One of the best buys I have seen in a semi-commercial mower is the John Deere at either Home Depot, Lowe's, or John Deere dealers. It's a ZTR with separate hydro pumps and wheel motors, a 23 hp engine (Briggs) and many other good featrues. It's $3995.

Well I will say just get one of the box store models, and I say that because it doesn't sound like you regulaly maintein them. If you don't change the oil regularly they will last about as long as a high end machine. 5-7 years is proabably an average lifespan on these things if the oil is never changed and the tractor abused. If you regularly change the oil and spend a little time with them they will last 10-20 years or more on a 3/4 acre lot. That bx1500 Kubota will die just as easily as a $1500 box store machine form lack of maintanance. Heck, I use to buy el chepo Murray's and abuse the heck out of them for 5 years or so then give them away and most went on to live another 5+ years. I didn't maintain my el cheapo MTD Yardman very well and had it 8 season and then gave it away to a friend and it is still going strong after another 3-4 seasons. The models you are looking at are better than what I had so I would imagine that with a little bit of care you will still have them going strong in 12-15 years.

Well, to be fair, must tractors have reminders on them. And the more i spend on something, the more likely I am to maintain them. My cars get regular oil changes at about 5000 miles. Please don't let my diatribe on the mowers change the recommendation on a good tractor. While mostly true, a lot of the description was for comedic value, and to show my appretiation for the benefits of spending a little more for a quality item that just plain runs no matter how you treat them. I see that a lot of tractors have the "no tools" oil change feature. While not an excuse, the reason the mower and blower get infrequent oil changes is because they were not designed for easy and "non messy" changes. My generator gets frequent oil changes because it's easy and clean. My mower does get it's blades sharpened every year, does that count for anything?

I guess what I am asking is an idea at what price range the tractors cross the line from trash to treasure. And since you guys have been dealing with tractors a lot longer than I have (about 2 days for me) A specific recommendation of a good value model is always appreciated.

Thanks again.

Let me share my approach to oil and filter changing to make it nearly "mess free". I use a "Vacuum Oil Change Pump" to draw the oil out of the sump by inserting the pump suction tube down the dipstick tube (or into the oil level check/fill hole on some equipment). There are quite a few of these self contained units on the market now. They are available in manual (hand operated) or 12 volt electric. There are some high end units that operate on 120 volt AC. They all feature a 2 to 3 gallon capacity (or more on some commercial grade units) container to receive the oil drawn out. The low end models start around $25.00 and go to about $50.00. If you Google or Yahoo (or whichever search engine you prefer) the phrase "Vacuum Oil Change Pump" you will be shown a number of links where you can see/buy. No drain plug to open, no catch pan to position, no oil running down the frame, no cleaning oil from the machine and floor afterward. Most of these pump kits will handle other fluids such as gear oil, coolant, ATF and such but they all pretty much warn against pumping flammable liquids. For the oil filter, I use a piece of sheet metal (such as aluminum flashing or gutter or whatever you have on hand) to fabricate a sort of "trough" or funnel to place under the filter to route the oil to a point above my catch bucket. I have used that method for a few years but am going to experiment with the idea of making an adapter fitting for use with the vacuum oil change pump to pull the oil out of the filter. My plan is to use put a tapered tip (kinda like the air fitting adapter used to inflate air mattresses)on the suction tube. I'll place a disposable shop towel under the filter. Then I figure I'll punch a small hole in the filter body at the lowest point (using a punch or awl). I'll position the tapered tip next to the punch (which is still in the filter). As I withdraw the punch I'll put the tapered adapter in the hole. Then, using my automatic center punch, I'll perforate the filter at the highest point on the filter (this will let air in so the oil can be drawn out through the lower hole). Then I'll open the inlet valve on the pump suction line and it should pull the oil (or most of it) out of the filter. I'm hoping the small amount of oil that remains in the filter can be handled by the disposable shop towel(s) I placed under the filter. I'll post something in a future thread under this subject when/if I get the thing going on. As to the pump for getting the oil out of the engine: It works great. Try to tilt the machine so the dipstick side of the engine is the on the low side of the tilt to get the oil to flow to where the pump suction tube opening will be. If your engine has an oil check/fill hole near the lower portion of the crankcase, DO NOT tilt the machine in that direction until AFTER you have already withdrawn as much oil as you can get with the machine sitting level. Just wanted to pass on some of what I have been doing and my plans for later.

