My Wheel Horse manual doesn't list the alignment adjustment either. I've found that about 1/8" toe-in works good.

With toe-in, the wheels try to move outward when rolling. As a result, toe-in takes slack out of the front end which is designed to operate under tension. With toe-out, the front end has slack and the wheels move in and out randomly causing the tractor to wander.

-Deerslayer

I was thinking that the 1/8th" ought to probably work.

About 1/16" to 1/8" toe-in should be satisfactory. The IMPORTANT detail to adhere to is: When you are adjusting toe, ALWAYS DRIVE THE VEHICLE STRAIGHT FORWARD for at least 10 feet before parking it in the spot where you will be working on the vehicle. This is to allow the "slack or slop" to be taken out of the steering tie rod linkage components. On very light vehicles, you can accomplish the same by manually spreading the tire open at the front with hands and feet (or whatever works for you). You just have to be sure to measure and adjust toe with the wheels "tensed" in the direction that they will assume naturally when driving the vehicle in it's forward direction.
Here is a link that will explain toe (and other geometry of the Ackerman Steering Principle). There are literally hundreds of web sites that have something to say on this subject.

Here is a link that might be useful: an example explanation of steering

Mownie: That was a very good web page you sent about toe-in, toe-out, caster and camber! I've been associated with automobiles most of my working life, and had a general knowlege of steering geometry, but never had it explained in such a complete way!
Thanks: Rusty Jones

Thanks rustyj, and I hope you are fitter than a fiddle, and having a great day, Sir.

I'm surprised no one commented about the r-4 tires or frt fenders. I align the frt end on my buddy's and my own racecar, they stay straight at 130mph, got my own caster- camber gauge and toe-in bar, just wasn't sure if the JD called for the same specs as my ole Masseys. I noticed that I had to correct the steering wheel a lot more on the JD than I have to on my 35 yr old Massey when mowing, and from the drivers seat I thought the frt end on the JD was toed out instead of in which would account for the wandering around, haveing to keep correcting the steering wheel. I'll get that taken care of this weekend.

Deerslayer is spot on with this one. Mownie ha a good idea also as we always "shake" a car down prior to placing it the lift.

Have a great one!

I agree that toe-in takes slack out, but it's because both wheels are trying to move in, toward each other. With toe-out they are trying to move out, away from each other.

Ted

Toe-in or toe-out will both result in "taking up the slack" in the steering linkage. Whether the "taking up of slack" places the linkage into "tension or compression" depends on whether it is toed-in or toed-out AND whether the linkage is situated IN FRONT OF or BEHIND the steering axle. If the OEM places the linkage in front of the axle, TOE-OUT will place the linkage in TENSION, & TOE-IN will place it in COMPRESSION. If the OEM places the linkage behind the steering axle(most common), TOE-OUT will place the linkage in COMPRESSION, TOE-IN will place the linkage in TENSION. Whether in tension or compression, the slack is still taken up. Toe-in or toe-out both result in "tire scuffing" and if it where not for the very forgiving surfaces we operate our LT's & GT's on (grass, snow, dirt) the steer tires would not last nearly as long as they do. The scuffing force is expended into the ground surface on turf, dirt, or snow/ice. If you operated all the time on paved surfaces the scuffing forces would be expended on the tire tread and erase the tires quickly.

""tension or compression" depends on whether it is toed-in or toed-out AND whether the linkage is situated IN FRONT OF or BEHIND the steering axle"

I agree.

"If the OEM places the linkage in front of the axle, TOE-OUT will place the linkage in TENSION, & TOE-IN will place it in COMPRESSION."

I think you have that reversed. Wheels with toe-in try to run parallel when rolling. Normally, there is enough slack in the steering system to compensate for the toe-in so the wheels actually run parallel when underway. Since wheels with toe-in try to move outward, they place linkage located in front of the front axle under tension. I believe that the JD445 has linkage in front of the axle. Remember that we're talking about a JD445 in this thread.

"If you operated all the time on paved surfaces the scuffing forces would be expended on the tire tread and erase the tires quickly.'

That doesn't happen with my road vehicles that have static toe-in. Why should it happen to my tractor?

As I said above, properly aligned wheels run parallel when rolling. If they are misaligned (for example, improper toe-in) and therefore do not run parallel, I agree that premature tread wear will occur.

