Here's a link to the EXTOXNET site on mancozeb, I find this site very useful in checking on pesticides.

Here is a link that might be useful: EXTOXNET mancozeb

Neurological problems, including neural tube defects, are what I've read about.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs151.html

Also impact on reproductive hormones in women:
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/163/8/731#TBL1

Most of the effects are in people exposed in the manufacture of the product or use it in agriculture. You can browse the site.
http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/r?dbs+hsdb:@term+@rn+8018-01-7

You can be exposed by breathing it, by having it on your clothes and on your skin. We also have background exposure in food treated with fungicides.

Here is a link that might be useful: National Inst. of Health search on mancozeb and occupational health

Not a real danger according to the link below, unless you're planning on drinking or eating a lot of it for a number of months, and even then cancer is not the most pressing problem you'll encounter.

Mancozeb looks reasonably safe.

Here is a link that might be useful: Oregon State U regarding mancozeb

Sammy, there is no evidence that mancozeb kills the fungus (except during the process of germination). It's more likely that Banner kills or checks the established fungus-- Mike Rivers thinks it does.

What Rosemania says about mancozeb is untrue, or at least it is not claimed by the manufacturer or supported by any scientific evidence that I've heard of.

One thing about chemical exposure, with the surface acting fungicides mancozeb and Daconil, the dried film on the leaves is still the active chemical, so when we handle foliage. we are handling the chemical.

Michael, Rosemania told me to search for my own answers before I decide. They said that most sources say that the Mancozeb itself is not the carcinogen, but the product that is remaining after it is sprayed is the carcinogen. They say it is especially dangerous in rats if eaten. he said there is not much information on the effects on gardeners who protect themselves when they spray.

What does Mike Rivers say?
Are you reading, Mike Rivers?

I also thought that ony Manc. killed and Banner protected.

Rosemania doesn't like Wilt Pruf either, but wanted to know what I thought after I used it for a few years.

Sammy

"I also thought that ony Manc. killed and Banner protected."

That's what I meant Rosemania is wrong about. Banner is both protective and (perhaps) curative. Mancozeb protects against successful germination-- it kills the fungus in the act of germinating when a root-like organ comes out of the spore and starts to penetrate the leaf. Banner and Bayer kill at this stage but also later. There is no evidence that mancozeb kills inactive spores or established fungus.

It's hard to say whether using certain garden chemicals entails a significant risk or not. I'm not in a position to make that call. But a point I was making in the previous posts is that those who use synthetic chemicals should wash their hands carefully after handling foliage, esp. with powdery solids like mancozeb, Sevin, and Daconil. You probably get more exposure that way than from careful spraying.

Michael, that's a good point.

If you're using chemicals, the worst exposure to them may be had when mixing chemicals and filling sprayers. People forget to wear a respirator during that process -- and that's when they're dealing with concentrate!
Also -- not only wash hands. You should also be using chemical gloves to handle these materials.
If you should spill ANY of it on your clothing, STOP what you are doing. Remove the contaminated clothes. Put them directly into the washer for the first of two launderings. Then go take a shower. Do NOT leave materials on your skin while you spray.
And remember that any time you can smell the chemical, you are breathing it.
Lung damage anyone?

Jeri

michaelg: my experience with Banner Max is that it will stop a BS outbreak if used at the ratio of 1 teaspoon per gallon vs the normal 1/8 teaspoon. Now where I got this information, I no longer know. I have it recorded on my spray card that I've had for at least 5 years. Its in a different color ink, so it was added after the original card was made.

I think at that ratio the downside is that it really slows growth. That's my personal experience.

Jody, I observed dwarfing as a result of spraying the Fertilome version at the labeled concentration. I sprayed one side only of a couple of plants heavily, and the one with matte foliage was dwarfed on the propiconazole side compared to the control side.

I also have heard that too much Banner Max will stunt the growth of the roses. So, is there a Bayer product that would be superior to Banner and Mancozeb?

The idea of a drench is a turn off to me because years ago there was an Ortho drench, and I smelled that "pesticide" for at least a month. The purpose of it was to be absorbed into the rose. That meant to me that the roses were always contaminated.

Do you just use Banner alone?

Sammy

Mike Rivers uses Banner (actually Infuse) alone, and he sprays lightly, 1/2 gal for 50 roses every two weeks, as I recall. Probably his disese pressure is comparable to Sammy's. Many people here are using Bayer alone at 1-3 week intervals.

I use 8 gallons for almost 300. I cannot imagine 1/2 gallon for 50. That would be 1 - 3 gallon tank for 300 roses. Oh, if only I could do that! One of the worst things about spraying is to stop, and fill the tank again.

I think I will try Banner with no Mancozeb.

I appreciate all of the responses here. I think one of the most important protective devices that I use are big rubber boots. Even though my husband can help with the tank when it is real full, those big boots help to stabilize me, and take away the fear that I may contaminate myself by accidentally dropping the wand.

Sammy

Which Bayer compound are you referring to? I'm relatively new to the rose game - roughly 10 years of growing experience. Still using and rotating Compass and Banner Max for BS. I'm new to the Antique Rose Forum. Are there any serious hazards with Compass? I'm a chemist by trade but have never read the MSDS on my spray chemicals - maybe I should.

Must be prohibited for sale in NY since Rosemania won't ship here. I always smuggle it in from out of state, since it's one fungicide that works on contact to kill and eliminate bs spores. I think Funginex may be more dangerous since it contains something that can cause irreversible eye damage.

Try purchasing at Primary Products.

ncroseman,

Bayer Advanced Garden Disease Control for Roses, Flowers and Shrubs. Spray concentrate with only tebuconazole. I don't know whether it's any improvement over propiconazole or not, but there's a scientific finding that it kills existing blackspot. It may be less of a growth inhibitor, since the label allows weekly spraying. Since many exhibitors use Banner, it must not shorten stems on HTs when used as labeled. The rose I observed the effect on was the polyantha Marie Pavie.

I haven't checked lately on hazards of Compass, but early on it was described as safer than most.

I hate to revive my own thread, but it is better than starting a new one.

What about Bayer? Michael, you say you can use it every week, but some people go 1-3 weeks? Are there other products that are as good as Banner?

I think I am going to avoid the Mancozeb.
Something burned my roses, and I am not sure what it was. Maybe Conserve SC or Indicate 5.

Sammy

As I recall, Pete sprays Bayer weekly, Harry every 3 weeks. Banner and Bayer seem to be the state-of-the-art products. There was one more effective, Sentinel (cyproconazole) that was withdrawn from the home market as a cancer risk. (However, it's still used on coffee plants, I think.)