I don't know answers to all of your questions, but I'll try to help with what I can. I'm pretty sure that what you get from your "leaf-only bin" is leaf mold.

If you shred the leaves and add them to a compost bin, the leaves would be a brown. You can also add them unshredded, but they take longer to break down that way.

As far as what is better, I don't know that there is a real answer to that. I've used leaves as a mulch and I've also added them to compost. I usually use them unshredded simply because I don't have a good way to shred them. I haven't created leaf mold because I don't really have the patience for it.

I think the best thing to do with them is whatever you feel most comfortable doing.

All of the above.

Shredded leaves are an excellent mulch and really condition the soil as they break down. I have used all kinds of mulches, and leaf mulch seems to make my soil the healthiest. Lots of worms.

We also keep bags and bags of spare shredded leaves to use as browns for the compost bins throughout the year. Leaves are really the "base" of our compost, to which is added kitchen scraps and occasional grass clippings.

And there is nothing more lovely than finished leaf mold. Resembles chocolate cake. I don't know the nutritional content of it vs. leaf mulch or compost, but it sure does look healthy. But this is something you have to have the room for to build a large bin, fill with nothing but leaves, and let sit for a couple years. We did a lot of renovations to our yard this year so I currently don't have room for a leaf mold pile.

All of the above are good for the garden for different reasons. Compost is the best type of organic matter to add to your soil, but shredded leaves used as mulch because they 1) aid in preventing soil erosion, 2) Aid in weed suppression, 3) aid in soil moisture retention, and 4) aid in keeping soil temperatures more even, and as important as anything else good mulches add organic matter to the soil.
Leaf mold is what shredded leaf mulches turn into, but just piling some leaves up someplace other than the garden to convert into leaf mold is a waste of a good product.

thanks for your answers. i read once that leaves are best composted by themselves, so i've been doing that ever since. but it is slow, and it does seem a waste of an otherwise immediate resource. this year i'll pile what i need onto the garden and save the rest to feed into the compost as needed. i'm psyched that, between the abundance of leaves, and the coffee grounds from starbucks, i'll have much more quantity for my compost bin from now on. up till now it's been hard for me to generate enough compost for my garden. next year i ought to have a lot!!

There is one line of thought, I think coming from a lenghty study done by a university helping a third world country try to become proficient in feeding themselves, that the more diverse the ingredients going into the compost, the better off you are because all (or much of) those different elements are sequestered in the compost, yet not showing up as N P and K.
And that when they are incorporated in your soil, each individual plants roots exude an enzyme or substance that attracts the right micro herd to consume that other material and make the particular plant food which that plant needs.

That sounds kinda logical to me, at least more acceptable than the information that I kept reading early on that most all the beneficial nutrients were consumed leaving basically a soil conditioner with low N P and K. Consequently, in my efforts to make the best compost that I can out of my abundance of oak leaves each fall, I shred them and mix them with horse manure, garden and kitchen waste, plus many fruits and veggies of just about every imagineable kind that I find in our local supermarket dumpster.

Some {{gwi:315927}} are these greens, and about 80 pounds of {{gwi:315928}} on at least two occasions (think of all that postassium in there) and {{gwi:315930}} to make compost like {{gwi:292860}} which I layer on my garden in mid winter to turn under along with other ammendments like horse manure and shredded leaves and green manure from knee high {{gwi:70667}} that I have mowed. I just can't help but believe that that is a lot better for my soil than just leaf mold, which is undoubtedly good, but not as complex. I have been extremely well pleased with what this has done for the soil in my garden and continue to be surprised with each passing season by how well something is growing there. That is my opinion based upon my experience and observations.
Bill P.

bill, i love the pictures. you got all that from a supermarket dumpster? can you imagine how much waste there is everyday all over the country? it's probably a sizable fraction of what actually gets eaten.

i go along with the idea that variety will produce the biggest spectrum of minerals in the compost.

one thing i always wonder about is other stuff that ends up in the compost, like pesticides from the non-organic produce, or who knows what from the horse manure (antibiotics? things added to the feed?) but i'm sure that's been heavily discussed somewhere else.

I may not know the best use of leaves but I make sure I use my leaves every year. This coming spring I'm going to create border beds in my yard and instead of buying a truck load of compost or top soil, I'm going to start with leaves. I setup two temporary compost bins with wire fencing and a few stakes and I filled them with my leaves and some that the neighbors rake out to the curb.

Even if I don't get enough greens to get the bins cooking I'll still use what I have in the spring as a base for the new beds. I agree with veilchen, worms love leaves.

