Hi
Not sure what to recommend lol Certainly some if not most of the genera you mention will grow if not flourish in water. Besides size there are some that require seasonal changes. Either cool dry rest periods or only damp conditions. Another problem is finding stock that has been water cultured. You'll need to do your own training.
I'm asuming you're marsh garden will be weather protected
with shallow water ?? In that case I'd go with true tropical species that are non seasonal.
I think the best place to look would be in water garden type vendors?? Then select from them by size considerations.
Are you stuck on Aroids??
There are many other tropical genera that do very well in water. Calathea,Orchids, Palms, Angelonia.to name a few.
Of course there is the submerged type plants such as the "Aquarium" types that can be grown both above and below water. The surface types such as Water lily , Lotus
I would suspect in your area you'd have to go mail order??. Not much help I know!!! gary

I forget the name of this aroid, but it's called something like water banana. It's a little big, but really awesome(thirteeth picture from the top)

Here is a link that might be useful: water banana

(this is a test post)

thanks! your point about seasonality and dormancy is a good one and i am trying to select material without that requirement. there are a couple of very nice Colocasia that i'm using, but i have those in pots so that i can move them around.

i would like the planting to have an aroid theme, but i might include some other things too. i have seen growing in wet situations out in the wild, but don't know about aquatic horticultural varieties(?). do you have any suggestions? there are a number that are used as houseplants--Galsshouseworks has some--but finding the ones that can handle wet soil might require testing many. what about orchids? the only aquatics that I'm familiar with are Bletilla and Phragmipedium. i understand that the first of these is wonter-dormant, while the latter is demanding and tricky.

i am exploring two groups of aqarium aroids: Cryptocoryne and Anubias.

i have looked around the vendors of pond plants and found that they all offer similar, rather narrow ranges of plants.

thanks again for considering this. cheers, -D

I hope that all of your work is going well. I think that you said that you are taking a trip to Mexico in September(?). I might travel there in January. I hope to have me to show people when I go next time.

Cheers,

Devin

Hi
The water banana would be a good choice if you have the room .Most Asian tropical water plants are difficult to find.
The exceptions being Crypts and Anubias as you mention.
There are dozens if not hundreds of these including some hybrids. They are highly adaptable especially about water level. I grow them in a "flood" area in the SH where they are exposed for around two months of the year. Mainly to synchronize the flowering.. These are incredibly adaptable to low light levels. Good choice as to hardiness ,size and avaailability.
Your right about orchids. The species you name require
cool to cold cycles to flower well . The tropical species such as Phaius,Calanthe, related genera are far more adaptable
In your case I think I'd start out with some easily available types and themn change them as you find more interesting species.. A lot of these are difficult to find and of course expensive when you do find them. Most of the first genera you named are reasonable and easily available
so having a few croak during the learning curve isn't so tough lol.
Good luck sounds like a fantastic project, particularly in your area!!! gary

well thanks again. please let me know if anybody has suggestions for more online vendors and other sources.

i'd be interested in knowing more about Phaius and Calanthe.

my third message above became scrambled somehow(?). i had menat to ask if anybody knows specifically about water-adaptable Calathea or other Marantaceae. any ideas?

cheers -D

Hi
All I have is my own personal experience in my area conditions.? Anyway both Phaius and Calanthe are "swamp" type terrestrial orchids You can google the genus name but I have found no water cultural data. If you do would you share the source.?? In fact the data is quit the opposite. Only learned this from experimentation.
Specimens that were slowly adapted to wetter conditions.
from my own collection. With all orchids there are also many hybrids including inter generic such as Phaio -calanthe
hybrid between the two. Have no experience with these. Paius has at least 40 species plus probably 4 times more hybrids. Obviosly culture would be dictated between the families?? Have never researched Calanthe.
Calathea Marant family again only my own experience several have actually grown better for me than terrestrially. Again these were adapted slowly by me over a period of time.. None would grow submerged ,still working on long term experience 2 years longest.
Again if you find an aquaticly adapted source for terrests would you share.. Only sources I know are true aquatics or "terrarium types that can be adapted.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Don't seem to be too many people doing this . lol gary

