I think soil is like every other part of the environment. Conditions change.
Can't possibly be the same at the end of days of rain, as it is at the end of a protracted drought.

Jeri

Well, she's right...sort of. No matter what kind of organics you use, eventually, they are digested, used up and disappear. No matter what kind of nutrients you include at planting, they, too, are eventually used up. In most cases, the roses will live without any feeding. That's not to say they will remain productive, healthy and beautiful, but they will most likely live. I honestly have canned roses out back which haven't been fed with any kind of fertilizer I have put on them in over five years. They were elsewhere and all they received was water and any leaves off the trees that caught in the cans. They are "alive", but they aren't "pretty". They do grow, a bit, and they do flower, but not like what you want them to.

No matter what kind of organic material you use, unless there is no water and no bacterial action with any kind of heat, it WILL break down and seem to disappear. That's what Nature does to build soil, otherwise leaves and dead plant material would cover the earth. I'm sure you've seen roses sink into planting holes which were overly amended. Same thing. The compost got digested leaving much less bulk than they provided, so the area sank.

If the organics are digested and exhausted, and no other food is added, the roses are existing on their own. As I said, they will likely live, but, in most cases, they won't look like anything you want to share photos of. Kim

The question occurs to me that if compost is added continually as the old compost breaks down and mostly disappears, would this then be equal to the use of fertilizer? It was not made clear whether the compost was only applied once in the life of the rose or on a regular basis. I would suspect the latter if this lady had beautiful roses.

Ingrid

This rose garden is a community project and the majority of the roses have been planted this spring, so they are still baby roses. It sounded to me as if she was saying that she is hoping the roses become self sufficient. I know that they are adding leaves to the soil for the roses, but other than that, no fertilizer. I assume that when the leaves break down, that will give the roses some nutrition, but how often would you need to apply leaves?
I will be working in this garden on a weekly basis, so I will try to learn more about how this works.

Oh well. That's different!

I would also not feed newly-planted roses! They're fine for the present with what they have, and you really want them to grow ROOTS, rather than top-growth. Give them, for instance, high-nitrogen fertilizer too soon and you CAN kill the plants. (I know. I've done it.)

Once the young plants have passed their first bloom, and been deadheaded, THEN you can apply fertilizer-of-choice.

Jeri

Absolutely! Adding organic material of any kind is eventually, in most cases, providing some nutrients. If nothing else, the soil bacteria will rob nitrogen from the plants to begin digesting the leaves (if no other source of nitrogen is added), which will then provide some nitrogen and other nutrients to the plants. As the organics break down, Humic acid is released and that helps to release other minerals and nutrients locked up in the soil and rocks and make them available to the plants. Of course, you're limited to what is there available to BE released, so it's quite possible there may be deficiencies in the garden due to nutrients either not being there to be released or bound in compounds the Humic acid can't release.

The roses may well become "self sufficient", but they'll have much better results if they continue mulching with a decent type of organic mulch. Kim

Doesn't it matter what kind of rose we are talking about? I'm no expert, but I believe many antique and shrub roses don't need extra fertilizer if they have decent soil, enough sun, water and appropriate pruning.

Well yes, but, "decent soil" is made up of organic stuff. If you don't keep adding organic material to feed the good organisms so that they can poop out the even better stuff for your roses, you won't have "decent soil".

And, lest we forget compost IS fertilizer. It is food for the micro critters who eat it, poop it, aerate it, and give the roses what they need to thrive.

Susan

Also remember, Claferg is in Florida. A good bed of organics will burn away in a year here. Another factor is the yearly monsoons which drain nutrients right through our sandy soils and the porous limestone rock subsurface. Think sinkholes!

Veronica

I have two hardy once-blooming shrub roses that I haven't fertilized in probably ten years and that manage to make growth and bloom each year. However, they are in heavy soil and not Florida sand.

Falling leaves and such recycle nutrients within the plant's space. Eventually, though, you have to add nutrients to replace those you remove from the system when you prune and deadhead the plant.