Bill, those are great pictures. Great way to get your point across.

ant

Here is a link that might be useful: Leaf/Compost Bin Picture

Egg, if you have certain plants that benefit from giving them leaf mold, that is cause enough to skirt the composting routine.
But I think your time involved in getting some decent leaf mold is much too long. Be sure to chew them up good...go over them a second time....or...if you have a metal or tough plastic garbage can/container that the leaves can go into, use your weed whacker to chew them into tiny pieces, then put them into plastic garbage bags, add a measure of soil (compost will do), some high nitrogen lawn fertilizer, dampen it down, poke finger holes into the bottom to allow the worms to enter, then put it tied up behind a shrub....for about a year...maybe less depending on the heat built up, then use it for your roses and other mold lovers in summer.

All leaves work good....but oak and willow leaves do not break down as readily. Try to avoid these.

Thank you Egg, yeah I got all that and much more. If you look at those banannas you can see that most all of them are just about right, ripe but not even over ripe. I have got to know most of the employees at the store and mentioned to the produce manager that I got about 80 pounds one time. He said that he bet that he threw away 400 pounds of them, not because they had gone bad but because he had another shipment come in and had to make room for them. Now, that seems like a huge amount to me, but apparently not such a big deal to the people that operate the supermarked chain. You are right, it is a crying shame that so much good and edible food winds up in the landfills with about the only useful thing that I can think of that it might do is to produce some methane gas in those few facilities that are set up to capture it.
I do not worry about the things that you mention like pesticides etc. because I think that they would be miniscule, the composting process would probably eliminate or neutralize some of those miniscule amounts if they did happen to wind up in my pile, and they would be so diluted by the time that they could possibly be in the root zone of any of my growing plants that I just have so many other things higher on my list of worries to let that get in the way. My Sister in law raises high dollar quarter horses and feeds them only the best feed and they are not overmedicated etc. Even there, I think that if they did get some antibotics, most would be used up for the purpose intended, the remainder going into the scenario above etc. They have never had any noticible effect on the bacteria, microbes or worms in my compost or garden. All that continues to thrive.

And thank you Ant3eye, I hoped that it would do just that. It looks like you are off to a great start on your compost bins. I tried to post back to you on that page, but it would not let me without signing up or something.

jeannie7, let me gently beg to disagree with your blanket statement about oak leaves. That is about all that I have and they are wonderful. You can look at some of the pictures above to see how they look shredded up and the kind of compost that they make. I can make that kind of compost in pretty quick order and I think that it is a mistake to tell people that they should avoid oak leaves. If your mileage did vary, there may be other factors like the composition and make up of your pile that did not work well, the climate in your area or some other factors that I am unaware of. Some kinds of oak leaves are probably a bit harder to break down, like Live Oak which are smaller, tougher and kinda waxey. But I have read on here, and agree with it, that shredding them is a common denominator and makes them all more nearly equal. That is based upon my own personal experiences and observations with them.
Bill P.

That's right, that's right Gonefishin, circumstances can make a difference. But in the overall picture, if one can avoid such leaves as oak and willow....et al, because they have such a tough hide, they can take more time to break down. I'm using the guide that the average gardener does not live by a forest.

Oak leaves are especially useful for insulating plants...as an example, hydrangea that must be given winter protection if one is to expect bloom on OLD WOOD. Oak leaves do not readilly absorb moisture and for this reason are one of the choice insulators for such use. Styrofoam is another.

Given the risk though, oak leaves should be removed from the lawn because they pose a risk to lawns in poor health by their content of tannen.
One can argue they do not have a high acidic content....but that is nonsense, they have a content of acidness...its just the actual amount of the chemical that could do harm.
Any cover of leaves --any leaves, can deprive a lawn of necessary oxygen and water from reaching into the soil.
Who takes the bother to actually read the content of such.
Over time, if one were to leave it continually on the lawn and never take the time to remove them, they certainly can make a difference. How one looks at the health of a lawn can always make a basis for arguing the point.
How much is too much.
Considering that our lawns pay a price for things we do over an extended time, one should pay attention to what we do today....and what it might mean tomorrow.

I've already got a surplus of leaves, due to lack of grass clippings last summer to make compost piles with. So this year I thought I'd try an experiment with the leaves. I mulch mowed all leaves (oak) into the lawn and didn't rake any of them. I usually mulch mow some, and rake some for composting. I've always assumed mulch mowing all of them would be too much for the lawn. Well, my front lawn looks pretty lame already, so I don't think it could make it any worse. I went over the leaves several times with the mower, so they're in very small pieces. My thinking is that the leaves will put some much needed minerals into the soil. They'll be broken down by spring. If the lawn looks better next year rather than worse, I'll mulch mow all my leaves every year. There are plenty of bags of leaves out at the curb in my neighborhood for the taking for my compost piles!

