The growing conditions for my Lyda Rose aren't too different from yours, except that I do spray. Mine had bad blackspot the first year or two, but that seems to have stopped. However, mine is always the first to get spider mites. In spite of all this, it continues to do a nice job of growing and blooming. Mine is now probably somewhere between 3 and 4 feet tall and just as wide. It's an airy looking plant that blooms plentifully in the spring and then does continue to bloom here and there the rest of the year. It is a nice rose, but I wouldn't want to continue growing it if I didn't spray.

Thanks so much for this information, Phil. Shovel pruning, if it is going to be inevitable in our growing conditions, makes better sense to do it now than rather than later. I don't want to go through an additional season lacking beautiful plants in that important spot. So you've saved me a good bit of aggravation with your trouble to help me here. Thank you!

Best wishes,
Mary

Hello Rosesinny,

I'm in the Piedmont of NC, a place I feel sure that those who spray would have success with Lyda Rose. I'd guess that we are no more BS prone than New York state's country areas, but NYC might have fewer forests and thus far fewer fungi to deal with? We cleared some trees to build the house, but much of our property remains forested. The place I bought my Lyda Roses is farther to the south than we are--Roses Unlimited--so I doubt that there's any problem with growing Lyda Rose if you spray here. We're just not going to do that.

One factor might be that two of the three Lyda Roses are planted alongside two Brilliant Pink Icebergs. I was thinking more of how good the two might look together and the shade tolerance for Icebergs when deciding on that... though I knew that plenty of rose growers in the East have reported BS problems and probably should have assumed it was a bit risky. Anyway, all four of those plants are close to being totally defoliated now, and I'm ready to start over for the planter that they're in, adjoining a pergola. Since reading your post, though, I've started thinking about putting the Lyda Roses into 2-gallon containers and placing them in a sunnier spot to recover, and perhaps place them somewhere else later. But for sure the Brilliant Pink Icebergs are going to get tossed. I do love everything about the Icebergs, but they're really much better sited on the West Coast then here.

Something is messed up on my computer's interface with the garden web website. When joining, I provided all my info, but it reported my location as the United States only... and, as a matter of fact, that's what shows up here for you and every other member when I click on their name. And I see no place to modify my profile at all. But anyway, I'm not OregonMary or whatever... just (North) CarolinaMary. From the point of view of what we can grow, well, most roses--those that need cold winters and those that need mild winters and hot summers. Shade is the big problem for roses here, though there are some areas with pretty good direct sunlight.

I am trying to decide what to put in place of the roses in the planter. I'm thinking of Climbing Pinkie, but I don't know whether it might work with so little direct sunlight. I've also thought of Old Blush Climbing, but am getting the impression that the climbing form might need more sunlight than the bush form. I think I know that Madame Plantier would do really well. (There's approximately full sun from late November until mid April, when the leaves come back on our deciduous trees.) My husband would really prefer a rebloomer, though, so I am trying to think of things. We need for that spot low thorns, some flexible canes for training, high BS resistance, and really good shade tolerance.

I don't think there's a chance that Zephirine Drouhin would work in terms of disease resistance, but I've given some thought to Kathleen Harrop. Probably not. Cornelia from all but (perhaps) one nursery in this country isn't almost thorn-free, and though I love that rose, the one possible source for a very low thorns version would be furnishing a too-small band for planting at this time of year (at least for my comfort level). But I might go for it anyway from another nursery. I've also thought about Mortimer Sackler, Snow Goose, Renae, Lamarque, and Madame Alfred Carriere. The disadvantage with Madame Alfred Carriere is the fast hardening up of the canes that makes them hard to train if you for any reason can't keep working at it... and I know the rate at which we tend to get around to fulfilling all our intentions on yard work here.

We have a Renae, if removing the one cane I saw with RRD worked. When we got the first one, it began to go downhill in its pot on the back porch as it became increasingly shady from the deciduous trees to its south. But after moving Renae into a spot with 3-4 hours of sun, it did fine. The spot for the planter is somewhere in between those two extremes, so it's hard to guess.

We also have a Ghislaine De Feligonde, and there's a temptation to just plant it there and be done with it. However, I was thinking that something more leggy than that big bushy one would be better, so we can also see the jonquils and hellebores I'd like to plant there.

Decisions, decisions.... If you have any further ideas, don't hesitate to make suggestions. Thanks so much for your Lyda Rose feedback!

Best wishes,
Mary

hello Mary,

How about Aimee Vibert or Princess of Nassau - both white, not very thorny, will grow in shade and easily trained.

>Aimee Vibert or Princess of Nassau - both white, not very thorny, will grow in shade and easily trained.

Thanks a ton, Campanula. I'm seriously considering them both. Aimee Vibert looks close to perfect, depending on how well it can do in the level of shade in that spot past July and into the fall. That particular time for blooming is close to ideal if it will bloom/stay healthy in so much shade; with all the azaleas and rhododendrons here we're not so desperate for early and mid-spring blooms, but summer and fall is an entirely different matter. I like the Princess of Nassau too, and it might perhaps take better advantage of the sunnier earlier conditions in the spring here, though I might like Aimee Vibert's blooms just slightly better.

You got me to doing some more reading in a lovely book on climbing roses by Charles Quest-Ritson, Campanula. The Noisettes really did have a good many shade-tolerant roses in their history, didn't they? And they ought to like the hot summers around here... :)

I'm considering two climbers together to cover the pergola: Aimee Vibert and something else, maybe another white, like Princess of Nassau, or even Madame Plantier, but more likely a pink, like Renae. Or the red Eutin. Liz Druitt says that Eutin is among the very most shade tolerant of all roses, so it ought to do pretty well at least in the spring and up until mid-summer in the spot. I've always thought that red and white looked good together too. Something lower for the third (and fourth?) plants for the planter... maybe Marie Daly, though I don't know whether it's really _that_ shade tolerant. Well, perhaps a second Eutin would fit that bill too; it might look nice hanging over the sides of the planter.

Thanks again for the great ideas!
Mary

Well,
How about Indian Roses without thorns?

Here is a link that might be useful: paper plates

After I posted, I realized I have a better rose for BS than Lyda Rose. It's huge - Climbing James Galway. Very little BS at all - almost as good as the others I mentioned. And very few thorns, which is a plus for me. The only problem is that it doesn't bloom as much as Lyda, which is pretty much always in bloom and has become one of my favorite roses.

But if you're looking for a good BS-resistant bloomer, Safrano/Isabella Sprunt is great, at least here. I live in a slightly warmer area than most of NYC - it's humid as hell and warm and we're shielded from winter winds, which is probably why my teas do so well. But if you can grow them in your area, Mons Tillier and Isabella Sprunt are as good as Knockout, at least for me. Good luck!

Hello Rosesinny,

I haven't quite decided/gotten anything ordered yet and appreciate the extra names to look into. Thanks so much!

Mary