Try Sally Holmes

Any of the early yellows.

Robert -- Here are a few that have worked well that way for us, or in places we have visited:

1. MERMAID -- We saw this at Windrush Gardens, near Baton Rouge, LA. It looked like a massive, massive haystack.
It was one of those once-in-a-lifetime sights.

2. SALLY HOLMES -- She grows here like a very tall tree, blooms massively in the spring, and decently the rest of the year.
3. LAVENDER DREAM -- Grows shorter, but wider than Sally, but nearly as massive. The heaviest bloom is the spring bloom, but it blooms all year round, and is blooming reasonably well now.
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4. R. ROXBURGHII -- I've seen this used as you describe, in both old and new gardens. Some old gardens in Louisiana, which had gone through very bad times, it was the only surviving original plant.

5. SMITH'S PARISH -- Bigger than a bus here. No disease, year'round bloom.

Jeri

Jeri, what are the roses in your picture?

Robert, I think we are in similar zones. When I first grew Mrs. B.R. Cant, a friend was suprised that I could grow it in our climate. I have lost a few of them, and I think the first year to grow it, we cannot have our odd temperatures. The super warm winter followed by the sudden single digit temps are very bad for her. I think that the roots might take longer to get established than some roses, because after the first year, she seems to be ok.

I have the same question, and am following your thread.

I like Cramoisi Superieur, Monsieur Tillier, and Duchesse du Brabant. Marie Van Huitte is the center piece of my new front bed. Penelope can get huge, but blooms consistently for me throughout the summer.

I have other roses that I am watching, but have not proven themselves yet.

I ended up SP about 75 roses, so I also need some good names this year.

SAmmy

Sammy,

How long were your roses in the ground before your SP'd them? I had the idea we got started into roses around the same time, and very few of my roses would have had enough time to prove themselves....except any of the bagged HTs from the big box stores, of course. I'd love to hear of some of the roses you had anticipated being "good" that have not made the cut.

Robert

I have been growing roses for years, but I have also been aware of those that would get black spot as soon as I missed a couple of weeks of spraying. I have been planning to stop spraying fungicides for years. I had already stopped the insecticides. The last time I sprayed was about July of 2007.

This summer I pulled out 6 Prairie Stars, 1 Distant Drums, Memorial Day, 2 Gemini, 11 Simplicities, 7 of Europeanas and Olympiads, Grand Prize, Glamis Castle, 2 SHarifa Asmas, 2 Icebergs, Moonstone, 2 Dolly Partons, 2 Kirsten Poulsons, 2 Trumpeters, Morocco Rose, 2 or 3 Mister Lincoln, 2 Opening Night, 2 Tropicana, Comte de Chambord (bad rose, probably virused), 2 or 3 Brass Band, Mardi Gras (I think) 2 Gentle Persuasions, 2 Shreveports, 3 Honeysweets, 4 Outta the Blue, Elina, Sunsprite, Peace, Chrysler Imperial, Playboy, Livin Easy, Honey Dijon, Hot Cocoa, Double Delights, Black Magic, Sheer Bliss, Breathless, Raspberry Twirl, Gruss an Teplitz, Jean Giono Abbey de Cluny, Legend, more Simplicity, Queen Elizabeth, Joseph's Coat, Prairie Sunset (a mistake), Tiffany.

Most of these were multiples, and I stopped writing the numbers.

Jeri, Barb, Olga and others had talked about testing the roses, and watching them fade away. If mine were struggling, and if those in my zone could not grow them well, I got rid of them. I can replace them for $10 -$20 each, and would rather do that than to watch my wonderful hobby just deteriorate.

I am watching carefully, and making a list of those that will thrive here and look pretty. I am tired of climbers, and also want free standing large roses. I don't want those that only bloom in the spring because that is when I am most busy. I intend to start a thread soon of what we have done with our yard.

I just reread what you wrote, and some of my roses have been in the yard for years and years - long before I realized I wanted to stop spraying. There were only a few that I thought would be good, that were not. I think Prairie Sunset was one, and it could have ended up being good after a year.

I will have some black spot, but not like I had with those roses I just listed. I will probably soon pull out Marie Pavie, I am just not sure. I do want to start a pot ghetto so that I can try to trade. That and growing tomatoes are my next ventures. It is such a problem that pot ghettos and tomatoes require attention just as the spring breaks and the roses need attention. (School still needs attention too.)

I hope I have not given you too much information. I also hope that I get the names of some very good roses -- and the sources. It seems to me that Chamblees is pulling out of growing the older varieties, and I need another source. I am really looking into Ashdown, and do like ARE.

Sammy

Sammy, the two big roses are Sally Holmes (white) and Lavender Dream (lavender-pink).
That's why I put that photo up -- to illustrate those two.

Now that I think about it tho, it also illustrates something else.
Sally Holmes is officially a Shrub Rose, but is mostly sold in the US as a climber.
We started this plant on a wooden tuteur. The remains of that are still clinging to it. :-)
It makes a remarkably lovely freestanding Shrub, if you have the space.
Lavender Dream is sold as being a 4-ft-tall plant.
These two are pretty close to the same size -- so you just can't tell from the official descriptions.
(That's why eclectic public rose gardens are nifty.)

I should also add that this particular Sally Holmes came from Heirloom Roses in OR.
They're not my favorite vendor, but ya gotta give credit where it's due.
They imported their mother plant from England, and I think it is probably not virused.
It grew from one of their skimpy rootlings to a full-sized climber in a year.
We have, FWIW, had US-grown, budded, plants of Sally that never grew over 4-ft.

