Well, I done it. I found a smaller bag of Hydroton and replanted my poor guinea pig Av; in fact, I removed the entire rootball! I also transplanted a Strep (with roots, mostly) and a couple of Begonia cuttings. This was Saturday, and everything's still perky, although I noticed the bamboo skewer I'm using to hold up the bag is getting moldy.

Good grief, if this works!... I have some orchids I want to transplant, and a pile of other houseplants that would be much happier. I've been doing a lot of reading, and it looks almost too good to be true. The thing that always dragged about plants was the constant repotting; hydroculture could simplify the whole thing.

*Gaaaaa!* I'm so excited!

And now I have to go get poked and prodded by a Physician's Assistant. Blech.

Cheers,

Korina

Hi Korina,

I put a few leaves down about 5 weeks ago, so hopefully within the next couple of weeks I'll have some results to talk about.

I will say that my other, faster-growing plants that I put in hydroton are doing wonderfully, particularly the leaves I took off a few succulents. It's so fun to watch the roots develop!

Hi Violetta and Korina, I put a trailer (Skydiver) in the pellets almost 2 weeks ago and it looks fine. But I have it covered with a dome from the getgo. Also did a chirita and a streptocarpella and some leaves and a crown. Well we will see. Hope it works.

Here is another leaf success!!! I was NEVER able to do leaves with dirt. This is so easy. I have done quite a few leaves and they seem to really like it. I just keep it in the bag and after about 2 weeks, I keep the bag open.
I will say if you have any trouble the the hydroton, try the Primeagra.
Korina - My wooden skewers get real moldy, too. It doesn't seem to bother anything but sometimes I will wash them off.

{{gwi:369768}}

By the way. I started these leaves on July 30 so I think it takes about the same amount of time. Sally

ALOTOFPLANTS, That is great! Thank you so much for sharing your picture with the pellets. Is that the regular hydroton you used or the primeagra? That is super. Good job. donnaviola

I use the primeagra. The hydroton is great for hydroponics but I find the primeagra has better surface contact because of the irregular surface and works better for the semi-hydroponics. I ended up switching over.

The babies were growing under a pellet. I lifted it up and there they were.

Thanks for posting that pic alotofplants! I can't wait to see what the leaves I put down look like in a few more weeks. I'm so excited!

Maybe I'll open up the bags like you did... what was the thinking behind keeping the bags open after the first few weeks?

Hi Alotofplants,

just wanted to thank you. After reading your posts, I purchased some primeagra from Ray (very nice guy!). It looks like an elegant and simple way to grow AVs, and I don't have to repot, which is such a waste since I hate to throw out potting mix. I have another reason for getting it ... it's cleaner. I've been battling a 2-year ordeal with cyclamen mites and just got a new infestation despite two diligent treatments with Judo.( I still think Judo is an excellent product because it's done a good job eradicating it from most plants. But some of those sneaky bugs find their way into folds, and eggs that survive in matting could hatch out after the semi-systemic effects of Judo have dissipated.) With these pellets, dipping plants becomes much cleaner and easier to do. Oh, I'm switching to Kelthane for the next rounds of dips -- don't want to create any Judo/Forbid-resistant bugs, Avid is already become pretty useless due to over-use!

I'm sorry, but I actually thought of yet another question...

alotofplants, in your experience, will the babies push through on their own or is the hydroton too heavy for them? If you hadn't moved that one pebble, would the babies have stayed under it and rotted?

When I first started to experiment with the leaves I would keep them in the bag with just a small opening. After about 5 weeks, some started rotting. I read that after about 2 weeks the leaves will normally start rooting, so I tried opening the bag all the way still giving them a little humidity. They seeedm to do much better that way.

I have never had a problem with the babies making their way to the top. I usually watch them like a hawk so I see them through the little openings. This is one of my main sources of entertainment!

The only bugs I have still had to battle sometimes are the mealie bugs. What is nice is if they are way in the crown, I can gently dump the plant out of the container and spray it.
This causes little disturbance to the roots with this system and they rarely even notice when I put them back in.
I will soak the pellets in some diluted bleach, rinse and reuse them. I am so glad to not have to deal with the dirt knats anymore either. The cyclamen mite is supposed to be a nasty one. Good luck with them. Ray is great and very knowledgeable except he had never done african violets. I am basically still following what he does for the orchids. I have learned to use less fertilizer than with the orchids.

Hmmm. I have everything under a humidity dome. Hopefully that won't be too much for them.

Thanks for the advice!

Violetta, as long as you don't have too much condensation, they should be okay. Just remember, as soon as the leaves are well rooted, you can start taking them out of the humidity; open it a little one day, the rest the second day, and completely out the third day. They do much better that way.

