You plant natives into native soil of the kind they normally would grow in.

If you are planting a vegetable garden, or annual flower bed, you amend the entire patch by mixing in at least 2 inches of compost each season you plant.

If you are planting natives, use the "native soil" ... they are adapted to it. Do not amend or fertilize.

Dig the holes as deep as the root ball and 2 or 3 times as wide, and backfill with the dirt you removed from the holes.

I dig hole, fill with water and let drain, then plant and water again.

Mulch will help retain water and suppress weeds, but keep it a few inches away from the base of the plant. They can be picky about dampness near their stems.

Thanks for chasing away those nagging doubts! So, my approach will be amend only in areas we are going against the natives...like the "getting smaller all the time, but he won't budge" area that will get lawn...but that is a totally different thread. :)

Since I paid money to hear a speaker at a landscape show, I took notes and here are my notes.

California native are more drought resistant then Mediterranean natives

if you are instead growing Mediterranean natives they will need more water

((Mediterranean natives are nicer *more flowers* then CA natives (this is my personal theory, not the speaker's))

Ca Natives don't like compost in the soil

the preferred mulch for ca natives is gorilla hair

Ca natives don't like drip irrigation or reclaimed water

Ca natives don't need to be burned down with fire

weeds must be controlled and he uses round up

like to be top sprayed and not deep watered to the roots

One beer hand watering system, grab a beer, go water with hose, when the beer is empty you are done watering

(I would think they would not like the get their leaves wet, but I never grow CA natives, they hate San Francisco fog)

Here is a link that might be useful: CA natives website (guy who gave lecture)

..
Which California? Costal or inland? North or south? Central? Fog or not?

I think you still need to feed the soil. Not much is going to grow in soil depleted of nutrients.

One reason I'm interested in natives is to support native fauna and flora. In particular pollinators. Even though roundup is a herbicide, not an insecticide, I just don't like the idea. Then, I don't have a huge plot to care for either.

Thank you for the link tropical thought. I notice they're located in Escondido. I'd expect natives in Escondido to be quite different than San Francisco. I'd expect Southern California natives to be quite different than Northern California. I try to avoid natives from the north down here in the south.
..

Which California? Costal or inland? North or south? Central? Fog or not?

That's along the same lines I was thinking. California is just a set of borders. To say any California native will do just fine anywhere in California is probably over simplifying. The plants that are native to Death Valley are going to have requirements that are just a tad different from those that are native to Yosemite valley, no?

There is a certain group of plants called CA natives. They will not do well at the coast. When we say CA natives we mean heat loving water saving plants. Ceanothus is a common example.

..
Well, for Frisco, I'm sure Channel Island natives would do just fine. Drought tolerant. I suspect there are plants closer to home.

I'm sure there's a local branch of the California Native Plant Society you can contact.

to sense
..

Here is a link that might be useful: California Native Plant Society

I can grow almost everything I want to grow with soil improvement. I can grow all the standard garden plants, so I have no reason to want to try natives at all. I don't have a lot of space to try new things. I am always looking for friends to give away plants because I run out of space. I like to propagate and buy new plants occasionally.

There is a certain group of plants called CA natives. They will not do well at the coast. When we say CA natives we mean heat loving water saving plants. Ceanothus is a common example.

I'm not sure you need to get anywhere that specific. A great many West Coast native plants can grow in a huge variety of locations - that's why you can find coastal redwoods growing in the midwest! As for the so-called 'heat lovers' water saving plants, these too grow in a wide range of locations that offer dry summers and mild wetter winters. For example, Ceanothus does fine in the Puget Sound area of the Pacific Northwest, as does Pacific wax myrtle, manzanita and host of other coastal native plants. And we are nowhere near as warm in summer and quite a bit wetter in winter....but we ARE dry in summer and mild in winter.

But I would also caution against amending for native plants. These tend to grow naturally where soil conditions are quite lean - minimal organic matter and generally not nutrient rich. Very few soil types are completely devoid of nutrients. Just because the soil looks a little stark and you have not previously amended it does not mean it seriously lacks nutrients.

My city did this I thought was cool. They have a list on pdf.

http://www.westminster-ca.gov/depts/pw/water/water_conservation_garden_.asp

..
"When we say CA natives we mean heat loving water saving plants."

Please just say 'heat loving water saving plants' then. California natives are not necessarily heat loving or water saving.

to sense
..

