I believe so -- Tho this isn't the most common pattern.

It can vary widely.

Jeri

Here is a link that might be useful: Baldo Villegas' RMV Page

I agree with Jeri. Looks like RMV to me too. I would contact the vendor.
Olga

Jeri and Olga, thanks for your input. I trust your judgement from what I've seen of your knowledge on this forum. I've sent an email to Pat along with the pictures posted here.

Thanks

Eric

I've got a Molineux (not from Roses Unlimited) that has some strange markings on the leaves that I'm thinking is RMV. It's not a watermarking pattern, but has some similarities with the leaves above. I'm not sure if I should send leaves off to a lab, but probably should.

I'm beginning to think that many of the David Austins are virused, and am getting turned off from them.

Mosaic varies widely with rose variety, strain of the virus, and local weather conditions, so it could be. But I've observed a lot of mosaic over the last 25 years, and I've never seen this pattern. So I have to doubt it. Looks more like insect damage of some sort to me.
Malcolm

Sandy, I've got Gertude Jekyll, Abe Darby, and Heritage own root from J&P (supposedly virus free...we'll see) and no signs of RMV yet. Does being under patent prevent an Austin (or any other rose) from being virus indexed?

Malcom, your comment is a ray of hope. I sure hope it's just bugs...those I can deal with. I defintitly give weight to someone who's seen 25 years worth of RMV. :)

Patent status does not affect a nursery's ability to have virus testing done. The ELISA, 'Shirofugen', 'Mme. Butterfly', and PCR methods of indexing don't require the propagation of a new plant to do the test. Our program has dealt only with non-patented roses from the standpoint of curing infected plants, since that process does involve propagation. However, the UC Davis FPMS facility has patent rights to work with roses from most of the major breeders.

Just letting everybody know that I received a prompt reply from Pat at RU assuring me she's never seen RMV on her Jude plants. She advised me to let it grow and to keep in touch. She said a possibility for this might be the extreme heat. I'll continue to monitor the plant. Thanks everyone for your input. Sorry if I was alarmist, but I'm (as I think many people here rightfully are) hypervigilant about my roses.

Eric

RMV does not disturb the cuticle on top or bottom of the leaf-- only the green sandwich filling between.

Insects, except for leafminers (which this isn't) disturb the cuticle, usually on the bottom. You can see whether insects have been chewing on the cuticle if you look with a 6x hand lens, which every gardener should own. You may also see the perp. Nymphal shucks of leafhoppers are white with long rear legs.

Cindy,
J&P does advertise virus free, however as recent as this year they were distributing electric blanket with RMV. I went round and round with them and finally talked to someone who was knowledgeable. I received a phone call, but I am still waiting to see what the outcome will be. I wasn't happy to hear that they knew there was a problem, and still let the plant into commerce.
Diana

Cindy, I trust the opinions above, very savvy gardener's,
but it could be a lack of iron. Try giving the plant more
iron if you have'nt already and see if in time it helps.

I have seen the same markings on one rose here and have sent leaves and hips for testing. No results yet. One possibility that you should check right now is the pH of your soil. It is possible that the pH dropped and that you are seeing the effects of aluminum toxicity. That is my next test, assuming the RMV virii tests are negative. Of course negative ELISA tests results only mean the tests were negative, not that the roses are virus-free and pathogen-free. Look for misshapen leafleats. Check out the linked photo of strawberry latent ringspot virus for the leaflet tips that are deformed. I don't see that in your pictures.

Here is a link that might be useful: Strawberrry latent ringspot virus of the rose

Mosaic viruses (not just on roses) by definition have sharply delineated borders between the discolored areas and the normal leaf color.
Viruses with mottled symptoms have mottled borders between the discoloration and the normal coloration.
A plant pathologist visiting my garden picked up on a mottle virus symptom on one of my HMusks (from Park Wayside) from thirty feet away. The mottle looked as if raindrops had moved and concentrated very fine dust and then dried, but the discoloration was internal, not external.

Ann, that's a useful clarification. Would mottle viruses not show on the standard rose virus assays? Is the Elina watermark virus a mottle virus? I remember when I first noticed it, I thought it would prove to be insect damage.

I went to look at other roses to see if I could find anything similar. I found the leaf below (on the left held up next to the Jude plant) on my 2 year old William Baffin (that I've dubbed Audrey II..crazy grower). They look pretty similar. I found this leaf towards the inner part of the bush..newer growth looks fine.

{{gwi:304448}}

This is closeup of the reverse of the leaf off Billy Baffin:

{{gwi:304449}}

Do viruses (mosaic or mottled) stay within cellular boundaries? In the photo above, you can see the actual boundaries of the cells in the leaves..the yellowing is by the cell and does not bleed across. Do mottled viruses have the same effect on a rose?

Bern, be sure to let us know what you hear from the lab!

The yellow one certainly looks virusy, also virus shows equally on the lower surface except muted by the matte texture. It would be odd, though, to have the same unusual virus pattern on two roses. Contagion occurs, but apparently it is quite rare.

Also it is typical of virus to show on several leaves/canes of the same age but not on the whole plant. Expression of symptoms can be provoked by particular weather conditions.

I don't think you can see cells. Those are something like sections between tiny veins, I think.

About rose virus tests (ELISA tests), each one tests for a single virus, no more. If immature leaves are sent in, the titre of virus may be so low that the enzymes are below the threshold of recognition. Rose rosette has no test because scientists haven't been able to isolate the pathogen. I don't think there's a test of Rose Spring Dwarf which seems to be coming out as a 'real' virus in a paper soon. And Dr. Gergerich reported a new virus that she found (with colleagues) on a seed-sown multiflora with RRD (only what she isolated wasn't RRD) so there's another virus out there. Doubtless there are many more.

I found a website for european rose production and here's some of the info.

The European and Mediterranean Plant Protection Organization published a "Certification scheme for rose"

"The specific scope is to produce certified pathogen-tested material of Rosa species and hybrids."

Rose pests listed are:
Fungi:
Verticillium alboatrum
V. dahliae
Leptosphaeria coniothyrium
Chondrostereum purpureum
Chalaropsis thielaviodes

Bacteria:
Agrobacterium tumefaciens.
A. Rhizogenes

Viruses
Prunus necrotic ringspot
Apple mosaic
Arabis mosaic
Strawberry latent ringspot

And it comments "The name Ârose mosaic is loosely used for the diseawe caused by one or other of the viruses PNRSV, ApMV anD ArMV.

Finally it lists five nematodes. One is a root-knot; three are root-lesion, and the final is Xiphinema diversicaudatum "Virus-vector nematode"

ItÂs an interesting read, and the inspections and tests imply that infection must be checked for continually, not just upon planting.

In the body of the document are the fungi many of us have grown to hate that are more common in our gardens. They are supposed to be controlled but are implied to be less of a problem that the diseases listed above.