One more from another angle...

Hi again Lena...you now have the collecting bug for sure! They look promising already, i hope they do well for you. I have no experience of growing Socos, but I hope someone will come in who is growing them. I'm not aware that they will need any special treatment though...again I may be wrong.
If you Google 'Socotra Island flora' and go to' images', it gives you an insight into the amazing DR's and other weird flora of the island. Can't get it to link for some reason.
Gill UK

Lena,
Those are wonderful. You should be excited! I have some seedlings growing (about 7-8 wks. old) and I understand that they are very slow to grow.
Looks like you are way ahead of me.
Congrats,
Rick

Good luck with your socotranums!
i have three that i grew from seed, they are going to be a year old soon, but they are teeny tiny. the problem is my stupid cat knocked them over when they were about two months old, and as all baby adeniums they are VERY sensitive to drying out when young. well mine were on the floor for a few hours until i came home :(
they did survive, and they are growing, but that event slowed them down even more, they have only now begun to pick up.
they can grow faster than mine, i've seen in other people's attempts, so yours should recover faster from the transport shock and continue growing. just keep them warm, they hate cold more than obesums or even somalenses in my experience.

Lena, those are two beauties. They are nice and chunky already. I am growing two that I bought as older plants and they are slower growing than the other species, but they do put on a nice flush of leaves every year. I don't do anything different with them than I do with my other Adeniums.
What is really interesting about them is the pattern they develope on the stems from scars left by the leaves after they fall.

Gill, I got the bug for sure but I also have place constraints, unfortunately. But then again, who doesn't, and there's always a little space to shelter another couple of seedlings. Considering how small my adeniums are, they occupy top-notch spots on my windowsills, and that's even not at the expense of my other plants!
Those "extraterrestrial" Adenium images from Socotra was what got me hooked on them in the first place! I'm hoping one day to be able to go see all this beauty with my own eyes there...
When I was looking to buy socotranums, I stumbled across a UK site selling Adeniums - Plumeria2u - do you know anything about them? Any first-hand experience? They sell socos, but at the moment both plants and seeds are sold out. They also have very interesting dwarf Thai soco varietes there.
Lena

Rick,
how would you compare soco's germination rates with obesums/hybrids?
You know, looking at the forum members' pics of their arabicum and obesum seedlings and comparing that to my 4-year-old socos (i'm sure the age is accurate in this case as they came from a reliable source), I realize what a long way lies ahead of me and my 2 socos... But, then, it's also about traveling, not just arriving, right?...
Lena

Teyo,
thanks for reminding me to keep my little socos warm at all times - being originally an avid cacti grower I have this inclination to keep all my other plants cooler and drier over the winter than is actually necessary and good for the plants... I'll keep your comment in mind! My soco and obesum seedlings are all in the warmest and sunniest place on the sill.
You know, just one question that keeps nagging me - you say it's particularly dangerous to let socos dry out. Does this apply only to young plants or goes for adult plants too? After all, they have their caudexes where they are supposed to store water to see them through dry spells? If there's constant supply of water, what would be their motivation to grow their caudex?
Here's what I found in wikipedia:
The climate of Socotra is a tropical desert climate and semi-desert climate with a mean annual temperature over 25 ðC (78 ðF). Yearly rainfall is light, but is fairly spread throughout the year. Generally the higher inland areas receive more rain than the coastal lowlands.
Lena

Pachypode,
now that you have pointed it out, I do see the beginnings of the "scar pattern" on the stems of my seedlings too - very interesting! Do you have any idea how many new "scars" your socos add over a growing season? Do your socos grow consistently throughout the year or do they slow down/ pick up pace at particular times?
Lena

Funnily, I have just mentioned Plumeria2u in one of my posts in this thread and went on to read the forum - and there it was - a whole thread about this seller... Glad I held back and decided to wait before ordering from them...

Lena, the drying out thing goes for young plants. The smaller they are the more sensitive they are to drying out. In my experience, when they are small all it takes is for them to dry out once to then need half a year to start decent growth rate again. It is entirely different for adult plants, they can easily survive months without water. I believe that people using advice meant for older plants (dry them out before watering, don't water after repotting and similar) and applying to tiny seedlings is one the bigger reasons why adeniums were labeled as slow growing. You've seen my seedlings, i pay great attention to keeping constant moisture when they are small, especially since i use a very coarse mix. When i repot my seedlings, all those younger than a year are placed in a bowl with water inbetween uprooting and potting into a new pot. Feeder roots start dying off after 5 minutes of air exposure, consider how little of those a small seedling has and it's not hard to see why it might be a big stress to them.

