You might get better suggestions if you took photos of the spots you want to landscape and provide exposure information; whether it's morning, afternoon, etc., and how many hours roughly during the growing season. How large do you want them to eventually grow? If you're thinking of three foot plants, most of the Teas might be unsuitable due to their eventual size, the size they WANT to be to perform as you expect them to. Show everyone what the positions look like and what you have to work with and I think you'll be very pleased with the suggestions. Kim

My curiosity is mostly in how some people have approached their foundation plantings when using roses. Looking for some fresh ideas....

I've actually been growing old roses for many, many years, so am pretty familiar with the growth habits of the teas, chinas, noisettes, and hybrid musks. I do feel some of the "smaller" teas such as Madame Antoine Mari would be fine size wise, but chinas like Archduke Charles can for sure be kept pruned to four or five feet and not resent it.

As mentioned above, the side of the house I am starting on is the east side, which has more than adequate sun for any of these roses, during all seasons.

I am not comfortable posting pictures of my home on the internet, but hopefully that shouldn't stop hearing about ideas or combinations that have worked for someone else. I haven't posted in quite a while so perhaps the current type of rose interest isn't so much in foundation plantings, but more in a garden setting.

I've never liked 'foreground' (read: attention-getting) plants planted in masses. For narrow edging hedges I think subtle plants like box and lavender are best. Otherwise I mix my roses, getting variety from planting different varieties, while achieving unity by planting roses of similar type together, for example, Teas and Chinas in one area, Gallicas-Centifolia-Damasks-Mosses in another. I also like other shrubs mixed in with my roses, as well as plenty of perennials, bulbs, self-seeding annuals. This style of planting gives me plenty to look at at every season of the year, and, in case you're wondering, it doesn't look chaotic or meaningless.
A rough rule is, the larger a plant is, the fewer of it are needed to make an effect. Another of my personal guidelines is that even small gardens should have some large plants, at least, large in relationship to the size of the garden. Big shrubs, climbers, and trees give a sense of generosity and abundance, and they provide scale.
Much of the sense of order in my garden comes from clearly defined volumes and spaces. As far as Mother Nature will consent to cooperate (gardening in my conditions is an uphill battle much of the time), I make my beds big, tall, and full; while I have wide paths and clearings. Plants go in scale and height from inch-tall herbaceous creepers to my 25' rose 'Treasure Trove' climbing a mature black locust. All the plans have their role in the recitation.

I see I've wandered away from foundation plantings, which need to be in scale with the house, of course. Well, perhaps there's a constructive idea here somewhere, so I'll leave it. Good luck in your project!

Melissa

Sandy, more and more I adore Souv de la Malmaison. Two of mine are 3 years old and still not 4' tall. They're kind of wider than they are tall. The foliage is deep green and mostly plentiful except, of course, for short periods as they cycle through blooms. To me it's almost as hedgy/shrubby as a viburnum or ligustrum but with gorgeous blooms and without the height. Mine get lots of sun all day so I can't speak to morning shade, but they're tough and show no black spot except during their short stage of recycling and then it's just old leaves dropping. It really is bulletproof and beautiful.

I've also been impressed with Souv de St Anne's.

Personally, I wouldn't do Chinas as foundations because mine tend to be poorly leafed.

Also, for Teas Souv de Francois Gaulain and Enchantress are very bushy, leafy, healthy, short plants. Both with small magenta flowers. I would think they'd be great for your situation. Again I don't know about morning shade, but they are totally disease proof and you can't tell they're in recycling mode at all.

Clotilde Soupert is a lovely bush normally with lots of bloom. This year with our lack of rain in the last couple of months they were a little scragly and not as well leafed, but she's leafing out well now and blooming. She's fragrant, too. Another polyantha that I've been impressed with is Leonie Lamesch. Healthy pretty leaves. She's not as small as they say. Mine is throwing 5' canes. Very sweet flowers. Lauren and Sweet Chariot are fairly small - 3x3. I have them in pots though.

I was recently a Starry Night that's very nice. Fairly small, healthy with single white flowers.

Glad to hear you're rolling with roses again!

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Sandy, one of the most beautifully foliaged bushes in my landscape is the china Ducher. It's round and full and gorgeous and not too large - about 4ft.

Sherry is right about SDLM. It also makes a lovely shrub with beautiful foliage - it grows a bit larger than Ducher at my house.

Another rose that makes a nice mid-size shrub is the polyantha Marie Daly. It's not quite as full-foliaged as the other two in my garden, but it's very attractive and about the same height as SDLM.

And finally, not an OGR, but about the size of Ducher and constantly in bloom -- you might want to try the floribunda Valentine. I gave one to my daughter because I knew it was foolproof and small enough and attractive enough to use by her front door. (Not fragrant, but it's a blooming machine.) Now she has discovered that she can grow roses. : )

If you like red and white, you could use both Ducher and Valentine. Or mix in some of the pinks I mentioned. I'm sure there are others in the 4-5ft range - if that's what you need, but these are the ones that come to mind. I hope it helps. Lou

I planted a rugosa hybrid Sarah van fleet by the computer room window. It grows about 6 ft tall and keeps all its leaves all summer in spite of my not watering it. DH likes that it has lots of thorns, kind of like barbed wire.
I like that the rose fragrance drifts in through the window when it's in full bloom.