When I planted CA natives and Mediterranean/xeric plants in my suburban parcel's soil - which was alkaline, low in organic content and low in nutrients - the plants sulked and occasionally died in wet conditions. When I worked in composted organic matter and used compost teas, I saw marked improvement. When I started pouring diluted sugars, urea and seaweed emulsion over the yard before the really nicely spaced storms we've had this year, I finally saw the level of plant health, bloom and disease & pest resistance I'd hoped for all along.

{{gwi:282709}}

Wouldn't native chaparral and grassland soils be significantly better than our suburban lots, which are microbe-poor as well as o.m. poor?

I think rott is right. Read these little facts

http://www.laspilitas.com/classes/Garden_Myths.html

And dicot, nice pic. I always ride around looking for natives growing from the cracks of the streets and lots around here:-)

I don't know, but I use a lot of compost, if I dared to plant for example even a water saving plant it would not do well or would die. The compost seems better suited to traditional garden plants like roses and hydrangeas. But, San Francisco is cold and foggy most of the time.

I just read the linked article about CA natives and it made me think of the biggest myth of all about CA natives. It is that they are easy to grow and you can just plant them and walk away and do nothing. They will grow just by themselves right?

If you notice the article said CA natives are not hard to grow, not easy to grow. CA natives are the same as other garden plants. The more work and fuss you put into them the better they will be.

If one wants the lowest possible work garden get a small area with a lawn and some easy bushes but no flowers. Every two weeks have the garden service come mow the lawn and trim the bushes. Water with sprinklers. No work at all. When I say no flowers I mean the bushes can have small flower on them, but if you start planting annual flowers your work will be increased.

TT, do you think the organic matter might be doing the same for us both, but having different results -- retaining soil moisture? Your soils may be lush and further o.m. encourages root root and lack of O2 in your beds, whereas my lot was so deficient in om or anything that prevented my yard from being either brick-like chunks (that could only be worked when moist) or that powdery, water-repelling, nearly sterile soil. The o.m. gave me tilth & structure, instead of leading to the saturated conditions excess om can cause.

I believe tweaking the C:N ratio plays into it too, as does the presence or absences of mycorrhizal associations in your soils already, but I might also need to be set straight, as I'm out of my depth quickly here.

I would think it would depend on your climate as well? As in do you get alot of rain? Do you get alot of sun? Like TT said, water saving plants would not do well in her area and her soil would retain too much moisture. But if you put her soil in your area the plants might do better. Does that make sense? But I do know that beneficial fungi is a good thing.

Dicot the weather in San Francisco is much colder then near by areas. Our micro climate has very cold summer with lack of sun and heat.

Blaze I know the beneficial fungi thing is not a good idea at all. When I heard you can not even till your soil very much with so called mycorrhizal. This person is trying to sell you a bill of goods. If you can't turn your soil because you will upset the mycorrhizal what is up with that?

If you want to grow mushrooms add a lot of wood, don't turn your soil, but if you want to grow plants you need to turn the soil at least a few feet down. The soil will not improve if you don't get compost worked into it.

If you just put the compost on top it won't work down. I have an area of unamended sand. My whole garden was like that. It is hard as a rock water will not go in to it. It make a lot of dust that makes me allergic. I put kellogs amend and compost, but to my surprise it got blown away by some winds. It got pushes to the fence and then stopped there. I have to dig that down to at least five inches or more and dig in that stuff, but I can't break it with the shovel.

The point is if you don't dig in the compost and stuff you are never going to be very much improvement in your soil. Sudden Oak death is also a fungus. One may not want encourage fungus at all in the garden.

If I get some fungus action going that will be from my composting as a side issue, but the goal of soil improvement is not to grow lots of fungus unless you want a mushroom farm or something else like that. Some mushrooms are attractive to look at. But, you get nice ones from a dead stump, you don't have to work at it.

..
Probably no need to promote mushrooms in a moist climate. You'll get good and bad fungus just like you get good and bad bacteria, phages, weeds, bugs and so on.

WRT simply top dressing, it's no quick fix but mulching that hard dry spot will get you to the point where you can work it. My favorite is used coffee grounds with grass clippings on top. The grass clippings negates the coffee grounds crusting and worms really love the coffee grounds and start working the soil. In that scenario I've found lots of worms close to the top of the coffee grounds and now I can pull weeds out of that once really hard soil.

Grass clippings don't seem to blow away in the wind either.

to sense
..

That is the best thing about composting a lot. Once you get the soil soft you don't even pull weeds. I take an old steak knife and I just mow them down. Or one can use a garden fork or claw. It is no work at all and it is not stressful on your hands. Pulling them one by one is much too slow. I wipe them out when they are very tiny in one quick motion. I even defeated the hairy bittercrest.

