I purchased my GaT from Vintage and they classify this rose as a Bourbon. I am no expert in rose classifications, but I do tend to trust in Vintage Gardens. I love this rose. It is staying quite small, about 1.5 feet with one 2 foot cane so far. It is about 2.5 years old in my garden from a band. Vintage says it will stay on the smaller side. It blooms all the time. The blooms are a red/crimson though they can be quite dark at times. It has nice fragrance, though I have to squat down to get a sniff. It exhibits no disease in my no spray garden. I use this rose to sit in front and to the side of another climbing rose rather than putting in another accent shrub. I love this rose and highly recommend it.

Whatever you call it, it's a great rose here. The only problem I have is some burning in the PM sun. Mine has grown to over 5' but I keep it pruned to between 3 and 4. It's in full bloom right now and couldn't be lovelier.

I'm envious of anyone who grows this rose well, and I'm particularly envious of jbfoodie who does so in a no spray garden. I've tried GaT twice & failed pretty miserably both times. I could keep it relatively clean with regular spraying but if I let my spray schedule slip, GaT was always the very first to let me know about it. In my garden it was slow, spindly, & produced little bloom.

Jaxondel, you're probably correct in speculating that the confusion re this rose stems from its mixed heritage. The four roses that figure equally in its genetic makeup include a Bourbon (Sir Joseph Paxton), a Tea (Papa Gontier), a China (Gloire de Rosomanes) & a rose that, depending on the source, is either a China, a Noisette, or a Tea-Noisette (Fellenberg).

GaT does have a certain dubious distinction that I've filed away in my trove of useless information: When crossed with a Hybrid Wichurana, GaT became the seed parent of a once-blooming Modern Climber/Wichurana whose roots are EVERYWHERE -- the redoubtable Dr Huey! Does that tidbit make anyone want to rush to try it? No? Hmmm . . .

Sadly my experience was the same as windeaux's. The blooms were a very pretty crimson, but they blew fast and the shrub was lanky and quite prone to blackspot. I got mine grafted from Pickering, and had to SP it.

Reynolda Rose Garden in Winston-Salem, NC, has a beautiful one; it is about 4 feet tall and wide, and had lots of blooms the few times I visited there in August.

It is listed a China/bourbon hybrid in most books over here. I tend to think that it is more like a HP. It actually does well over here ... very hardy considering the possible China-ancestors. I wanted to grow it in a sheltered position. But It shot some long canes and I decided to train them against the wall. It turned into quite a nice low climber (And no It is not the CL. Gruss An Teplitz I got).Mostly I see it grown as 3-4 feet tall arching shrub-rose. But the south-east facing wall with little air-circulation does make the rose prone to mildew and it also get BS pretty bad. It is the first rose to bloom every year here and the rose looks pretty amazing in the first flush with the cupped cherry-red very fragrant flowers:

Better post a picture of the Rose:

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Living not that far from Windeaux, I can report that I grew GaT. DH wanted it for his lineage gardens.
The blooms were ok, but there are so many better red chinas for this ares. There are also better Bourbons, Teas and Fellemburg is a better rose here.
My problem was that the canes seemed to be fungus magnets and there were enough fungal problems on them to keep a plant pathologist busy for years. Even the new canes back when we sprayed fungicides religiously soon made speckled montages that made for unhealthy roses.

We shovel pruned that one. DH didn't want to, but he couldn't remember what it looked like healthy. And its neighbor roses are healthier with it gone.

I have a mystery rose which I was told is Madame Edmund LaPorte, but which looks like it could be GaT. It does look something like a Bourbon and something like a tea or China. It's wonderfully fragrant, blows fast, fries in the sun, and gets a little bs. It is not a big grower so far but does bloom a lot. Does this look like GaT?
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The color in this shot is a little truer...it's often closer to a true red.

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I wouldn't sp it. If GaT is such a polyglot I think it might be the rose I have.
Linda

Linda,
The problems with trying to indentify the olde ones are many. Colors vary with how far north of the equator you are, how hazy your sunlight is, and even how much sunlight hit the rose bloom as it opened. Add to that fertilizer and soil difference.
Sometimes there might be a distinctive leaf pattern, a growth habit, a tendency to ...say...put out sprays of three blooms.
Right now I've got a ?HP that does really well here. And I can't begin to describe the color of the blooms. Starting with "it's brighter than Paul Neyron and deeper than Madam Pierre Oger" isn't much and the trueness of any color pictures I might take would be really questionable. I will take a bloom over to Oakes Daylilies where they have the "official" color book. So I will be able to put a number on it. Sadly, the rose descriptions in literature don't go by the numbers.
Your best bet is to take a bloom and bud to a garden with a 'real' GaT and compare. (and the closer that garden is to your home, the better.

