Kmama, you don't indicate whether you need to grow the roses as shrubs or whether they can be trained as climbers in your space. If it's the former, many polyanthas will do the job with appropriate pruning. If it's as a climber, Grandmother's Hat can work very easily. Several others I would suggest are Renae, Opal Brunner and my Annie Laurie McDowell. All are thornless and all should be available from Burlington Roses in Visalia. All four of the roses I've suggested are also very fragrant, quite shade tolerant as healthy as anything you're going to find.

None of them are Old Garden Roses, but neither is your questioned Golden Celebration, which, in my experience, will NOT fit your three to four foot space. It wants to be BIG to produce the flowering you expect from it. I recently removed it from a planter similar to what you describe where I had tried it for nearly five years. Too much plant for far too little flower in that small a space and it is NO WHERE near "thornless", possessing sharp, hooked prickles which rudely reminded me every time I encountered it that I was really not pleased by its performance. It can be a glorious rose in a larger space, but not where you have to become too intimate with it.

If you're trying to fill a three foot deep bed, you may want something which can get three feet in diameter. Three feet around would be more like a foot to a foot in diameter. Think a circle, diameter and pie to determine which you're referring to. Three feet in circumference would give it about a foot in diameter. To get that, you're talking more of a miniature rose, though some of those can get very large. It's the flower size which classifies it as "miniature".

So, if you can put up supports against your wall, whether it is a trellis, screws and/or nails into the wall with wires strung between them for support or something like the Tumax Trellis Kit (which I've often used and found as satisfactory as any and better than most), you can easily train Grandmother's Hat, Renae, Opal Brunner or Annie Laurie McDowell as a climber and maintain them three to four feet thick along your wall and never get "bitten" by them. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Tumax Trellis Kit

The best rose I have for a small space is Mr. Bluebird by Ralph Moore, which is basically a China cross. It's a beautiful small bushy plant with wonderful foliage and purplish, almost single flowers that I think are enchanting. Not overly thorny at all, will stay small and for me is completely healthy. I have six of them since their short stature makes them easy to tuck into many places. For me (warm, dry climate)it flowers continuously. Rogue Valley carries it.

Ingrid

I have, or have grown, Golden Wings, Gilbert Nabonnand, and Mrs. Dudley Cross here in Livermore. All are naturally robust shrubs. My beloved Golden Wings is about 6' tall and at least 7' wide, even growing in a semi-wild area on the outskirts of a Valley Oak canopy with lots of root competition and conditions on the dry side. In my experience, it looks best if not pruned too hard and I have trouble imagining it as 3' in any case. GN and MDC were your typical monster teas. I say "were" because they were also insufferable mildew magnets, especially GN, (I don't expect my teas to have perfect foliage here, by any means, but there is a limit...), and have since left the grounds.

Maybe I'm not understanding correctly the situation you are describing, but to me, it sound like the long narrow strip I had available between my neighbor's garage and my driveway.

My solution was to select roses known to be more vertical growers rather than shrublike growers that can get quite wide. For me, the best vertical growers are hybrid teas, although I read the descriptions carefully to make sure I didn't select any that are noted for a more spreading tendency. Hybrid perpetuals could also work --if you want old roses instead of modern roses.

My narrow strip features multiples of Elina (creamy white/light yellow center), Peter Mayle (bright hot pink), and Mrs. Laing (hypbrid perpetual, medium pink). I love my narrow strip and my vertical growing roses don't need to be pruned all the time to fit into the narrow strip.

I didn't select for prickles, so can't help you on that score.

Kate

'Gruss an Aachen'/'Pink Gruss an Aachen' has been reliably petite here for over a decade.

I have a hybrid perpetual, Ulrich Brunner Fils, that I prune to end up at 5 - 6' tall. It is vase-shaped and does not get more than about 3' - 4' wide at the top. It is fragrant, thornless and very healthy. If you are looking for a BRIGHT pink (it sort of stands out in my yard right now!), there's a potential candidate.

Thank you all for the feedback and ideas.

Yes, I have a narrow planting bed between the house and the lawn which is essentially the only place I have for the roses. In some areas, I can go vertically up the house (I'm going to use RdV and EvS and Grandmothers hat in those areas)... but am still stumped about the shrubs and my preference is to get OGR and antique roses. I love the notion of having a little bit of history, preserving an heirloom in my yard.

I'm glad to hear the Pink Gruss an Aachen is reliably petite. That's one of my favorites from the description. And my mom is giving me one of her SdLM that's in a pot, and from what I can tell that will also work in my space.

But really, it is so helpful to hear from you all about how realistically big those other roses get out in the "real world." Descriptions are fun, but practical knowledge is good, too.

Catspa, thanks for the suggestion. It looks like it's in the same category (and growth habit on Vintage Gardens) as the Grandmother's Hat and I love the intense color. I wonder how it handles the full direct sun of Contra Costa County? (You're in Livermore, right... so I'm guessing similar heat intensity.)

I'm still learning about how roses grow so forgive the seemingly silly question, but with the Ulrich Brunner Fils, does it only produce flowers at the top of the plant, or does/can it produce flowers from the ground up, making more of a "wall of flowers" effect.

Thanks!
KMama

No suggestions here - but to avoid confusion, I think when roseseek says diameter, she/he is meaning to type radius.

diameter = distance across circle, passing through center
radius = distance from center to edge of circle

KMama, Ulrich Brunner does okay with the heat, even in full sun all day -- the petals have a fair amount of substance. Pruned this way, does not bloom from the ground up. Of his current 5', the bottom 2' are mostly bare and the top 3' are lush flowers and leaves. Rose du Roi of commerce is planted in front to cover the naked legs, but they aren't that ugly. This is my "loud red-pinks" corner, next to the deep orange flowers of a pomegranate -- it is very colorful over there! My plant came from my Mom's Ulrich Brunner, which she has had for over 50 years now in Santa Rosa, and it pretty much stays this same size and shape, the way we prune it. -- Debbie

Have you considered growing miniature rose climbers? The blooms are small but usually prolific and the plants aren't usually more than 3 feet wide,