Don't really know about corn gluten, but since it serves as a pre-emergent I would think it would not affect established plants.

Best to just mulch them. I mulch my onions every year with a thick layer of hay (after they are about a foot tall). They seem to love it, plus no weeds & minimal watering!

TomNJ

on the organic forum there were replies that make me think that the corn gluten is not all that good to use.

now i am surprised to read that you do mulch your onions, i thought that was not a good thing to do!

1. how many years have you grown onions without mulching and how many years have you grown onions where you mulched?

2. how thick a layer of hay do you use?

3. are your bulbs are the same size for the same varieties as when you did not mulch as when you do mulch?

4. hay has TONS of seeds in it, doesn't that just add to the problem when you then use that area next year for something else?

i could use straw as i mulch tomatoes with it but straw costs $9 or more for a bale. did you ever consider shredded leaves? they are free in the fall and i have several dump truck loads out there.

i have a nice clean bed today but the crab grass seeds are still there and the stuff i weeded often the roots would break so i expect the crab grass to return shortly. so i need to do something, mulching seemed the best solution vs have to hoe and weed for the next 2+ months every 2 weeks!

i'd appreciate in hearing your answers. if i can mulch onions this is great news as i hate weeding them. they are planted 6" on center which is plenty adequate for good bulb size. unfortunately, my stirrup hoe is 6" wide so i can't use it. i went to several stores and NO ONE sells a hoe that is less than 6" wide except for a pointed hoe (i think they are called an onion hoe) and i have one, it's what i used to hoe. so i was thinking do i have to now plant 8" on center just to be able to use my stirrup hoe next year but that means i need to expand the space allocated for onions which i did not want to do.

in the past, i had regular weed problems. this mess, a solid carpet of crab grass, never happened. i now think getting shredded leaves is BS as it imports a lot of weeds into the garden. i don't have any trees except that grow in the woods around me. i don't have to rake leaves which is good but now i am at the mercy of whatever crap comes in those leaves! this may have really ruined the garden as crab grass just carpets the garden. i'm seeing it in walkways where i tilled leaves into the garden last fall so this problem may now exist everywhere.

thanks,

tom

Hi Tom,

I have been growing onions on a small scale in my veggie garden for over 30 years, and have always mulched them, so I can't make comparisons to unmulched onions. I use spoiled feed hay and never have a seed problem - I think the spoiling process (moisture and some mold) renders the hay seeds infertile. Only once did I use unspoiled hay, and that year had lots of hay seeds germinate.

Hay thickness starts at about 6" and collapses down to a couple of inches by the end of the season. It's enough to suppress all weeds and I rarely have to water. I pull the hay up to the onions but not over the bulbs, so the onion tops get full sun.

Dried grass clippings would work as well (dry them in thin layers to avoid matting). Chopped leaves should also work if chopped fine, but would probably be better if mixed with some grass clippings, straw, or hay to keep them from matting and help in their decomposition. Leaves are acidic and can rob nitrogen from the soil, so be sure to add limestone and blood meal if you turn them under at the end of the season.

Crab grass is an annual and the only way I know to deal with it once it's up (short of Weed-Be-Gone) is to smother it with a thick mulch. While I can't make relative comparisons between mulched and unmulched, I can say my mulched onions are large, healthy, and disease free.

Since your crab grass is established and is bound to come back, and onions hate weeds, you have nothing to lose by mulching at this point. Give it a try and if you like the results you'll never have a weed problem again. In fact I will mulch my onions this afternoon.

TomNJ

thanks tom. with 30 years experience you know onions! i've only been growing them about 10 years. so i have more questions if you don't mind shedding more light on your mulching.

where and how do you find spoiled hay? when you say "feed" hay is that different than some other type of hay? i've always assumed that hay is feed for horses and there was but 1 kind of hay, perhaps spoiled hay is the "other" type being that you can't feed it to animals?.

===>"Hay thickness starts at about 6" and collapses down to a couple of inches by the end of the season."

so you put 6" of hay around the onions all at once? when you say you are going to mulch them this afternoon, i get the impression that you add the hay periodically, not all at 1 time. also it sounds like you plant your onions in a row? i can see you putting 6" of hay on either side of a 1 or 2 plant wide row. do you grow in a row or a block? if in a row how many plants wide is the row? i'm trying to understand your method.

i grow mine in a block 4' wide by 10' or 12' long 6" on center. so i have 7 or 8 rows, 10' or 12' long, all in 1 block. my plants are about 6-7" tall now. i was thinking of sprinkling on an 1" of straw to start and then adding more straw as it packs down. it seems that if i put 6" of straw (or anything) into this block of onions it would just bury them.

===>"I pull the hay up to the onions but not over the bulbs, so the onion tops get full sun."

at this time there are no bulbs, any straw or hay would cover the base of the plants. the onion tops you refer to is the part of the onion where the green stalk meets the onion bulb correct?

thanks for answering my questions. i must find a way to deal with this mess and i like the mulching idea. it works fine with my garlic and i have very few weeds but onions are not garlic... this is where i thought i read that you should not mulch onions. obviously that is not correct as you have mulched your onions for 30 years. this is great to hear as now i know mulching onions is ok to do, if it was not you'd have found out by now!

thanks for the info you are giving to me, i really appreciate it!

tom

Hi Tom,

I'm certainly not an onion expert. Yes I have grown them for about 35 years, but for most of those years not well :-) Up until about five years ago I only grew about 40' of onions, just enough for my batches of salsa that I can every year. I started from seed and transplanted in April, but the onions were generally small. In recent years I began reading more, planting more, buying the right varieties of onion plants, getting soil analyses, and boosting the nitrogen during the spring. Now my onions are properly large. The common factors over the years was compost and mulch.