Korina the Violet Slayer

Thanks Korina!

I love your signatures, by the way. "the violet slayer." Ha! You're too much!

You're welcome.

Korina the Saintpaulia Slaughterer ;-)

Hi Alotofplants, I have a question re: s/h with AV. When you set the pots in the water solution in the winter time when it is cooler doesn't the cold water affect the violets adversely? It seems like it would be too cold for them to do well. Thanx, donnaviola

Hi, that was never a problem. I guess they are sitting high enough out of the water where it is not a problem. Plus, I would assume, that the water would be around room temp. It is very amazing to me that when I take them out of the pot, the roots are sitting, very happily, right in the water. So it is not water that kills them and the temp. has not been a problem either.

I have a question. If you want to give a plant as a gift, how do you do that? Once it's in s/h can it be converted back to soil to give away or do you give that person the plant in s/h with explanation? Seems like it would be very costly in the long run. Also how many pots can you get from a bag of hydroton? Can't find it anywhere around here and I'll have to order it.
Thanks
Mary Beth

I find it less expensive in the long run. You can use deli containers and I get creative and use all types of things. I use the course primeagra not the hydroton. I find it makes a difference. There is the initial set up cost but I reuse the primeagra by soaking it in a little bleach. When I give them away I give them the container with the primeagra. You certainly could put it back in dirt I guess. If you google "semi-hydroponics" you will get First Rays site where I buy everything. I can't link it because they get mad here. You can buy different size bags so you could get a small one and just try it. He has a starter kit that I used. I find the only big down side is these pots take up more room. I have 80 AV's now!

Alotofplants,
OK you convinced me. I'm going to take the plunge! Have to back and reread the forum.
Thanks
MB

Hello Alotofplants, Ray told me that the fine Primeagra would be best for the AV's but I noticed that you use the coarse Primeagra. What do you think? Also what size pots do you use for the minis and semiminis in the s/h? I would think you would need a taller pot than the 2 1/2" that we normally put the small av's in to allow space for the 1" or so for the solution on the bottom. thanx donna

Hi Donnaviola - That is why Ray emailed me to see what size I used. He doesn't grow AV's and just assumed the smaller would be better. I started with the fine Primeagra and quickly changed to the coarse and have never used the fine since. Even when I start leaves I use the course. The fine created a lot of rotting.

I put all of the AV's in the 5.5 high container that he has. This is the large deli container. I believe a quart.
I only use the small 3.5 to start leaves and very small starters (which is rare.) These are switched into 5.5 pretty quickly. I even have all my mini's in the 5.5 size.
I also use less fertilizer than he does with the orchids.
I use the same 1/4 or 1/8 tsp. that is normally recommended. I had been over fertilizing and had very tight centers. They are loosening up now.

I have a bunch in bloom right now.

Yukako - It is hard to see the green in the pedal.
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Everjoy
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Victorian Flirt
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RD's Illusion
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Very pretty! Could you send a picture of one of your minis and semis? Thanx Alotofplants

I am not sure what semi-mini's are but here are some mini's I have:

Rob's Lucky Charm
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Orchard's Bumble Magnet
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Rob's Slap Happy - I started this from a leaf on 5/15
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Milky Way Mini Trailer
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I have a lot in bloom right now! I'm pretty sure this is a semi-mini

Ness' Satin Rose
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Those are all GEORGEOUS! Thanks for sharing with us.

I haven't taken the step to try SH yet but getting very tempted after seeing all your beauties. The thing that is holding me back is the pots, i'm just not crazy about the way they look. Could shorter pots work just as well and can they be made from the deli containers instead of buying those from that site?

Belinda

Belinda - I agree a drawback is that the pots are not so pretty. I am trying to figure out a way to dress them up.
You can absolutely use deli containers. You need to use the larger size (32 oz, 5") for most of them. For leaves you can use the 16 oz, 3". Unfortunately, the shorter pots do not give the rampant roots enough room to grow. The containers do take up more room, also. As Fred had said earlier, these could not probably be used in a show unless they were put in some type of decorative container.
For "dirt challenged" people like me, however, the results are nothing less than amazing. I could probably kill an AV faster than anyone on this board. I had given up years ago. For pure beauty, you cannot beat an African Violet. Plus, if they are happy they are work horses.

Since most plant people are also usually very creative people, I know we will eventually address these issues.
At this point, I am just thrilled I can grow them!!

