And it was probably lovely not too long ago. Please show us what it looked like before winter. And we'll all dream of spring with you.

Sherry

It is so tempting to let the thread go at this point. I think it was poor judgement on my part to copy such ugliness.

Here is my favorite picture of some of the roses that were:
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Prairie Star refused to even grow many leaves unless sprayed. All of these are gone now.

I am hoping for great things as we work on this bed.

Sammy

Sammy, I didn't think your picture showed an ugly garden at all.

I wondered how the roses you didn't pull out did this summer, which successful, which so-so, which borderline.

I thought about what other roses I could recommend, but our growing conditions aren't really the same, so I didn't think it would be helpful.

I did want to know what you're thinking about planting next spring or have on order.

I did want to know how you feel about your garden at the end of your first no spray year. Hopeful?

I'm also very interested in your no-spray project and how you're feeling about it.

I notice a lot of white in the second picture. I don't know if that was intentional or not, but I adore and would love to have a white/silver garden. It's really beautiful.

Sammy, my bad - I had a hard time knowing what I was looking at. Ugly gardens are painful for the owner but a good lessen for the rest of us.

"All of these are gone now."

I guess I didn't understand that. I have always envied northern gardeners for the vast number of roses you can grow. Being limited to Chinas, Teas & Noisettes has been such a drag but the flip side of that is that it limits a vast number of errors in my trial & error garden - which is not to say that some of my roses haven't been run out of town. I sympathize with you greatly. My FRONT garden was leafless for August through the end of September. It was all I could do to keep a stiff, upper, humiliated lip. I wish I could make suggestions for good no-spray roses that love your area. Hopefully, others can.

BTW, I admire your courage in posting the first photo. I couldn't do it when someone started a string on Ugly August Gardens a while back. I just could not. (I really hope others will give you the help you're asking for.)
Here's my summer garden:
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Top to bottom: Don Juan, Jean Bach Sisley, Pink Gruss an Aachen and the much bragged on Duchesse de Brabant but not in my yard.
Sherry

Marie Van Houtte has done ok, as have Spice, and Natchitoches Noisette. NN and Arethusa are the two that I brought from the back to replace many of the Prairia Stars and Distant Drums. I have also brought around Splendora and Square Dancer. They were new this year, but seemed to do ok. THey are closer to Traviata, and Francis Dubreuil. Also Archduke Charles is closer to them.

In the winter picture to the left are 11 Knock Out roses, and to the right are 3 SDLM. They have all been disease resistant.

My CHristmas this year will be some replacements for the ones that are gone.

Closer to the house used to be about 6-8 Europeanas and Olympiads. They are gone and have been replaced by an Aloha that I want to grown as a "standard" as opposed to a climber, and Rina Hugo. In back of these are my 3 Gruss an Aachens that seem to be ok.

I am preparing to put mulch down, but I need to wait about a month until the rabbits, mice, etc., have made their homes, and won't try to live under the mulch and feed off the roots of my roses.

The picture doesn't look too bad really for winter here. In a few days, it will be decorated with Christmas lights and a few little garden thingies that will liven it up.

I definitely want constant bloomers as replacements, and I want older roses - chinas, teas, or any older rose that blooms in the summer.

Sammy

Sammy, I don't know if it's on your list, and it's not an old rose, but Belinda's Dream was no-spray disease-free and a blooming machine for me when I lived in Florida. She's definitely on my list to try up here.

Tell me about your plant markers, Sammy.
I'm looking at the one you have identifying Pink Gruss an Aachen, and I'm really liking it.

Randy

teeandcee, I have two Belinda's Dreams, and I like them, but they are too big. I need to prune them since they seem to bloom best towards the top, and be rather leggy down lower.

I really am after older roses, but that is a very good suggestion.

Randy, that is Sherry's plant marker. It is impressive.

Sammy

Have you looked at a rose called Stanwell Perpetual Sammy? i've been noticing it a lot lately but i don't think i can grow it here. Maybe someone who know this rose can chime in about BS resistance?

Randy, the markers are from Paw-Paw. If you use the link below, scroll down to "F". For the actual label, I bought a Brother P-Touch label maker on Ebay for about $15 (regular price is over $50, I think.) I think the model is PT-1830. I chose that one because it takes 3/4" labels. For that marker I used a 3/4" strip for the rose name and a 1/2" strip for the specs. They fit perfectly and peel off easily if you need to remove it but hold up in the weather well. The tapes aren't cheap about $14 each (search for the cheapest w/shipping.) I used 2 tapes plus the one that came with it (half-tape) to do about 70 labels, including a lot of mess-ups. I kept thinking I was doing something wrong when it kept printing in a smaller font. What I didn't know was that is automatically changes the font size if you go over the character count that fits in your space. But they don't tell you that or what the count is. So on 'large' you can only do something like 16 (I forget) characters, then it switches to 'normal'. I was trying to spend as little as possible, so maybe a more expensive model would be more flexible with the fonts. I was disappointed with that part. I used the Extra-Strength TZ labels.