I think this thread got much more complicated than it needed to be! 8^)

-Deerslayer

deerslayer, I should have just made the statement:"Whether the "taking up of slack" places the linkage into "tension or compression" depends on whether the linkage is situated IN FRONT OF or BEHIND the steering axle." The original statement I made (in my previous post) could only be true in steering geometry with "zero caster" and "zero camber". It is the combination of caster and rolling resistance that causes the wheels to "spread apart" (toe out) in relation to the direction the vehicle is traveling. I completely overlooked that set of facts in my former discourse. Sorry to all members & kudos to deerslayer for recognizing my faux pas. In regard to the part:"The scuffing force is expended into the ground surface on turf, dirt, or snow/ice. If you operated all the time on paved surfaces the scuffing forces would be expended on the tire tread and erase the tires quickly.", I stand firm on that because the "toe-in setting" does not change to zero when moving (from a static setting of 1/8"). IF you take out all the slack from the steering components (as you are supposed to) in the proper direction (consistent with the normal direction of travel) and set the toe-in at 1/8", you will still have 1/8" toe-in when the vehicle is rolling. The toe-in only "maintains a preload" on the steering linkage to keep the slack taken up and give a "firm and solid" feel. If you DO NOT take up all the slack in the components (properly) before setting the toe, then of course it will change in motion, but under these conditions.....the toe was not really SET to begin with....it was just "messing with the linkage aimlessly". The fact that car & truck tires can survive pavement use has more to do with their greater tire diameter and rubber compounds than anything else. A small (10"dia. or 5" radius) tire on a GT or LT with 1/8" toe-in produces a much greater "scuff rate" than would occur on a (26" dia. or 13" radius) car tire, with the same toe setting (because 1/8" on a 5" radius subtends a greater "angle of divergence" than 1/8" on a 13" radius.) Therefore, if a GT or LT has a static toe-in of 1/8", it also has a dynamic toe-in of 1/8", and produces a relatively great amount of scuff (which translates into greater tension or compression on the steering linkage, relatively speaking). The high scuff rate is needed to keep the components "slack free" when the vehicle is moving because of the small dia. wheels AND the short steering arms on the steering knuckles. If these tires were run on pavement with this much toe-in, they would erase quickly.

Mownie, what you say about rolling toe-in may be true but others disagree. Here's a quote from an article on wheel alignment.

"Most rear-wheel drive cars and trucks have alignment specifications that call for a little bit of toe-in (say 1/16th of an inch or so). This will produce zero rolling toe as the vehicle is being driven down the road because the natural tendency for the front and rear wheels is to toe-out due to rolling resistance and compliance in the steering and suspension."

Here's a link to the page:

Wheel Alignment

I agree that 1/8" toe-in produces a greater angle on a smaller tire than a larger one. However, tractors also tend to have more compliance in their steering linkage than cars.

-Deerslayer

deerslayer, I do have to agree with "dynamic toe-in" being different than static toe (due to bringing into the discussion the "flexible" or compliant characteristics of components) where an independent suspension and/or front wheel drive is used. As to tractors having "more compliance in their steering linkage", I dismiss that. The suspension on our tractors is akin to the big highway trucks (in construction and stiffness or rigidity). Our tractors may routinely be found to have more overall "looseness" or slack in the linkage parts (and if you want to call that "compliance", so be it) but I still maintain that the bulk of "compliance" in tractor steering is where the rubber meets the turf.

I don't want to get this more complicated than it already is but....

Our LX277aws factory service manual calls out a bunch of toe in on both ends, I think it is over 1/4" or more if I remember right.

As was stated by some, toe in is designed to put the wheels straight when rolling down the road (or lawn), you cannot get all the deflection out the system when it is not rolling, so toe is determined from the looseness of the system.

The big toe in numbers are because there is a lot of slop in the system. There is no way you can compare a lawn tractor to a car in the quality of the steering parts.

When you talk about the caster pulling the wheels out, that will only happen if you are toed in. If you are toed out, the caster will pull the wheels in. This is with typical rear drive front steering ball joint and pivot design.

Toe out in pretty much anything that doesn't have driven steering wheels will be wandery, car or tractor. Many front drive cars were aligned toe out because they are driven wheels and will pull toward toe in with the drive load, but others are toed in, because the drive load will pull them out, based on ball joint positions.

Do a test. Put a pipe clamp across your front tires in the front and then measure toe in. Do the same with clamp on the back of the tires (assuming you can get it in there). You will see how much slop you really have. Adjust the tie rods until you have zero toe with the clamp on the rear and you will be just about where you want to be. You can then go back and see what it measures in its free state.

Booster, good points.

Mownie, I used the term "compliance" incorrectly. After looking it up, I see that it refers to compression and recoil in rubber steering components. I meant overall looseness.

-Deerslayer

booster, thanks for bringing the "pipe clamp" into the discussion. I had not thought about using one of those to "take up the slack" but it is the perfect appliance to use (or even a bar clamp...if you have one long enough to fit outside the tires). I hope all readers understand the importance of this detail if they decide to check/adjust the toe setting on their vehicle. It is imperative that all slack be removed (and in the correct direction) before measuring or adjusting toe. Be careful to use just enough clamping force to remove the slack, too much force might flex or deflect tie rods, steering knuckle arms or even wheels....which could produce a false measurement. Placing the jaws of the clamps so they only touch the sidewalls of the tires will help, the tire will "give" without bending or deflecting any "rigid" components.