Teyo,
my , my, your post is an eye-opener - now it all makes sense... I didn't realize letting seedlings dry out might have such dire consequences - I was certainly bound to make that mistake - thanks so much for warning me before I did any damage to my plants!
Your seedlings are the best proof you are absolutely right.
Do you have any idea how fast a seedling/plant can grow new feeder roots? I'm sure mine lost theirs as they were exposed to the air much longer than 5 min...
Lena

It depends on the size of the plant. If it has developed a caudex (a real woody one), then it can be quite fast. If it has a few thicker roots (one reason why i don't ever cut the primary root as some people do) then it may regrow feeder roots faster too. Consider that root hairs exist in a pretty small zone right below the intensely growing tip of a new root, and die off as the root grows. A larger plant can put out many more growing tips at once, while a tiny seedling will put out two or three, and expend a lot of energy to do that. The problem wouldn't be so bad if adeniums weren't so darn prone to infections during that time.

Lena, think I'll tag along with you on that trip to Socotra Island, looks amazing eh?
Yes, with regards to PlumeriaUK, I see you have spotted that thread as some have had bad experiences with them. I have ordered DR seeds from a UK site, but for the life of me I can't find out which one it was...I will get back to you asap. I had no probs with my order, but it was a while ago.
Gill UK

Lena, it was the UK seller called adeniumstore.com I had two lots of seeds from them, no probs with transactions and had good germination...it was in looking after them where I failed! Mr Ko has a good reputation, he sells on ebay or direct I believe.
Failing that....Socotra here we come!!
Gill UK

lena, my A. socotranums put on a bunch of leaves and then slow down every year. I never noticed how many new scars are formed, but I think every single leaf adds to the pattern, so I am assuming one can count how many leaves the plant produces each year and that would correspond to the amount of scars added annually (although I could be wrong.)

By the way, anyone interested in A. socotranum might want to check out the beautiful twin trunk specimen that sold on Out Of Africa Plants.

That's exactly right, each leaf forms a scar on the trunk when it falls, and each attached leaf or scar has the potential to form a branch.
Gill UK

""beautiful twin trunk specimen that sold on Out Of Africa Plants.""
It IS beautiful, so is the price, lol. It is sold. Did you buy it, Lena?

Be prepared....be very prepared.

Gill,
thanks for the info - I checked out the site - very interesting! Think, I might buy something from them towards spring!
Have been feasting my eyes on these pictures and enjoying Socotra vicariously...
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=adenium%20socotra
It must be a very special place, full of character and authenticity...
Lena

Pachypode, judging by the number of scars and my plants' age (4 years) they don't add that many leaves/scars in a year.
BTW, my seedlings are plump and relatively squat at the moment. All the pics of older young socotranums I've seen show plants with a rather thin elongated stem - does it happen to all of them with age? Do they start filling out into this fatty bottle shape only at a very advanced age?
Lena

Otis, I only now got to see that twin-stem beauty Pachypode mentioned here... I wish it was me who bought it - it must be worth that price... Any idea how old this plant was? I can' seem to open the info on it...
Lena

This post was edited by parodise on Sat, Nov 9, 13 at 7:18

Tolip,
"Be ready!" - "Always ready!"
Is it you in the picture?!
Lena

Ah no that's a borrowed picture. Hope they mind. But yes these plants can get real big. Let's hope you can hug yours in due time. LOL.

Tolip,
I rather hope I'll live long enough not to be able to lock my arms around my adeniums any more - not for the frailty of my body but rather due to their corpulent physique!:)
Lena

lena, they don't produce as many leaves per year as A. orbicularis (or other species) because of their slower growth rate. I tend to cut the growing tips of my Adeniums when they reach the height that I want branching to begin. Both of the tops of my A. socotranum have been cut. Because they branch at the cut site, they'll now have several growing points and will produce more leaves, but still not very many in comparison to the other Adenium species..
To my understanding, only very old A. socotranum have fat trunks all the way up to the branches. Young plants develop a caudex and then add mostly height in their growth (although there is some slow thickening of the caudex also) which makes them look rather elongated as they get older.

