A blind spot for most companies is the tendency toward NIH (not invented here) Syndrome.

I too compared the Entry level JD 225 to the Troy built setting right beside it. The Troy built/CC would be a better choice for 1000 dollars Less IMO. Once you get pass the green paint and look at the front ends, engines, and same dirves the Troy built CC offers more for less. IMO for $4000 the 425 don't offer much more. Which IMO would lead me to a Z-Max, lexmark, or any other of the quality ZTR's for machines just alittle higher than the 425.

But, this has nothing to do with JD Repuation, repuation alone sells most of there products.

Among other things, John Deere has excellent "Branding". Good branding is when someone sees your logo, colors, or whatever and immediately recognizes your comapny. In addition, when the brand is recognized, people have a good overall feeling about the products associated with the brand. McDonald's did this years ago with their Golden Arches, Happy Meals, and Ronald McDonald. Donald Trump is trying to do the same thing with his name and real estate.

Good branding is important to companies because their products can command higher prices and market share if they have it. People will buy a good brand and pay a premium for it provided that they haven't been personally disappointed with an earlier purchase. The great thing about good branding is that the product doesn't need to be better than the competition. As long as it is equal or nearly as good, the well branded product will win the sale and also command a higher price.

I think that it is indisputable that John Deere is the current leader in LT, GT, and Farm Equipment Branding.

-Deerslayer

Don't get too high over those CC residential ZTRs. A CC dealer told me they are made to last through the warranty period and not much more.

Ugly?I have yet to see a Z turn that is not ugly.Sort of plane looking is a better way of describing any and all brands.

There just not something you can admire there good looks of.You have no hood to want to keep waxed or fenders.They just do not jump out at you.

Sort of like putting makeup on a ugly women.Sure you can do it.But whats the use.

A CC dealer told me they are made to last through the warranty period and not much more.

So the Green paint makes the engine (which is usually a cheaper version for more), drive axles last longer (Which are the same). I like how some body behind the counter says and it's like one of the 10 commandments. Maybe the dealer has bozo mechanic's and can't fix S%%% let along troubleshoot a problem, sometimes they are part of the problem.

As a matter of fact, it was the general manager of a respected and successful dealership that told me that. I'm not saying the JD 225 is any better - I don't know anything about it. Whether he is correct or not, I don't know. I'm just telling what he said. You may know more than he does. If so, please enlighten us with the facts.

By all accounts (just what I've read), the 225 IS junk but the 425 and 445 are pretty good for their price range. The 425 and 445 use separate pumps and wheel motors, not the integrated units that the 225 and residential CC models use.

None of them can compare to the commercial units like Scag and Exmark and Walker produce, but that's like comparing a box store lawn tractor to a high end one.

For you information the CC RZT ENTRY level ZTR has Separate rear wheel drive pumps (transmission assy. L/H P/N 618-04164, Transmission assy. R/H, 618-04163)(did you look under the machine or are you going by work of mouth? Look like the same of the 425, Next time I will get the part numbers of the 225 and the 425. As for the dealer the Manager is in the business to make money. He don't make much on low end products, but the outrageously priced one he does. SO what do you think he's going to say? Why is he successful? MAKING MONEY and he does that on the LT buyers with no clue who can't service there own equipment.

A blind spot for most companies is the tendency toward NIH (not invented here) Syndrome.

Ok, rcmoser, so you're saying the entry level residential CC ZTRs are as good as their commercial models and should last as long? That's good to know. A guy sure could save some money that way. I guess the old expression "there's no such thing as a free lunch" isn't true when it comes to CC ZTRs.

Buy an MTD,they are built to last,I know I own a 41 year old mtd tractor.It might only have 8 horses under the hood,yes it does have a hood,metal not PLASTIC,but it will out pull my brothers 18 horse JD LOL....this mtd weighs in at 1100 lbs,not 5 or 600 lbs like JOHN DEERES.

Well Hoss, that's true, as far as it goes. I have a 1969 JD 112 'garden' tractor, serial number 150918, with a 10 horse Kohler. I think it weighs in at least 1100 lbs also.
Problem is, if you adjust the original cost of that 112 for inflation you could buy a lot more Deere than an LA 120 'lawn' tractor. I'm not sure you can even buy a equivalent MTD anymore. Times they been a changing. ;)

On the CC RZT-50, a little searching of forums revealed the following regarding hydro transmissions/pumps:

Hydro Gear makes 3 versions of the integrated hydro unit, i.e., there is a combined pump amd motor unit at each of the rear drive wheels (of course, to allow the zero turn capability):

EZT, with 3/4" axles
IZT, with 1" axles
IZT with charge pump

The CC RZT-50 has the EZT integrated units at each wheel. The JD EZ-Trak 225, which is the lower end model of this series, also has the EZT transaxle motors. The JD 425 and 445 models have separate wheel motors and one pump, as do their commercial units. The pump is a Kanzaki DUP-10 and the wheel motors are Parker TE0195's, same on both the 425 and 445 models. Most other ZTR mfrs. of higher end commercial equipment have separate wheel motors with their own separate pump (i.e., two pumps). Hope this helps, a little.

Bill

"The great thing about good branding is that the product doesn't need to be better than the competition. As long as it is equal or nearly as good, the well branded product will win the sale and also command a higher price."

Brands don't build equity unless they are indeed better then the competition in some measurable way. "Better" can be the product itself, service associated with the product, value retention, etc. JD earned its reputation by building good products, which translates overtime to brand equity. Good mfg's guard that equity because it has a direct value. Sometimes a Mfg will trade some of that equity to expand their market share. JD did this with the line of tractors they sell to the big box stores. I'm sure their objective is to have the the best tractor in the box store, relative to the competition in that store... "best" being a combination of the product and JD service. There's a fine line here ... the product has to be priced competitively, so its components and materials are going to be comparable to other "high end" tractors at HD, Lowes and Sears. Less tangible are JD quality control (at mfg), engineering, and service. Brand equity.

Being successful at this is another matter. It's a gamble to the extent that competiton in this market may make a better mouse trap, or be able to sell theirs for less. I'm sure JD has an acceptable level of risk to their brand equity that they are willing to take to be in the big box store. It's too big a market for them to not be in.

>> Ugly?I have yet to see a Z turn that is not ugly.

Yep. They all remind me of something you see on a Tilt-A-Whirl

I knew (not in the Biblical sense) quite a few girls back in high school and college that had "reputations" and let me tell you, they were all earned. If John Deere has a reputation of building great tractors and backing them up with great service, then so be it, I am sure it is earned. Now if being pretty sells ZTR's and JD builds ugly ones, I am sure the market will let them know and they will adjust accordingly. They didn't get where they are by not listening to their customers/the market.

"They all remind me of something you see on a Tilt-A-Whirl"

They remind me of a guy riding around on a magic carpet, or someone on some kind of an open Star Wars vehicle about to let loose with the death laser on some unsuspecting guy on a lawn tractor. OK, so I have a vivid imagination. Then I look over at the other guy across the street putzing around the lawn on his yard tractor, and it's back to Henry Ford and the 9N. But don't get me wrong, I still like garden tractors, and they can do work (other than mowing) that the ZTR can only dream about:o)