I just pulled out the factory service manual for our LX277aws and it gives a whopping .59" toe in for both the front and rear. That is almost 5/8" of an inch, and on such a small wheel that is a huge amount of toe in.

Mownie, I think Booster's example of clamping the rear of the tires was to show the total amount of looseness in the steering linkage. However, clamping will take out too much slack if you are setting toe-in to factory specs.

Below is a link to instructions for using a toe-in gauge. Note that it says to move the rear of the wheel by hand to take up slack. (The instructions on the right side are easier to read than the left. Both say the same thing.)

Toe-in Gauge Instructions

-Deerslayer

Deerslayer: The clamping (lightly) of the wheels does show the loosenes, but in this case I was saying it is a good way to set the toe.

Let me explain why I think it is a pretty good way to do it:

When the manufacturers come up with a toe-in spec, it is not because they think the vehicle will drive the best with the wheels pointed that way. It is an indirect measurement that tries to account for the looseness of the system and the deflection you will see under the load of motion. With all new parts of a well designed (tight) system, the ideal toe will be very near zero, with just enough to toe-in to help directional stability. 1/32" would be plenty. The looser the system, the more that the toe in needs to be increased, with the goal to be at or near the same actual toe-in at speed as you would get with the new, tight system. This is why the link you referenced says to move the tires out by hand. Most folks using the home gauges are using them on well worn stuff and they want to get you as close to correct as possible while you are moving. In the case of a very loose system, just rolling the car back and forth will not take up the slack, so by moving out as much of the slack as you can, and then using the factory (tight system) spec, you get pretty close to what you need.

In my description of using the clamp (again lightly), you will notice that I said to set the wheels to ZERO toe-in with them clamped. This is because the clamp will pull out all the slack in the system and overcome the tire "squirm" that tries to pull the wheel back to where it was before, which happens if you move it by hand.

Especially for something built as loose as a lawn tractor steering system (and with a wide variation in loosness between tractors), I think the clamp system will give you a more accurate setting based on how loose your particular application is. If you look at the JD spec for my tractor, they give the .59" toe in setting, but how do you set it? With all the looseness, you will get totally different readings based which way you rolled, if you pushed or pulled on the wheels, and as soon as you move a wheel by adjusting a tierod, you have altered your base setting because you have pushed the slack one direction. In the JD book, I find it very interesting that they say nothing about rolling the unit or taking up slack. They must feel that the huge toe-in spec covers it all, and the actual setting is not all that critical.

One thing to remember is that if you have way to much toe-in, your inside wheel does not turn as much as it should, and you could plow it without it turning.

Wow, you guys are WAY over thinking this! Give yourself 1/2" of toe-in and call it good. Some JD's have almost 2" of toe in and are fine.

Mountain out of a mole hill comes to mind, but still no comments on the R-4 tires or frt fenders.

OK, butchs hobby, the R-4 tires would certainly lend a very aggressive look to your 445. The X 748 front fenderettes (option kit for $121.00 from Deere) would add a "custom" touch and help keep anything the R-4 cleats captured from flying off and hitting you in the face when you transit from turf to highway, or make a high speed run run on dirt or turf. Installing a set of fenders on your 445 might require that you fabricate and weld "adapter brackets" to your spindles (these fenderettes attach to spindle and follow the spindle assembly in turns). You probably want to find a 748 with this option to see just how Deere accomplishes the mtg. and look at some 748's without them to see if the spindles are factory prepared for bolt on installation of the fender kit. I have no doubt that butchs hobby can install them. Heck, you might even browse around on some sites that feature utility trailer building components and find some fenderettes that would work for you as well as the Deere OEM kit (since you're probably gonna have to develope mounting hardware yourself why not just fabricate the whole package.....just a thought...or 2)

Mownie, I figure I'll have to fab some mounting brackets, just didn't want to go to the work if they'd look funny when i got um mounted. You're right on about going and looking at a 748 with and without fenders, it'd give a good idea of what I'd need to do. I think the R-4 tires would make it look more like a tractor than a lawn mower on steriods and I doubt the R-4's would hurt the grass. First thing will be a sun roof, didn't realize how much one helps until I used this tractor without one (Two of my Masseys have sun roofs).

Either that or hop over the border and get you a 55 gallon sombrero. LOL

Even my cowboy hat gets in the way of my radio headphones, got to have some tunes while I'm relaxing---I mean getting work done!