Thanks Melissa, Sherry, and Lou, (and Kim, of coarse). All are good ideas...I really like the idea of mixing things up a bit. I'm also all for a few other shrubs and of coarse trees, some native shrubs, and camellias. My husband is really against the idea of all the same shrub or roses all across the front (too "suburban" he says). I like a cottage look better anyway. A cottage look takes skill to put together nicely though!

Ducher would be striking mingled with other colors. I love valentine, but it did get blackspot when I grew it at our other house. I'm going to get one Valentine from ARE and try it in this area to see how it does. It's such a pretty rose. It may be happier here as we don't stay as humid all the time as we did living two hours south of here. We still get very hot in the summer, but the humidity seems to move more. Mystic Beauty is supposed to be as good as SDLM without the balling problem.

I'm not going to put any roses in the morning shade area behind the house...rather I would put some other low growing shrubs there with perhaps a beautiful rose planting nearby but in full sun. Something that can be viewed from the porch. I've tried the shade thing and it doesn't work very well for roses. The front of the house however has a good dose of easterly sun and doesn't shade out till late afternoon.

Yes Sherry, I'm planting some roses again, but I'm not as obsessed about them anymore. I have my favorite roses but I like camellias just as well, and I've been having such fun planting fruit trees, native pines, and native hollies.

The few little Satsuma oranges I ate from my little tree were divine. They are planted near the house on the south side and I'm going to protect the trunks with insulating material and put Christmas lights on them when we start getting frosts. Wish me luch with my Meyer Lemon and Dorsett grapefruit tree! The grapefruit is hardy down to 20 degrees F and the Kumquat I think is a little hardier than that. The Meyer lemon is the touchiest.I plan on a greenhouse in the next year or so, so I can always grow lemons in containers and move them into a greenhouse during the winter if I need to. The fruit trees have actually become part of my landscaping, and I can see some roses planted among them. I found some low chill apples, pears, peaches, and plum trees suited to this area. There are sweet persimmons that do well here. And of coarse I've planted a couple fig trees. Blueberries and Muscadine grapes are planned for spring planting.

I love the idea of roses mixed in with this whole concoction I have going. I'm thinking own root teas like G. Nabonnand, Mrs. Dudley Cross, Duchesse de Barbant, and Madame Antoine Mari should stay reasonable in size for me for the foundation area, as well. With the exception of the Duchesse they are fairly rounded.

One tribute to the china Archduke Charles is that he is quite a survivor. My husband mowed him down twice with the tractor and he still kept coming back. I finally dug the poor fella up and put him in a pot so I can move him. Which leads me to think he might be happy somewhere along the foundation. Hmmm.....maybe he would look nice grouped in a spot with Ducher? I found that the chinas stay leafy if they get lots of water. When I don't water they drop most of their leaves, but they grow back quickly if given a nice long cool drink.

We're still working on our house....much labor involved with all the wood inside. We should be in by January though....I can't wait! We're our own contractor so it's been nice not dealing with a builder this time around, (wonderful in fact) but a ton of work.

Sandy

Sandy, not a rose suggestion, but see if you have a local source for leucophyllum, Texas Ranger, Green Cloud and Silver Cloud are common names. Natives to Texas and the desert South West, they want decent drainage; can withstand triple digit heat for eons; will flower as long as it's hot and they have some water, and seem to have NO pests nor diseases. They're slow growers and can be sheared like any hedging material or allowed to do their thing. If they get rangy, you can mow them to the ground and they sprout back. They've been wonderful here and all the way into the Antelope Valley (and farther inland) where it frequently freezes HARD (teens and twenties). You can have some beautiful color, no care, low water needs that loves high heat with some really nice texture. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Leucophyllum

Kim, I just love your taste! I was just about to discuss my foundation plantings, and I have 4 leucophyllums playing major roles :)

Also, my favorite front-of-my-border plant is Morey's Pink :D Thank you for that one!

OK, so, I have a very old cottage with boxwoods that are older than my father. Those are my backdrop. They are probably taller than you are thinking, so I started with a tall, dark background. The roses used would change if the scene were shorter.

I have a kind of arching row of tall roses on each side of a centered front porch.

Then I have a row (but more random looking than 'row' implies) of midsize roses, with much more room between them.

Finally, I have the front row roses, like Morey's Pink. They don't form a solid tumble of roses like the back row, either.

--BOXWOODS--
--Tall Roses-- (completely roses, although I hope to see if lilies will poke through).
--Middle Roses-- mixed with evergreens and perennials
--Front Row roses-- in between the evergreens (which take up 2 rows) with herbs like sage anchoring them in winter.

I let the Tall Roses tumble into each other.

I make sure the Middle Roses have nice forms by themselves. They appear separated from each other, with contrasting plants in between.