Feed hay is any type that is suitable for feeding to horses, usually timothy hay. Spoiled hay is bales of hay that have gotten wet, are usually moldy, and are no longer suitable as feed. Spoiled hay is cheaper, usually $2-4/bale depending where you are, and is sometimes sold as "mulch hay". I use the term "feed hay" to distinguish it from salt hay or straw. I get mine at a local horse supply farm - one bale covers about 100 sq ft.

I have two onion beds (blocks), each having 6 rows that are 10' long and 12" apart, with onions planted 6" on center (120 onion plants per bed). This way I can kneel just outside the bed and be able to reach the center (I'm 6'4" tall). I wait until the onions are about a foot tall before mulching as it is easy to damage or bury smaller plants when putting down the hay. I apply the hay mulch all at once by pulling a good handful from the bale and gently tucking it between the rows and up against the plants, leaving the green leaves exposed to sunlight. The plants are delicate so this must be done carefully, and wear a dust mask when handling spoiled hay. I suppose you can mulch in stages, but it's more work and increases the chance of damage. Now if you apply grass clippings or a finely chopped hay, mulching in stages would be fine.

As the onions start bulbing, the hay is compressed down to a couple of inches and I pull it up to but not on top of the bulbs, thus leaving the bulb tops exposed to the sun.

In your situation, you can wait until the plants are a good foot tall to mulch, but then will likely have to weed again before applying. Or you can apply a couple of inches of grass clippings or other fine organic mulch now to suppress the crab grass, and then finish mulching with hay when the plants are stronger.

Feel free to ask questions Tom, or if you prefer you can give me a call (732 721 4750).

TomNJ

This year Im trying embossed black plastic mulch with my onions. $64 for a 4 x 2,400ft roll from an online store. One roll should last me a very long time! Installing was a simple yet labor intensive task. Till the garden up so its nice and fluffy and dig 2 trenches 6" deep. Place some drip tape or soaker hose along the row. Then lay the plastic down in the ditches and cover the edges with soil.

Here are some photos of my results.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/odalaigh/3500197701/

tomnj,

i'd like to talk... when is a good time for me to call you so i don't interfere with your plans?

tom

HEY Tom I'am suprised that crab grass would grow in them rocks in ct.Ha Ha!! I used to mulch my onions with fresh grass clippings when I lived in Ohio.I got the clippings from my son who fertilized the heck out of his yard and the onions did great!I have 5 candy onions left from last yrs. crop and then I'am going to have to eat store bought.The snow finally melted and the last of April I got 4 bundles from Dixondale planted. The weather guesser said 32 and snow showers tonight so I will wait a while to plant tomatos.When your onions are gone I would give that crab grass a drink of roundup!Keep us posted on how you make out with your crab grass. YOPPER

Hi Tom,

Since I am retired and my garden is fully in as of this afternoon, I'm pretty much free anytime between 9 AM and 9 PM. Just give a call when convenient for you, and if I'm not in leave a message and I'll return it.

Just finished planting out 34 tomatoes, 10 peppers, 6 eggplant, and some herbs, and hay mulched 600 sq ft. Now I'm dragging my tired bones off to the movies!

Tom

===>HEY Tom I'am suprised that crab grass would grow in them rocks in ct.

we have special crab grass from hell, it'll grow on asphalt!

====>I have 5 candy onions left from last yrs.

that's quite a testament to the storage capacity of candy! you need to plant more or eat less! i have about 3-4 pounds of red wing and 6-7 pounds of copra left. i doubt that'll last until august.

====>The snow finally melted and the last of April I got 4 bundles from Dixondale planted. The weather guesser said 32 and snow showers tonight so I will wait a while to plant tomatos.

wow that's hard to believe! i love winter and trust me i hate to see it end. come late february i'm unhappy and by march i'm really depressed. but after a month i realize that winter is over and it's time to focus on spring. like now, i put out broccoli and swiss chard today. everything is totally green here and all the trees have leafed out. while a frost is possible to the end of may, it is not likely. temps in the day in the mid 40's would be cold now, snow is pretty much over tho a flurry could happen it is not likely. as much as i love winter and the cold, i can't imagine having snow on the ground in late april!

====>When your onions are gone I would give that crab grass a drink of roundup!

the problem is the seed is in the compost that i added or is blowing in from the hay growing around the fence. i may roundup the fence grass even tho i never have. being organic i would never use it in the garden. even using it around the border of the garden gives me the creeps!

tom

====>Just finished planting out 34 tomatoes, 10 peppers, 6 eggplant, and some herbs, and hay mulched 600 sq ft. Now I'm dragging my tired bones off to the movies!

wow that's a ton of work! i'd be dragging my tired body to bed at 7 pm!

i'll call tomorrow if i remember, i probably will.

tom

Johnny's Selected Seeds has a 3 1/4 inch Stirrup hoe. Red