Here are a few more I want to share

Ma's Jubilee
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High School Sweetheart
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Gillian-Huge Bloom
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FWIW, I did try doing s/h in an oyama pot, with fantastic results. The roots growing out of the leaf I put down far surpass the results I got from the other types of pots I tried. Hope that helps someone. :0)

Okay. To show my resolve, I just purchased three *large* plants from my local Av club; Optimara Everspecial, Buffalo Hunt, and Hawaiian Pearl ($5 each, a chunk of change for me). Even though I love minis, I figure the bigger ones have more room for error. So now I just have to tear all the gorgeous flowers off and one row of leaves to go with the drastic root pruning they're about to get. (gulp) Wish me luck.

FYI, it's been two weeks now since I removed the rootball from my guinea pig Av, and I can see a 1/2" root poking out between leaves; it's so hard to resist opening the bag to look at what's happening. But I'm strong. In fact, the other two pots (the Strep and some Begonia cuttings) are all nice and perky.

Thanks for the link to Water Roots, Sally; it's been very useful. I'm currently experimenting with making my own water level indicator -- if I can just figure out how to seal the bottom of the inner straw!

Fingers crossed,

Korina

PS You can plant in *anything* as long as it's waterproof; even then you can use a liner.

PPS Sally, those are very encouraging pix; keep 'em coming!

Korina, don't forget to post pics of your experiments for us to see! My camera's broken, otherwise I'd post some pics of the amazing root network growing off of the leaves I put down. :0)

Violetta that is so exciting. I love experimenting with this stuff.

Korina, When I switch my plants from dirt to s/h, I do not trim the roots at all. I just wash all the dirt off. I don't usually even take the flowers off and they are just fine. It is amazing how tough AV's are. I repot and just stick in a bag. I assume that is what you are talking about.

Hi Alotofplants, How do you manage the transition in moving the baby plants from one container to the next one? Oh, I am sorry, but could you tell me again what size you use to start the leaves? Oh, I see the 16oz 3" size. Then when do you move them into the 32oz. 5" size? Seems like it would take a long time for them to get big enough. I guess the rule of the measurement of the diameter of the plant as to the size of the plant when using potting soil doesn't apply here. As well as keeping the minis and semi minis contained to a 2-1/2" pot as a rule. donnaviola

Well, two of my three new violets survived the transition this morning, although Hawaiian Pearl had a bit of a trauma; sitting for two hours with naked wet roots in a chilly room (I finally fiddled with the thermostat). Then there was me knocking over a bucket of Hydroton soaking in water (if my water soluable desk dissolves I'll be in big trouble!). It was a case of the dropsies left over from yesterday. (I only knocked over one of my plants, and only once!)

Tomorrow is the third new violet and whatever else I can think of to mangle. :->

Korina, native of the Land of Confusion

Hi Donnaviola, When I move them, I usually have a large pot underneath and I slowly dump it into the container. I am holding the plant and the roots. They will many times be attached to the Primeagra. I then fill up the next the bottom of the next pot to the needed height. I then set the plant in and while I am holding it I start putting the new Primeagra in. I start them in the 3.5" diameter (3.75" tall) and they usually will stay there for at least a few months. I just eye it. I started Ode to Beauty as a leaf on November 15, 2006. It is now in a 4.5" pot and was moved out of the 3.5 pot a few months ago. It just started blooming:

Ode to Beauty
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I have ended up moving all of the AV's to at least the 4.5" diameter (5.5" tall.) This includes the mini's. I am just now moving some of the really bigs ones to the 6" diameter (7.5" tall) pots. They aren't showing stress but they look pot bound. It is amazing that the roots were crowded in the bottom sitting happily in the water.

Streptocarpella - I cannot believe how much this has been blooming!
{{gwi:369784}}

Korina - your names are great. I am looking forward to hearing about your progress. Here are some more pictures.
I guess this is a big blooming time for AV's? Mine are amazing.

Rob's Antique Rose
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Optimara's Modesty
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Yukako
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Ma's Double Cross
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Funamble
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Rob's Lucky Charm
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The streptocarpella is in the 5.5" diameter (6" tall.)

Here are some more pictures.
I guess this is a big blooming time for AV's? Mine are amazing.

Okay, now you're just showing off. :0P

Just kidding! I love your pictures. Keep 'em coming!

Thanks for the leaf-to-bloom date on that first one. I'd been told to expect about a year, but it looks like you got there a few months sooner, yes? Is that generally your experience?

I am absolutely showing off! lol. Actually, I am more amazed than anyone I can grow AV's. I was the master AV killer. Never had one for more than a few weeks. I am honored to have an audience. I have 2 teenage boys and if it isn't about money, food or girls they look at me like I have 2 heads.

I just figured out how to do leaves last November so I am not sure if this is normal. They may grow at different rates. I started the Cheers and Starry Nights in Jan 07.

{{gwi:369792}}

Speaking of showing off, I found these 2 beauties this morning blooming.

