I didn't really know anything about those plants, some of them are invasive - I'm usually more selective - usually do my homework, but at 75% off & some at .25 cents, I didn't even think of any being invasive.

To be honest, NA, I would avoid planting strongly invasive perennials in what were intended to be mixed perennial beds; plants like goutweed/bishop's weed, chameleon plant, crown vetch, Chinese lantern, ditch lilies etc.. I'm sure that many of us once planted such perennials and come to regret it later on.

If the plants are simply tough, strong growing, (David Tomlinson says "thugs") that can more than hold their own in a perennial bed, it can certainly be a good idea to hem them in with another such tough plant (if not with a wall, path, etc.).

Thanks, sunnyborders for the info. I don't think my other perennials are strongly invasive, maybe just "thugs", not sure? Since I have no experience growing invasive plants I would like to know if the plants I have left to plant would grow together in my 4' x 8' enclosed beds - besides the Monarda, I have Lavatera 'Burgundy Wine', Anemone 'Honorine Jobert', Alcea Rosea 'Charter's Double' & Alcea Rosea 'Halo Cerise'. I also have Echinops Retro & from what I've read it doesn't seem invasive but wonder if it could grow with the others? I have a couple of 4' x 8' enclosed beds left.

NA, re your plants, I haven't grown those cultivars but have grown evidently similar one.

Re Echinops ritro: would also recommend Echinops ritro myself: Had no problem at all with several cultivars. Have found even great globe flower (different species), think we have 'Arctic Glow', takes up space, but is very clump-forming.

Re the tree mallow (the Lavatera): only grown Kashmiri tree mallow; relatively short-lived but, in this case, gently reseeding. Very hardy here.

Re the hollyhocks (Alcea): never had any success with them. Not sure why, but they're apparently short-lived but reseed themselves. No problem with invasion, by seed, with that sort of perennial to my knowledge (at least in our growing conditions).

Re that heritage Anemone cultivar: have tended to avoid garden (hybrid) anemones as too prone to run. Was one already there when I put a mixed perennial garden in in 2000 (garden which I still maintain). Never succeeded in eradicating (by hand) that one well established hybrid Anemone. It's very worst behaviour was running into shrubs.

However, after reading other folk on the GW Anenome 'Honorine Jobert' thread you were on, I came to change my mind about that plant. I still chop away at bits of it, but it really adds to providing flower colour at a time of the growing season when fewer attractive perennials are coming into bloom. I guess then if you're attractive enough, you can get away with a bit of misbehaviour!