The Front Roses are mostly tumbly, actually, but the evergreens I use have forms that act as broken edging. I've played with the idea of using a miniature box hedge or something, but so far, I like my sage and santolina, etc, better.

It's hot enough here that I can take care of different water needs by what soil I use in the planting hole. My herbs grow nicely beside my short roses, but I do let them dry out more, which may be a problem in some climates.

I hope that all made sense, lol.

Thank you Meredith! I'm glad you have both the Leucophyllums and Morey's Pink! I love them both and have both in my garden. Your plant combinations sound quite interesting. You might also take a look at a very old hedging plant that can be tortured severely or allowed its freedom...Myrtus Communis Compacta, (Dwarf Myrtle) either traditional or variegated. The sixty year old ones out back are enormous, loaded with dark blue berries which aren't poisonous nor do they stain hardscape. Another "whip me, beat me" plant that requires very little and lives virtually forever. Left alone, it builds to an evergreen, dense, deep green solid that will pave itself with white puff flowers followed by dense, deep blue berries. You can keep it six inches tall forever, shear it into topiary shapes, continually torturing it or hedge it as you would box wood. The foliage smells wonderful and you've probably smelled it in some of your favorite shampoos as it's been used as an herbal hair rinse for dark hair for generations.

I like to use them to anchor other plantings, giving them dark points to accent lighter, brighter ones. They're very soft and with that wonderful fragrance, are really nice where you can brush against them, releasing their scent to enjoy as you pass. It's one of the rare plants you can chop into thick, old wood and it explodes into growth to cover the bare spots. They might be interesting to add more contrast and texture to the landscape you've described. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Dwarf Myrtle

When I was at the Antique Rose Emporium (the one in Independence, TX) a few weeks ago, I greatly admired a section of their mixed border containing the leucophyllum mentioned by Kim with a raspberry colored salvia greggii planted next to a shorter white rose. I couldn't find a name tag for the rose, but I thought it looked very much like Little White Pet. The rose's buds were touched with pinkish red before opening to white flowers, and the salvia greggii accented the extra color on the rose buds.

Also at ARE, is the border near the chapel with the older hybrid tea Lafter and the Austin rose Graham Thomas, which I think is a pretty combination. They have also planted Mexican cigar plant (cuphea micropetala) with the roses, but it only blooms in the fall.

I like the combination of apricot colored roses with crimson colored ones. In the past, I have grown Lady Hillingdon next to Madame Antoine Rebe with salvia Indigo Spires. Here in the Houston area I grow the slightly smaller Mystic Spires sage instead, but it still grows large enough to require cutting back several times a year.

Another combination that I really like is McClinton Tea planted next to Cramoisi Superieur (mine came from ARE), although the two plants do have different shapes. Both of these are quite fragrant to my nose. They stay quite healthy in half a day of shade here, although CS doesn't have as many leaves or quite as many flowers as when I grew it in full sun in the Dallas area.

I have a newish tea rose bed that contains Comtesse du Cayla, Souvenir de Germain de Saint-Pierre and Miss Atwood with a short blue sage and tall white zinnias. Comtesse du Cayla can crisp in the summer, so I planted her in the shadier side of the bed where her foliage stays healthy in spite of less sun. Miss Atwood produces more flowers than the others, probably because she is about a year older and has the sunniest side of the bed.

I remember seeing a photo online some time ago with another lovely combination - a pink rose (I think it was the Austin rose Scepter'd Isle) growing next to John Fanick phlox. My John Fanick phlox blooms all summer (in fact there are a few blooms still on mine), and after the first year it grew to about three feet tall.

Have fun planning your new beds.

Kathy

You can find different varieties of the Cuphea around, and in my climate, I haven't found one yet which didn't flower year round. Cuphea llavea, or Bat Faced Cuphea, is scarlet and violet, much in the mold of Voodoo Fuchsia. These, and False Mexican Heather, will freeze to the ground in harder frosts, but here, will explode back into growth as soon as it warms and once established, are quite drought tolerant. You can often find hybrids in the Proven Winners selections and they've been quite nice around these parts. I'd expect many would do acceptably for you. See if you can find the lower growing selections of the Cigar Plant as they are nice fillers to cover the ground, add texture and color among the roses and seem totally pest and disease free around here. There are also hybrids of the Cigar Plant in different colors.

The Salvia greggii varieties are wonderful garden plants! If gophers or rabbits are issues, they are virtually immune to them and will flower any time there is any heat. They are usually extremely frost hardy and usually only require shearing to the ground before the first warmth of spring. If happy, they can self seed, providing you with new babies to spread around or share. Sometimes, you'll find a natural hybrid which can be quite pleasant.

You might also see if Russelia equisetiformis, Firecracker Plant, is available near you. I can also freeze back, but has come back in these parts to explode into growth when it warms. It isn't as "miffy" as it can be made to sound. Hummingbirds are as addicted to it as they are the salvias. It's available here in a moonlight yellow and a coral pink as well as the brilliant red. All are glorious spilling out of urns, baskets and over walls.

Here is a link that might be useful: Russelia equisetiformis