Since I still have plenty of leaves for next year's compost piles, I'm planning on doing a leaf mold pile this year just to use up some of my leaves. I'll be interested to see how long it takes, and what the material is like when it's finished.

Sounds like a good plan to me. As has been pointed out, you can get too much mulch on your lawn grass and smother it out. I really do not think that you have to worry any about acid or tannin in the leaves, I have put many on my garden for many years and they do not significantly change the pH if any at all and have not been detrimental to any plants but just the opposite.

I do not know how you feel about using chemical fertilizers, some people that will not use them on the garden do see fit to use some on their lawn. A little bit of nitrogen fertilizer like 21-0-0 or other high nitrogen formula could help to break down those shredded leaves if it looks like they could use any help come spring time.

Leaf mold usually takes a year or more, depending on conditions and circumstances. It is usually very easy to crumble up into fine particles, and the appearance depends on the type of leaves and how much mold is present. Perhaps I can find some tomorrow to take a picture of and post for you to see.
Let us know later how your plan works out.
Bill P.

egganddart49,

You did not mention what kinds of leaves you are dealing with, unless I missed that statement. I have used all of the methods of using leaves mentioned and they all work and work well. Last year I spread mulched leaves on one of my beds for the winter (oak, maple, pecan, and stray pine needles) with very good results. If one thinks oak leaves take a long time to break down they have not dealt with pecan leaves. I have no way of proving it, but I believe some of the whole pecan leaves from 3 years ago are still out there on the lawn and garden in spots. Pecan trees surround my home, as well maple and oak further away from the house. Compared to pecan, oak and maple are very easy to compost. I guess it is a matter of circumstances and experience.

My choice is to use leaves in the compost pile, with all extra used as mulch mixed with spoiled hay/straw in the garden. Also my leaves are used as layers on any lasagna beds I create. All the pecan leaves on the lawn have caused no damage, but I also cut my lawn with a zero turn riding mower. The speed and sharpness of the blades on the mower determine how well leaves get shredded. A spray of compost tea takes care of any pecan leaf pieces in the spring; those microbes are the best workers I have around the house.

Since I live surrounded by forest I have the choice to go in the woods and get leaf mould if I desire. I did for a while, but prefer using compost, I can control what goes in the pile and get a better mix of material. Leaves are the result of tree roots going deep in the ground to get minerals to grow the leaf. I feel to not use the minerals in the leaves would be a waste. This is why I enjoy using leaves in different situations, making use of a free rich resourceÂ

Blutranes

Blutranes,

i live in the woods too, and our leaves are mostly oak, maple, some ash and black cherry. last fall, for the first time, i shredded the leaves and used them as a winter mulch. by spring they'd hardly decomposed at all. maybe there were too few months in between (i mulched them late) or maybe they weren't shredded small enough. at any rate, i planted around them and everything grew very well.

i'm so happy i found this site, because you all have convinced me to try things that make a lot of sense. my garden is too big to turn the soil over each spring, and after 24 years of gardening, i dreaded it more each year. last year i didn't even fork it, i just put manure and then leaves on the surface, and everything grew at least as well as before, and the soil is looking better than ever.

this fall i'll be composting leaves as well as mulching with them. to think i'd been putting them in a leaf-only bin all these years, not taking advantage of the great resource they are.

so thank you for the good, and labor-saving, ideas everyone!

debbie

Egganddart49,

We both are using almost the same kind of leaves, thus we have a great example of what the leaves are doing and how different zones interact with basically the same kind of leaves. To me, gardening is about "point of view", how you look at it if you will. When I look at what you are saying this is what I see:

Your zone is cooler than mine, thus you will have slower decomposition in your garden. The leaves you put down in the winter sat there due to low temperatures. What the leaves did is act like a security blanket for your garden. When rain or snow piled up on the leaves the water seeped through, not flowed. As the water seeped in it took some of the nutrients from the leaves into the soil with it. Because of the limiting effect of the leaves you suffered less leaching in your soil, this causes you to need less amendments for your plants. As well, you added nutrients from the leaves all winter long, this is a very good thing. When spring came you had to move those pesky leaves out the way, but what did you find underneath? You discovered soft tender soil, moist and happy that you are the owner of the garden. They proved their gratitude by giving you a good crop, and paid you back by making sure you did less work in the process. Shoot, if you stopped concerning yourself with how many leaves are still there and focus on what you want to better improve next years crop who knows what you will end up with.

Now ole Blutranes on the other hand lives where it is mild in the winter. His mulch gets chomped on by the microbes the minute it gets warm enough outside. By spring most of his leaves are gone, but his soil is ready to go too. Blutranes enjoys the same benefit you enjoy, water seeps into his soil too; he gets those minerals from his leaves as well. Blutranes can plant earlier, but Egganddart can still grows just as good as Blutranes can in less time. They both are given extra time for other things due to some leaves they put on their gardens. Blutranes is sitting at his computer looking for more wisdom from others to use that extra time on. Egganddart can now make a decision what Egganddart wants to pull outta Eggs' hat next.