I totally agree with the eastcoast rose people..Gruss an Teplitz does NOT do well here. I moved mine to prime real estate to give it another chance, and, so far nothing. It's reminiscent of my experiences with the body bag HTs from Wally's World that I used to plant...

I'll move this rose to another place where it can die a slow death.

I'm glad to know it's not just me.

Robert

I love Gruss an Teplitz, the best among my 15 Geschwind roses, healthier than all the others. Quite healthy, in fact and I don't spray. Far from the first to bloom as for cupshaped but definitely the last rose of summer in my garden. I cannot imagine late autumn without it.

Marianne in Sweden (approx. USDA zone 6)

Agreed. A superb rose by a superlative breeder.

Best wishes,
Jon

Location, location, location.

The trend I'm reading is that this German rose does quite well in Europe, but doesn't like the American Southeast. In fact, I almost ordered it from RU, but Pat Henry told me "Oh, no, not in Richmond. Get Maggie instead." So I did.

I look at cup-shaped's picture and can't conceive of mine ever having had the potential to grow that well. Had mine had leaves that dense, the Black Spot would have made them a mess. And I'm not sure mine had the root strength to support that great a plant.
Could putting it on canina make that much of a difference?

Like Robert, I'm relieved to know that I'm not the only one who's been unsuccessful with 'Gruss an Teplitz'. My first attempt was with an ownroot, my second with a grafted plant. Performance was equally poor. Looking at Cupshaped's lovely photo, I'm astonished that a rose as robust as that is the same variety that languished so pathetically in my garden.

I'm intrigued with the idea of Ann's husband's lineage garden. I have a 'soft spot' for Hungary -- which, come to think of if, may be why I was so intent on growing GaT. There is fairly sound speculation that the found rose "Maggie" is closely related to GaT, & that it was actually produced by Rudolf Geschwind who (as Marianne mentions) hybridized GaT. The color of the two roses is very similar and, like GaT, "Maggie" can be grown as a bush or trained to climb. This has been an easy rose for me to grow -- blooms heavily, healthy foliage. Should one happen to be looking for a good rose that just may have a Hungarian connection, she is one to consider.

Speaking from a hazy memory and limited experience, I recall a number of articles written in the beginning of this century by American rose growers specifically in the mid-Atlantic region who think so highly of GaT as to almost set it into a category by itself. The incredibly high bloom count they gave for GaT was so much higher than the other roses they counted that it seemed it must be a typo.

I have a number of Geschwind roses in my garden, and have planted GaT this year from Palatine. I have the utmost confidence that it will thrive and when it doesn't I will replace it with Maggie, which i probably should have chosen in the first place.

Patrick

Patrick, There's strong evidence that over the decades "Maggie" has sometimes been confused with/sold as 'Gruss an Teplitz'. It's conceivable that the rose those mid-Atlantic growers were praising was actually "Maggie" (which does, in fact, produce an incredible number of blooms).

My GaT (in Northern California) produces tons of blooms just like my Maggie. Both roses perform well here in this climate. The main difference other than the short stature of my GaT compared to Maggie, who has been growing like gangbusters right out of the gate, is that Maggie has a tendency to develop a little PM while GaT does not. Go figure...

Linda your rose look like GAT to me. I got my GAT from an OGR nursery. The Rose is grafted on Rosa Canina rootstock Ann!

I can testify that GAT really is a rose that is hard to grow well, since it is so prone to fungal diseases. It gets PM and BS really bad in spite of spraying. But some years it has looked really great with hundreds of flowers. This year it got damaged by a hard late frost and already has BS really bad. I took this picture tonight:

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Many thanks for all the comments! I think I'll pass on this one for now. Maggie sounds like an interesting possibility though.

Aw, cupshaped, just as I was feeling sorry for your GaT, the picture finally loaded. Himmeldonnerwetter. If I were to show that picture to my roses and tell them that that is what late spring damage looks like in Denmark, every last one of my roses would demand passports and would be landing on your doorstep.

This is all very interesting. I live in Crescent City, in California. Lots of damp grey days by the ocean.

I ordered Gruss au Coburg from A Reverence for Roses in Florida (my first time ordering from them), and instead got Gruss au Teplitz.

In general I dislike magenta roses. I can't return the plant, per their policy and Florida rules. Sigh. 

Advice? Thanks in advance!

Thank you!

Teplitz is a clear red here. I would give the rose a try there.

Thanks for the information. Also, A Reverence for Roses has already called and is sending the rose I actually ordered 🙂

Could it be a difference between humid warm summers and dry warm summers? Maybe it needs it dry to save it from the fungal diseases.

Jackie

I have always been very happy with customer service from Reverance