Close up of multiple growing points on my A. socotranum

Pachypode,
thanks for that info! Your soco is branching nicely - how many branches has it put out so far - 4-5 - can't really make it out in the pic. At what height and age - ballpark - did you "behead" your socos?
After you have cut the top, will the caudex remain the height it was at the time of cutting and just fatten up from then on, or will it continue growing upwards?
Lena

I wonder if Rick is going to pinch any of his socos? Are you, Rick? You have quite a brood of them!

Lena,
I don't think so. I am hoping they keep growing in this fashion. Looking similar to those of Mike's so far and the new leaves are coming almost a bronze/burgundy in color.
Rick

Lena, sorry for the delay in responding and thanks for your comments.

I count four growing points on that A. socotranum. Your question about the caudex continuing to grow upwards after cutting the tops is an interesting one. I believe that It may get a bit taller (or not) but only because it will be fattening up as it ages, not because it is growing in that direction. I am only talking from my own experience, so if anyone knows that I am wrong please let us know. I have an Adenium somalense that I pruned years ago that has added height only above the cut point. The caudex has remained the same height below where I cut it. However, the roots below have gotten larger and thicker, which has raised the plant higher everytime I repot it.

This post was edited by pachypode on Sat, Nov 16, 13 at 10:59

Aha, that's really interesting what you have observed about caudex and something to bear in mind when choosing the right time for pinching. All the older socos in cultivation i have seen so far become rather elongated over time. If one were to prune/pinch the growth tip of the plant at a much more advanced age, would that mean the plant would develop a much taller caudex it would be able to fatten up impressively with age??
Another question that sprang to mind is, whether the new growth after pinching/pruning develops faster/much faster/ at the same pace as the main solitary stem before pinching?

A little update on my socos. It has been cold, dark and dreary here and the socos might have gone into dormancy: the larger one has dried all its leaves, the smaller is still sporting a couple. The caudexes are nice and plump, I water the plants once every 8-10 days, the room is warm during the day and cool at night. I'd like to ask more experienced growers if my plants are ok and if it's normal. The plants are 4 years old.
Thanks.
Lena

Just for the sake of comparison - here's a pic of my 4 obesum seedlings (age unidentified) that I received and potted up at roughly the same time as the socos. Tehy have been growing in the same conditions: same windowsill, same amount of water, same soil.

Lena,
The Soco's look so neat. Love the shape.
Your Obesum's look very healthy and nice compact shape. If you give them as much light as possible, they should be fine. May not get as much sunshine, but should manage. I give any of my seedlings started within the last month supplemental light (T5's), but not anything older.
Rick

Rick,
would you say my socos are dormant or simply stressed out after a week in the mail and adjusting to the new conditions? I potted them about a month ago.

Lena,
Definitely the shipping would cause some stress. I would treat them as Dormant with minimal watering. Leaf loss would be normal from stress and transit.
Just check caudex and make sure it stays firm.
When you water, do it around the root zone.
May stay leafless until spring.
Rick

Thanks for putting my mind at ease! I will water them even less and, as you suggest, strictly around the root zone. The caudexes have caused no concern so far. I'm glad they have gone dormant as we have almost no sun these days.

After 9 months, I'm ready to post a little update on my two socotranums.
They put out nice new leaves in the spring, didn't grow much, though. Then, in July, I went away on a long vacation and asked my friends to look after all the plants. Sure enough, when I got back I could see right away the socotranums had been hit hardest during my abscence - that is badly overwatered. They were in full sun in soggy soil. When I pulled them out of the pots, their caudexes were yellowish, but luckily, still firm, the tap root was intact, even though all the secodary roots rotted away.
I repotted both into fresh very porous soil and left them alone for two weeks. Then started watering carefully and very moderately around the base of the plant without flushing the whole pot.
To my great relief and joy, I noticed the first leaves appearing on both plants today - they pulled through!
In the picture, both plants the day after I repotted them - not a happy sight by any means. Things have been looking up from there!

Nice to see your Soco's, Parodise.
Mine where in leaf until beginning of July and have sat with no leaves and seem now to be starting to flush out more leaves. Maybe in some type of obligate dormancy?
Rick