Work in the garden is good, less work even better IMO. I conclude that you have discovered a way to do more with less and save some money, and get a mater or two out the deal. Sounds like a plan over hereÂ

Blutranes

blutranes,

yes, everything you said sounds just about right. i am very psyched about how easy it was this year and how GREAT the soil looked. pulling the leaves aside did indeed reveal soil to die for. i've always noticed how gorgeous the soil looks on the forest floor when i'm hiking and felt disappointed with the soil in my garden. now it seems like a no brainer -- i just wasn't putting enough organic matter on it.

so far this fall my NY climate is acting probably more like yours. it's been so warm i'm still making soup from a variety of vegetables in the garden, and that's unusual!

eggandbert49,

I am very happy for you, and even happier to say it will only get better each year. Living by the forest allows you to get leaf mould any time you want some, which gives you more leaves for mulching and composting. To me that is a good situation to be in...

Blutranes

Debbie, although I did not do it as soon as I said that I would, today I did take the picture below of some leaf mold that was made in one year in my hot bed/ coldframe. It is very crumbly and that in the lower foreground is a little bit that I crumbled up.
Bill P.
{{gwi:315932}}

My point, if you will, is that regardless of how good leaf mold like that pictured above is, when you combine it, shredded leaves, some horse manure mixed with thin wood shavings and alfalfa bits which absorbs the urine and produce like that pictured below, you just gotta have lots more nutrients and elements to be sequestered in the compost.

Many of my leaves have now fell off the trees so I have a lot of work and shredding ahead of me. It also prompts me to check the supermarket dumpster when I go to the store.

Todays haul includes a lot more than meets the eye, or to mention, must be 20 pounds of good grapes in there, along with apples, tomatoes, avacados, three kinds of mellons, a couple of whole pineapples, sweet and irish potatoes and lots of different kinds of greens. There is also several bunches of green onions which I learned last year that I can plant and they will put out new roots and tops and grow great. They may not make bulbs, depending on the type, but they do make some fine green onions to eat regardless.
Bill P.
{{gwi:261147}}

Hey gonefishin,

How do you go about taking from the dumpsters? Sneaky? Out in the open? I've asked around a few places if they would save old produce for me, and I've been refused. They usually talk about how they used to do it for some pig farmers but things went sour, and they don't do it anymore.

Have you ever checked the dumpsters behind a Starbucks? They've got to have tons of grounds that they've tossed out there. One of the local Starbucks always tells me they *just* took out the grounds nearly every time I go there.

I guess I'll just have to try out just going after it myself.

egganddart49,

For the mulching, composting, and leaf mold I do all three in that order. Shred and mulch until I've got everything covered, compost a bit more shredded leaves, and put the rest in a bin for a couple years hence. Its easy to just toss the surplus in a wire bin, if it doesn't break down I can always use it next summer during the season.

-Kyle

Hi Kyle. I have shopped at this store ever since they first opened, know most of the people there yet still, when I ask the produce manager about saving it for me, he said that he wished that he could but he was required to put it into the dumpster. He went on to say that I was welcome to it after that, but I might have to get in line with the other people who get it for food and other uses. Some stores are certainly not that liberal, and one of the other guys that works in the produce department tolerates me but continually says that he wishes that they would just compress everything like they do some of the cardboard.

I only get that produce during composting season and have not encountered very many other people there. Of the several that I have met, most were just regular people, some kind of interesting, one guy has some cows nearby and looks for greens, fruit and bread to feed to them, along with a couple of wild canadian geese that have taken up on a pond there. I followed him over to where his barn and cows are and found a source of cow manure any time I want to go shovel it up.

Another was an elderly widow who had sold her 3.5 acres and moved to a smaller place (so I do not think that she was huring for money). She offered me a bunch of leaf mold that had formed from collected leaves along the back fence of the new place. Another couple were looking for food, but were happy to offer to share some that they had already plucked out of the dumpster. I swapped a little with them to keep from offending them, but basically just backed off so that they could have first pick, because mine was going into the compost pile and I would rather see them have first choice of what they wanted. The vast majority of this stuff is perfectly good and if they have any expiration dates, most of the time they are almost to, just at, or a couple of days past. That might be one reason that they are not super sensitive about being sued, I dunno.
I have given some of the better stuff to people that need it on several occasions, but they knew where it came from and were happy to get it.

It really is a shame that so much good stuff goes to the landfill in situations like this.

I planted the little {{gwi:315931}} today. The ones that I planted like that last year did extremely well.
Bill P.