Typhonodorum lindleyanum, (the water banana) has been a toughy for me. Ive grown it twice (Im on my second attempt.) and seems to rot from the stem pretty easily. I did manage to keep it alive last winter and it has grown a little over the summer so who knows...it may get big. Its rare and hard to find. I got my last one from the IAS auction last summer. Some others I am growing in heated ponds in my greenhouse (and do much better than Typhonodorum) are Urospatha grandis and U saggitifolia x grandis. Cyrtosperma hamballii, Cyrtosperma hybrid (a cross with C. cuspidispathum.), Lasia spinosa, and several Anubius which can get very large in the right conditions.
Some hints...keep the water clean and aerated AND heated. Pot the aroids in deep pots with about 1/2-1 inch of lava rock on bottom and then a mix of sand/peat. I use more sand than peat...the kind you buy for a childs sandbox at HomeDepot works good. Make sure the water doesnt go above the level of the lava rock, (mine does occassionally but its best not too.) Anubius are farily hardy if kept warm so they are actually just growing in shallow pools with no pots. Good Luck
Michael M.

Michael
Know of any good sources for Asian aquatics outside of true aquatics??"Aquarium plants"
I've always wondered in areas of lowland tropical terraine Amazon basin,Congo, and of course the monsoon belt in Asia. There must be hundreds of species of plants that go underwater for long periods of time?? Judging by
rainfall totals if not underwater definitely well watered.lol
Various sections of the Amazon for example the river level alone changes by 70 feet from wet to dry season.lol.
But even those that are not underwater are constantly being soaked. Have often wondered what those species particularly those that live near the low banks do. Not only underwater but no light either. I would assume they are annual or go dormant?? From pix it sure looks awful lush but of course the the pix were taken during receeding levels, Any thoughts on that?? gary

Gary...Ive often wondered the same thing. Especially about the Amazon and the Varzea floor forests. I saw a picture in a magazine when i was a kid of a Bromeiliad on a branch underwater and a Piranha swimming next to it and always wondered how that Brom was living underwater...lol. I have a Syngonium rayii that has been growing at the bottom of one of my ponds in the Greenhouse for many years now. I guess it got knocked off a bench or from the floor...cant remember exactly how it got there but it grows fine....very strange!

I wish I knew of a good source for unusual tropical marginal plants but I dont. The plants I have gotten were from collector friends or grown from seed, etc.

Michael M.

thanks again for the continued comments!

if anybody would like to pursue this question further please speak up; it could be useful to combine efforts.

as several of us have mentioned already, there are probably many more species among commerically available stuff that can be grown this way, but since they have traditionally been marketed as houseplants or tropicals they are simply associated with "moist but well-draining" as soil preference. the trick would be to find more in-depth ecological information, which is pretty thin for most things. one good tack to employ might be to reference scientific papers likely to list species associated with certain conditions, i.e.- "plants associated with the seasonallyy flooded lowland tropical forest of the......", or something like that.

lastly, i would realy like to trade for divisions of anything that people might have on hand. i have a few intersting plants.