If composting helps CA natives, it would have to be in a hot area in which they like to grow. If I had a different house in a hot area like Sacramento, I would like to run an test to see if compost could help them. But, the massive amounts of compost I generate would have to be harmful to them. I can't use restraint. I think some compost in moderation may create a benefit for CA natives, but I am not really sure.

..
I like the big splat application of compost too. I had to start making more because I couldn't stand carefully going about and strategically measuring out compost where I thought it most needed it.

WRT compost and natives, I wouldn't paint with a broad brush. I'm sure there are desert varieties that would be susceptible to rot and such. A slow growth variety might have problems too. I can't imagine though, a California Sycamore or a Pepper Tree have any troubles being planted in a rich compost mix.

I'm wondering about some Matilja Poppies I just scored. I got 'em off CraigsList and was told to dig out to the root clumps and when I re-planted not to water too much. A little more than a week later, they look sad but not dead yet. Had no compost to add so just stuck them in clay after digging them out of sand. Waiting to see.

to sense
..

I have 3 coastal redwoods that are now about 3 ft tall this in containers. Going to plant them this spring...two of them I am planting in an area that will give them plenty of room to grow. I wanted to plant 1 closer to the house and keep small and keep trimmed to about 15 foot, can I do this to a redwood? If so how. thanks

We landscaped our sunny suburban lot with CA natives about 20 years ago. We had very hard brick-like clay soil but did not amend it other than adding gypsum to break up the clods. Everything was on drip for the first few years and always mulched with wood chips. We added fertlizer tabs at planting (in the fall) but nothing after that. I remember the zauschneria almost took over the neighborhood and the buckwheat also thrived. The ceanothus did very well for about 5 years and then it started to decline, possibly because I didn't remove the irrigation soon enough.

I would add that compost and OM isn't the only thing that causes soil to retain moisture - clay soil, by its nature retains moisture.

I used to run a landscaping business in NorCal and I planted a lot of CA native gardens.

In general you wouldn't amend the soil for native plants, but that's assuming you're planting locally native plants in the same kind of soil and habitat they would normally be growing in. And that your soil is relatively healthy. Stripped, graded, compacted soil from recent construction will need some kind of work before you could plant anything except stuff that likes those conditions.

California is a political designation, plants don't care. There are multiple ecoregions within that political boundary. Plants native to one, won't necessarily grow that well in others. I had a real issue with that in my landscaping. Most of the 'CA Native' plants available from nurseries were from particular ecoregions, like the Channel Islands. They did ok most of the time but they weren't frost tolerant at all. Bush monkey flowers (Diplacus) were a popular native plant when I was working there, but they barely made it through most SF Bay Area winters and were all wiped out in one bad winter. Native to CA, but not locally native to the SF area.

Then even within a particular ecoregion you have different habitats. Big-leaf maple is a CA native but it's a riparian tree, needs water and drainage. Plant it in the central valley or the desert and it's not gonna make it on its own. Up here in Washington it's a weed, grows anywhere and everywhere. Even the driest soils are wet enough for it. Down in CA you need a wetter soil for it to thrive. But not a wetland soil.

I would plant stuff in unamended soil usually, with drip irrigation for the first couple years or so, to get them established. Then depending on the species and the weather they ideally wouldn't need irrigation after that. Or fertilizer. But that's assuming you're choosing locally adapted native plants. Woodland plants would like mulching, but desert or alpine plants probably not. I don't believe I mulched chaparral plants, like the manzanitas and ceanothus. Chaparral soils tend to be dry and lean and that's what the plants native there need.

Rott: pepper trees are not native to CA. They're from South America, even though they're called CA Pepper Tree. And I'd be careful with Matillija poppy. they're a garden thug. Unbelievably aggressive rhizomes. I wouldn't give them any compost or fertilizer or water, that's for sure!

..
reg_pnw7 - Thanks for the notes on the Ca Pepper Tree and the Matillija Poppy.

I got some M Poppies from some people who'd like to get rid of theirs. I dug them out of a dry sandy hillside. I planted mine in a bed of clay with maybe some silt. So far all but one has died. The remaining one is just a shoot off of an otherwise dead stem. Doesn't get much sun or water.

I'm overdue to do some research on the M Poppy. I will do so before I try again.
..

Tropical wrote:

"the preferred mulch for ca natives is gorilla hair "

I'm shocked no one asked about this.

Gorilla hair? Really? Is there a large native population of California gorillas that I don't know about, who keep the native plants mulched?

Inquiring minds want to know. :-D

Mystery solved with a little Googling. Just never heard of it.

Kinda horrifying, actually. I don't think I'd buy it, being made of Redwoods. :-[