The zinc markers & stands bend easily (our dogs snag them all the time), but they bend back just as easily. I like them. The neatest thing is that people were more impressed with the markers than they were the roses - at least my roses. They thought it was cool to see all the names!

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: Paw Paw Everlast Labels

Sherry, thank you so much for the marker info. They look great, and I can see why visitors to your garden would comment favorably on them.

Lisa, your 'Archduke Charles' is really nice. Like having two roses in one!

Randy

Sammy,

I'm glad you reported about how your no-spray garden is coming along: I think it's such a worthwhile cause! It's good to know you're sticking with the project. Good luck!

Our garden has been various depressing shades of gray and brown since before I came back from Florida in early September, only recently greening somewhat with the late fall rain. A little while ago I looked at pictures a gardening friend's brother-in-law shot of the garden when it was in its glory in May, and I was almost shocked: I had forgotten how luxuriant and how loaded with flowers it was then. If I hadn't known it was my own garden, I would have been green with envy.
Moral? Everyone's garden is homely some time; that's just not when most people photograph them. Your pics are fine.

Melissa

*** that's just not when most people photograph them.

Great point!

Sherry

I just love Archduke Charles.

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Clair Matin is also pretty showy.

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I thought I should put in a couple of pretty pictures considering that my ugly winter garden has been seen 239 times according to Picture Trail. It will look pretty with the Christmas lights very soon.

I will respond more after school tomorrow. I also use the Paw Paw Everlast labels, but write on them with a wax pencil.

Sammy

Oh, Sammy, Archduke Charles is coming home with me next weekend. Can't wait! Love your Clair Matin - so nice and bushy. I've heard it does well here, too.

Sherry

Sammy, if it will make you feel any better, I can take a photo of my garden right now :-). Gingers frozen and collapsed on top of other plants, dead perennials that I haven't had time to cut back, freeze dried blooms hanging on roses whose leaves are ratty.....It's just that time of year. Even so, I find some beauty in the mess and I know that you do too. Your CM is a beauty. Jean has that rose and I've always admired it. AC was one of my favorites but I lost it to RRD two years ago.

Carol

I am really interested in the roses that bring all of you success, especially success against black spot. My wish list is huge, and I am hoping to work backwards and see old threads rather than to post all the roses on my list.

Do you think that the most winter hardy roses are hybrid musk, china, tea, noisette, in that order from most to least hardy? I know that someone mentioned once that many of these roses don't go dormant, and I don't know why they survive our winter, but they have been doing that.

My bigger question is: do you think it is a good idea to use some roses from each of the groups?

Sammy

My success is defined as it lives from year to year, and has at least some periods of full leaves and flowering. It does take a number of years to settle in, and I find performance improves as the root ball gets bigger. I'm not sure if they get healthier with time, but the recovery from defoliation seems faster. Some, like Eugene de Beauharnais are poised at the edge of the shovel, and earn a reprieve with a new flush. Crimson Glory can lose its leaves, but rewards my patience with incredibly scented blooms, especially in the fall and spring. I agree with your hardiness order, and I grow all 4 groups here in borderline zone 7 conditions. I think your approach is good, and all you can do is try them out and see how they perform. I have found Bayse's Blueberry performs well, including keeping its leaves in the summer. A surprise performer is Toulouse Lautrec (yellow), which is about 35% black spotted in the summer, but very healthy and blooms well. Also it is one of my best cut flowers for vase life, and fragrance. All of my chinas are survivors, and among the best is Cramoisi Superieur. I moved it to full, all day sun, and it has done great. Louis Phillipe is right there with it.

jbcarr, I am pleased to see what you have to say about Basye's Blueberry. I have 3 of them, and two of them had a bacterial infection, so I cut them way back this year. All three seemed to lose the fight against black spot, but possibly it was because of the other condition, and the severe pruning.

I have discarded so many roses, that some must wait. I agree that Cramoisi Superieur is a great rose. I have it beside Monsieur Tillier, and Duchesse du Brabant. Unfortunately I have Lady Hillingdon beside Mrs. Dudley Cross and Topaz Jewel. The last three are almost invisible because of the larger roses. I have decided to create a path towards them, and maybe even put in a bench as opposed to trying to move them. I don't think my husband would ever move Topaz Jewel again. That is a thorny rose.

Sammy