cheers,

-D

Michael
Since I've always been an epiphyte freak lol. I find those type pix interesting also. Wouldn't dream of doing that to any of my Broms lol. Of course I guess the most interesting part is the tree rather than the marginal growth. Even if the tree is above water level not only is
it being drowned ,every 6 feet of water doubles atmospheric pressure. it is receiving at most 1 percent of the usual amount of light . So does the tree die go dormant.?? I would assume the brom dies and regrows from seed but if the tree does that also how did it get so big?? lol Are you looking at less than one years growth?? Obviously if the tree wasn't there ,no bromeliad in the first place lol
I went to Costa Rica primarily to see the jungle like everybody else ,but also to see various epiphytes growing wild lol. I was so disappointed I could see hundreds of species with binoculas, most were easily 50 feet above ground!! I feel sure I saw a Cattleya orchid but could carry the ID. no further. It was around 20 feet from the ground so I gritted my teeth and climbed the tree.More disappointment lol It was not in flower and there was so much secondary growth it was almost impossible to tell where one species started and another began. I counted at least 30 eithr touching the Catt or growing close by.
But even casual obsevation for only 3 days was very surprising, The area is listed as non,seasonal evergreen dry forest. It not only rained every day but buckets lol,
Only at dawn and sunset for around an hour. Brilliant sunshine tempered by forest of course. The grow area dripped water every day!! was still dripping when I left!!
As everybody knows Catts cannot tolerate wet conditions.
I wanted to climb the tree and repot it lol
Anyway on a happy note there were no dinner plate sized spiders ,scorpions ,or mosquitoes ,tree crabs.snakes In fact I was not bitten at all nor did I fall out of the tree!!! I did mess up a bit of epiphtic mosses and a couple of ferns .I'm hoping very common species lol
gary

Gary...funny story about Costa Rica. I have one that is very similar about the same country. I was in college (back in the day) and doing a Tropical Cloud Forest Ecology course on Cerro de la Muerte, the second highest in CR. We were about 2500m up and right below the tree line in a bamboo/Oak forest. It was dripping wet with epiphytes so one afternoon I took up a small, moss covered tree to look at an Orchid growing about 12 ft. up and crash...I fell out of the tree and sliced my hand on a piece of cut bamboo on the forest floor. Needless to say, the 5 hour ride down the PanAmerican Hwy to a clinic in an upscale mall in San Jose (Imagine the looks I got being a scruffy, mud and blood covered college kid wearing a backpack and rubber boots,) was rough! Then, lets just say the practices of the doctor were a little different than what you might be familiar with in the US. Anyway...all that for an Orchid which I didnt even get a look at.

Hi
One more story then I'll shut up lol
Herbert R. Axelrod noted tropical fish collector was being interviewed ,about his many treks through many many areas of the worlds"jungles".
Interviewer "What have you found to be the most dangerous things in the jungles?? Insects, Spider, poisonous snakes disease,hostile natives??
I'd have to say, the most dangerous by far "Short people with machine guns!!lol gary

well, please do chime in if anybody else has suggestions for species and sources of aquatic aroids, orchids and Marantaceae.

does anybody here in the US have any Lasia spinosa that you might be able to sell or offer in trade? or can you suggest any retailers who might have it? i have done a few Internet searches with zero results.

Hi
Asiatica nursery used to have them .40/50 bucks plus shipping. gary

I've got 2 water bananas about 7-8 feet tall now. They're easy to grow here in the tropics but shy to sucker.

I could go hunt for some Lasia spinosa and also small water bananas. Do let me know if u need them. The divided leaf form,i hear, is more expensive and sought after than the entire leaf form. Will go have a look....

Just discovered this place! My interest is also in water aroids and I grow Cyrtospermas, Urospatha and of course, Typhonodorum and others.

ghundu
You had me all excited until I noted your location ,
Singapore.lol Asian tropicals are difficult to locate in the US,particularly Aroids. You probably have the problem with tropical American,African species??
Would love to see some pix of your grow area??
gary

It's not that bad here at all! we collect from all over the place and have stuff brought in and out with the proper papers of course!

I'm digging up some pictures for you...
{{gwi:389873}}


{{gwi:389874}}


{{gwi:389876}}

If you're interested I'm sure we could arrange a trade or somethg :)

Hi ghundu

I'd be most interested in any Cyrtosperma and Urospatha you could get for me. I would be willing to pay for them a I don't have much apart from Alocasias and Colocasias in my collection, which don't seem as good for a one to one trade

do post a reply if you're interested

many thanks

Alocoloman