I'd recommend getting the machine the person who has to cut the grass wants. An alternative to a low end rider is something like this (http://www.simplicitymfg.com/pacer.php) and Sears has one similar for under $1k on sale. If all you want to do is cut grass I think these commercial style walk behinds for a small lot homeowner make good sense.

Interesting point Soccer_dad. That suggestion has merit, though the ratings say the "dead mans" handles are hard to move and very tiring to hold on to. That might be an issue for kids and moms, but I will take a trip to Sears to check it out.

Thanks for the suggestion.

The best bang for your buck in a reliable lawn tractor IMO would be one of the lower priced Simplicity Regents - the 18/38 for $1800 after rebate , the 20/38 for $2100 after the $300 rebate . Or you may find a new leftover Regent from previous years for a discounted price . Just change the oil once a year and follow routine maintenance procedures and it should last 15-20 years easily mowing 3/4 acre .

Why do you make your wife mow the lawn?

With the luck you've had with Hondas, I wouldn't look anywhere else!

Honda makes riding mowers and just like in the past, the extra money you spend getting one will probably be rewarded many times over with a lasting machine that won't need replacing every few years

The 'box stores' don't make a lot of money selling you a single lawn mower . . . . but they know they'll have to opportunity to sell you one every few years, because they don't carry many 'lifetime' machines

Don

Hi Kubotabx2200,

Who said I MADE her cut the lawn. She used to LIKE doing it. It got her away from the kids for 90 minutes. But alas, now she has a job, and she won't have the time to do it like she used to.

Now, since my research tells me the old Honda is not worth fixing, we have to get something new that will do the job quicker than the 21' cut the Honda had. We were looking at a riding lawnmower, but the walk behind that Soccer_dad mentioned makes some sense.

Honda hasn't sold any riding mowers in the U.S. in 5 years , although they still make them and sell them in countries like the U.K. .They couldn't compete in the U.S. market because of their high price , expensive parts/service , and the mediocre cut quality of their decks .I had a 3813 for 15 years and while I loved it's tanklike build and smooth engine the cut doesn't even begin to compare to my Simplicity Broadmoor , which hasn't scalped my lawn once - unlike the Honda which was scalp city in comparison !

There are a few used Honda Harmony riding mowers on eBay from time to time - Two right now for less than $500

Don

Here is a link that might be useful: Honda Harmony

Two years ago I could've bought a new leftover Harmony lawn tractor for $1900 , but couldn't bring myself to like a plastic LT that was so small it looked like a toy even compared to the 3813 which was a much sturdier machine. The local Simplicity/Honda dealer also had a new in the crate liquid cooled Honda 4514/38" deck for 4K - bought a Broadmoor for $1000 less instead . With a bigger more comfortable seating position , fender or foot operated hydro , easy remove deck , much cheaper parts , and a better cut than the Honda it wasn't a hard choice to make and I haven't regretted it one bit since .

Just a note to Soccor_dad. We bought the Craftsman Commercial walk behind as you suggested. It was nice and shiny as it came off of the truck. The first 10 minutes or so were "harrowing" to say the least.

After about 10 minutes I started to get the hang of it. My wife HATED IT the first time she used it. The second time, she liked it better, but as the reviews said, the handles are stuff and require a bit of muscle. She did the lawn while I was at work, and loved the fact that the the job took half the time, 90 minutes down to 40 minutes, but those darn handles bruised her hand.

I suggested that she try gloves one time before we returned it, and that seemed to do the trick. Now she likes it, I like it, and it really was the perfect solution for us.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Neal