Texas A&M says that a thick mulch containing both green plant matter and the less-nutritious dead leaves will provide ample nutrition for roses. For a long growing season they recommend applying a 3-inch layer of yard waste twice a year.

So if you apply compost or nutritious mulch regularly, you are in fact fertilizing.

In my old Newhall garden, I frequently put down inches of barnyard litter, mainly horse poop. COPIOUS water was used with it. Summer temps were frequently in the low to mid nineties for a good portion of the summer months, with spikes to the low hundreds. That garden "burned through" horse manure in a matter of a few months. I put it down as a mulch. I frequently watched two to three inches of manure become a thin layer of worm castings in three months. If there is enough heat, nitrogen (LOTS of horse pee in poop!), moisture and oxygen, "stuff" can digest away in very short order. More complex material, such as oak leaves, take much longer. It all depends upon the type of material and if the necessary resources and conditions are met. Kim

Well, I guess I will continue what I have been doing for my roses, and I will wait to see how the roses in the community garden do. I found out the name of the compost, it is called Azomite. Has anyone heard of this type of compost before? If so, could you tell me how it worked for you?

Here is a link that might be useful: Compost link

I have never heard of 'Azomite', but I think I do abt. as you do-- use a lot of organics... Milorganite, Black Kow, Black Hen, Alfalfa pellets, Fish Emulsion, Epsom Salt, Blood Meal, Bone Meal, in fact this morning I just emptied a 50 lb. bag plus another half-bag of Alfalfa pellets onto my roses,...pine pellets..... and every leaf and small twig and citrus-tree drops in the yard I can get my rake on.. and it just seems to 'disappear' in no time... and when I poke around in the rose-beds it is earthworms galore..... to my way of thinking when one says 'fertilizer' my mind goes to bags of granular stuff, and not to bags of 'stinky stuff'..... I never use granular it only burns the roses and can even kill a bush.......sally

So, the Azomite(R) at that link has compost as an ingredient, but has other added ingredients, including "Liquid Potassium Silicate (Stimp-up)". I wouldn't call this "compost", IMHO, it is fertilizer.

Compost is what is being created in the two bins I have in the backyard, full of yard waste, food scraps, leaves, and paper. No other added stuff besides what is in the enrivonment and what the Soil Food Web brings in.

For some time now when I deadhead, prune or even empty the vases in the house of blown roses I've been putting all that under the roses and other plants. I've noticed that some of the companion plants that were underperforming a bit started to really perk up and, even though the spring flush is officially over, I still have so many roses blooming well. It does seem that organic matter, no matter where it comes from, makes for happier plants. I water quite often, and think that has a lot to do with making the nutrients from this rose litter available to the plants. Still, I do fertilize with alfalfa for that double dose of goodness.

Ingrid

Since it is so hot in my area..Kansas should I forget about fertilizing my roses for the last time We will be having another week of high temps. I heard when its this hot not to fertilize them

In Florida, I doubt that the leaves will be enough to keep them healthy. I use organic and chemical fertilizer. Please don't stone me :0 I just don't have the money or physical strength to dump the required amounts of organic matter on my plants. I am a good girl with the fungicides and insecticides though.

Well I have some alfalfa tea brewing to which I will be adding some epsom salts and everyone will be getting a little summer pick me up. I also have a compost pile cooking out back with leaves, grass clippings and household scraps, and I'm sure the roses will appreciate all that additional organic material added to the mix. If all this doesn't make them happy, then I may have to resort to using an organic fertilizer.

My beds are completely organic, and the soil looks nice and dark, dark brown, but it's still sand, and the organic feedings are disappearing SOMEwhere. Either into the plants or down the sand into the aquifer - or both, because my roses can get pretty pale after about a month and a half. The last two feedings I have used alfalfa generously, and the roses have responded each time with growth and blooms. I don't think plain compost is going to feed them. They may stay alive, but IMHO they won't thrive and look good. Like diane_nj said, it looks like she's feeding them with that Azomite(R) stuff not just composting in the normal sense of the word.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...