Jeri

If you don't mind once-bloomers, I'd go for albas, albas, albas. Their foliage is so beautiful, and most set hips once they mature. I love their large, arching growth. Alba Maxima, Blanche de Beligique (few hips on this one), and Great Maiden's Blush are our best. Pompom Blanc Parfait's flowers are too small for the size of the plant. Celestial has not thrived for us. In bloom, no rose is more refined and fragrant.

I'm also crazy about eglantine, which has wonderful hips, great apple scent in the foliage, sweet pink flowers in spring, and a great set of backstories. I can talk for ten minutes about this rose on our tours, and sometimes do.

Damasks may not be disease-resistant for you, but in my dream line-up of big shrubs, I'd have to have one Autumn Damask and just accept its sparse, lanky growth. Judicious pruning would help, I'm sure. We grow a mossed, white sport - Quatre Saisson Blanc Mousseux - that is really gorgeous.

Many of the Hybrid Musks will grow to big arching shrubs - Lyda Rose is terrific, but we also grow Pax, Penelope, Buff Beauty and others in big mounds.

Another terrific rose that can get big is Blush Noisette. Again, it's more of a mound than a free-standing shrub.

Yes, many of the teas, at least here in California, will build and build into 8 feet or higher piles of constant bloom. We have a White Maman Cochet that is simply fabulous. I don't know how big they'll get for you.

I wouldn't in good conscience recommend Mermaid, although I'll bet that Jeri's sighting of that one was indeed remarkable. I can't imagine dealing with its armature.

Would Susan Louise be hardy enough for your climate? I've often thought about putting it at the back of my border. It's a bit gawky, but reblooms well with the most astonishing large, pointed buds.

There are so many choices. I envy you and Sammy for making plans to plant. I'm SPing and adding a few roses at a time at home and in the cemetery, not nearly so much fun!
Anita

I wouldn't in good conscience recommend Mermaid, although I'll bet that Jeri's sighting of that one was indeed remarkable. I can't imagine dealing with its armature.

*** AAMOF, that one at Windrush Gardens may be the ONLY one like that in the world.
And I bet I know why.
;-)

Jeri

I will be following this post with great interest. I need big hardy easy care roses.

Florence

I have been told Darlow's Enigma is a wonderful, huge, no-spray rose. Both Smith's Parish and Red Smith's Parish stay beautiful with no-spray. Mutabilis is also a great speciman rose that stays very healthy and nice looking with no spray. And, of coarse, Mrs. BR Cant. I have a grafted (on fortuniana) a Gartendirektor Otto Linne (my spelling may be off on some of these) that is becoming a huge, magnificent rose, with no spray whatsoever. The tea rose that I got from Ashdown called Archduke Joseph, also is extremely healthy with no spray. All of these roses are in full sun, with the exception of Smiths Parish. He is getting too much shade this time of year and I am going to move him. Even so, no blackspot except on about 2 leaves.

I'm with you on spade pruning roses that don't make the grade. If a rose is going to be a blackspot, or otherwise diseased problem, it shows up within the first year here. I would never waste 3 years with a rose that can't cut it no-spray.

Sandy

Freestanding...that would include my fenceline roses, roses too big to stay/play well with other roses in a bed, but definitely worth keeping.
Chianti-once blooming fiercely fragrant deep red.
The Gift: repeats rampantly white blooms(singles), great fall to winter hips
Lady Carolina: repeat, light pink. Oblivious to weather.
American Pillar: needs one metal fence post for support to start, then self supporting
Alba mediland
Fortunes double yellow: cold weather may limit it to smaller mannerly in my garden.
James Galway: large vase shaped superb bloomer on multiflora rootstock
Leander: large vase shaped, superb bloomer, lovers of pastels often feel love at first site with my Leander.

Rugosas in my garden grow in heavy clay soils; they are vertical and self supporting.

I hesitate to add many roses that are from wichurana. My Gardenia loves this part of the world, it loves it too much and the darned bushes get huge and unwieldy.

How about some species that look good and are self supporters: R. alba semi-plena, R. canina, R. elganteria, and R. moschata.

And a cop out: any of the early Noisettes.

If a rose is going to be a blackspot, or otherwise diseased problem, it shows up within the first year here.

*** OTOH, in our area, some roses may be plagued by powdery mildew in their early stages, and outgrow that problem in maturity.

Jeri

I'm following this thread with keen interest.

Sammy, I see that most of the roses you got rid of would fall into the categories of roses I avoid adding to my garden.

Thanks everyone.

Robert

Lavender Dream (own-root) very disease-resistant right from the start, and repeats better than many HM's. I am in love with Lyda Rose but foliage repeatedly sheds; conveniently from the inside out and bottom up so it doesn't show too much! Fortune's Double Yellow very healthy but is a once-bloomer. Mrs. BR Cant very healthy and by far the biggest tea, even outgrowing Mr. Tillier who has more sun. And a big cheer for Blush Noisette-- healthy, good repeat, and divine fragrance. My Blush Noisette is only in its second year and is, um, headed towards graceful but not there yet! I may be trippin/, but I think Buff Beauty is healthier than other HM's which is not logical considering its color! Lucky you to have the space to grow roses this way. Oh, and Alister Stella Gray is worth a mention here-- the fragrance makes up for her tendency to be buffy white allsummer!

Sammy & Robert, two very good sources of own-roots are Countryside Roses in Mississippi and Roses Unlimited in the highlands of South Carolina. I have ordered from Texas since I've been here & the roses made the trip just fine. Also forgot to mention r. rugosa alba and rubra and Roserie de l'Hay-- big blocky bushes and tend to be well-foliaged all the way to the ground (both Sarah von Fleet and Hansa were too leggy for me).