Warm Sunshine
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Jean Pierre Croteau
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Korina - I am not sure which is more annoying, when I tip over a pot with dirt or with the Primeagra. I think they are about the same. Sally

My kitten got into the oyama pot while I was out of town. That was my leaf that was rooting the best. :0(

I don't know how long the leaf was out of the hydroton, but I picked it up off the floor, plopped it back in, and put the pot under my plastic dome with all my other leaves that are rooting right now. Think that will do the trick? Or should I just snip off the end of the stem and start over?

If the leaf seems ok, I would let it go. That is so frustrating! I have had things come out of the pots and I put them back and they are fine. The most annoying this is I have put small plants outside and the birds have just plucked them out and I suppose taken them for nesting material. I will just have an empty pot.

No kidding, is it ever frustrating! That's the least of the damage he caused while I was away. My poor neighbor must have been at her wits end trying to keep up with the soil scattered everywhere.

When you say let it go, do you mean to trash it or to keep it under the plastic dome and leave it alone to see if it recovers?

Hi, I would keep it in the container. I am very surprised how tough AV's are. I brutilize the roots when I clean off the roots. Most times, after I repot, the leaves don't wilt at all and the flowers even stay fine! Definitely give it a try.

Thanks, will do!

I finally got up the courage to rinse off some roots and get an older AV in hydroton. I'm scared, but have my fingers crossed!

WOW! I've been reading this thread and am just amazed at how well you are doing with the S/H on AVs. I MAY give it a try with AVs but I'm definately going to give it a go with my collection of orchids, I have no problems growing them but I think they would be even happier growing in a S/H situation. Off to Rays to see what's what...

~Becky~

Well, of the three AVs I've thrashed, they all have limp outer leaves and two have lost their flowers (not a big deal). I've also transitioned a couple of little orchids, but they grow so slowly I may not know for weeks if they're unhappy.

Also, one of the bulbs in my fixtures went out, which means replacing *all* of them. At least the plants will get some more light.

Well, I'm off to pretend to work for a while.

TTFN,

Korina

'@#%&! fluorescent tubes!' ~Me

Korina, any update? My mom is bringing me some begonia cuttings this weekend. Did you have any luck with yours?

My update: look! Babies!
{{gwi:369795}}

The succulent leaves I put down grew like nobody's business. I'll post a shot of the hydroton vs. soil baby sedums when I get a chance. :0)

Violetta -That is awesome. S/H is the only way I have been successful with leaves. This is Everspecial which I need to repot. I have 2 if anyone would like to trade?

Korina - I had to experiment for awhile to figure it all out. I am still working on my orchids. I found I have to really use a lot less fertilizer for my paphs. Sally

{{gwi:369796}}

Well, some mini angel wing Begonia cuttings I rooted in hydroton are growing like gangbusters; the roots have already grown down to the bottom of the cup! Last week I took apart a Zebrina pendula, and stuck all the cuttings in a cup of water. Yesterday I added hydroton to the cup and poured off some of the water; it didn't even blink. My miniature ivy is still alive, as are my orchids. The AVs are not too happy right now; between the change in culture and the rather drastic increase in light, they're starting to get a bit whiny -- guess I'll have to do something about that. I've also converted two of my Sinningia speciosas; it's too early to tell if they'll like it.

I'm also staring at my mini Sinningias, and my other orchids...

And that's what I've been up to. Anyone else?

Korina

Brain: Yes, finally! The Happy Sappy Children of Many Lands ride! Where cheering music will spread the message that a mouse should rule the world!
Pinky: Oh no, Brain. Narf! You're thinking of that other park in Orlando.

Update on the babies I showed the picture of last October:

{{gwi:369798}}

Nice, Violetta; very healthy looking. I'll have to post pix soon. Remember that Begonia? Well, I finally potted it up; had to *cut* it out of the previous plastic cup and put it in a *really* large pot, which it's already thinking of outgrowing. My Sinn. speciosas are also going nuts.

As for my AVs... I still haven't figured them out.

Sally? Where's that African Violet Magazine article? Hmmm??

Korina

Just read this thread and am intrigued. Any updates from anyone? I would be so interested to see some grown plants in the Primeagra.

I can give a hydroton update. I threw 4 babies together in hydroton on July 10th. One had grown in hydroton, the other three had grown in dirt and were put in hydroton right when I separated them from the momma leaf.

One of the babies died, but the others seem to be doing quite well.

Here's a pic I took on July 10th and one I took a few minutes ago:
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This is the light I'm using:
http://www.amazon.com/Glentronics-PL-1-Intelligent-Plant-Light/dp/B0007CXXB4

It came with a pot that had drainage holes in the bottom, so I just fill the base of the light setup with water and let the pot sit in it.