Don't skimp on soil. I saw all the jugs and my bag of soil, which the nursery had to pry off of the frozen pile for me to even get in the first place, and skimped. Two cyclical problems: (1) Not enough soil to hold moisture for good moist germinating environment, and (2) Too much air volume so some containers never really got good moisture. They still germinated, but it would be much less stressful if I didn't have to worry about water levels every day, even before the temps warm up. So next year, more soil and less air volume=happy gardener and seeds.

Next, be more diligent about getting slugs out. Saw a couple last week in my jugs thought, "Big deal," and now quite a few jugs have fewer seedlings. Why did I think, "Big deal?" Because I'm just that new to gardening. New=stupid sometimes.

Also, going along with my first point, some of my jugs were cut too close to the bottom. That meant I couldn't put enough soil in. Now all my cuts are higher up. Also, buy my soil before the pile of bags freeze together at the nursery.

I didn't cover any of my seeds. Well, almost none. One of the first jugs I sowed was flax and I covered it. Later that day I read that flax needs light. Murphy's Law strikes again. So, I stopped covering any of them. Next year I'll do pretty much the same thing except for some of the big seeds. I think my big seeds would have benefited from some soil cover.

I covered my flax seeds and they did just fine. In fact, I already have them planted out.

I second the not-enough-soil-in-container situation. I thought I was putting enough in but apparently it compressed more than I had anticipated. I am having big issues with my containers drying out really quickly. I can make newspaper pots that fit exactly in a half gallon milk jug, so I sowed things like poppies and my herbs in them so I could just plop the hole thing in the ground but they are drying out super quick so I'm not getting great germination.

I also learned almost 300 jugs is not nearly enough. Will have to do several hundred more next winter!

I also learned that trying to move to a new house and plant trees, and prepare a 100'x35' garden and remove the sod, and making multiple flower beds, and making rain barrel units, and dealing with septic motors not working, and getting the yard mowed, and on and on and on, oh yeah and keeping tabs on my jugs, and move all my plants from the old house to the new. . . I learned I should move in the fall.

Well, bookjunky4life, this fall I look forward to reading about where you'll be moving to. Just kidding! I think you need some 32 hour days there.

My flax are not doing well. I have little germination. I'm not giving up as there is still plenty of time, but I'm wondering what my final results will be. I must have really buried them well! One jug has about 4 seeds with healthy true leaves, then just a few new seedlings. Hopefully not having as much light just means they'll take a little longer.

I only use tape on milk jugs for those items that need to get out in the real cold start of feb , becuase we can have some serious snow 80-100 inches still in a very bad year, tape is needed so the tops dont shift..

after snow melts or if its late march early april.. I dont do any tape either.. too much work again, its not needed

Ac moore and micheals have paint pens for about 2 bucks, I get a industrial one used on welders at work for about 4, but its twice as big, and heck its here at work..

What Ive learned after my 5-6th year doing this? Dont fret the failures.. I know I wanted them, especially those I paid big bucks to get, but it happens, it took me years on some just to get something, this is my 4th year doing flat sea holly and low and behold, I actually have some sprouts this year! LOL.. I usually have so much stuff I end up geving away stuff I thought I needed becuase you just end up out of room.

same here - soil drying out. I have been using all different types of soil (for seeds only) depending which store I visited. I've noticed, MG for seeds seems to be the worst (drying wise). Here some of my lessons I hope to follow next year:

Lesson #1 - make notes, now I would know which soil is the best and which one to avoid

Lesson #2 - do not use big trays, lasagna - type. I know, some of you love them, I don't

Lesson #3 - avoid like a plaque jiffy containers - these are constantly dry

Lesson #4 - stick to the rules: perennials, hardy annuals, etc. veggies. Didn't loose anything but there is still long way to transplant many of them

Lesson #5 - sow in individual cups, put cups in large storage containers. I have four of those, hopefully next year I'll use only that method. It's much easier to open only one container than 40-50 small ones.

Lesson #6 - do not use shallow containers (Chinese take outs, etc) - not enough room for soil (drying) not enough room for seedlings

I guess, that's it for now. I'm sure, by the end of the season there will be many many more "lessons" - the only hope, I'll learn.

Next year I'll try to use all milk jugs -- they're just the easiest to deal with as far as cutting and carrying and they retain moisture very well.

I'll also get a paint pen -- the sharpies are fading fast.

I learned I don't like the round translucent cups from takeout soups.
In their favor, the snap-on lids are easy to open and close, and do hold enough soil. But - They are hard to cut without cracking. (I use a craft knife to cut mine, no power tools or burning holes for this klutz.) They taper towards the bottom so they tip over easily. The lids have a raised rim, so they collect moisture on top. I planted two and then decided to stick with milk jugs and clear juice bottles.

Use a paint pen, too hard on my back to bend down and pick up each jug and look at the labels w/clear tape wrapped around the handles. Or use a paint pen and tape on with packing tape so you can reuse the containers and not keep marking again.

Untaping a lot of jugs is a pain. If used, once around, probably need here in Jan, Feb and part of March. Am not confident to sow uncovered.

Agree about the soil depth but not a total lost cause.

Most of my various containers seem not a problem. I like the drained nursery flats with the clear Jiffy covers and deep cell 6 packs a lot.

Still like the 16 oz plastic cups but too much work to remove baggies and lids, then gets below freezing and put them on again, didn't even attempt it, am using throw rugs, a dirty tablecloth and improvising, didn't take too long actually.

Do not use vermiculite sprinkled lightly, not sure why, just that's where most of my no shows or little germination are but there are others. Use seed starter or soil that you can crumble finely, then mist instead or use the kitchen sprayer if yours works.

Thanks for the tip about the light, surface sow those but still there are problems with some. Also agree that covering with more soil the larger seeds is usually the best way to go.

Some aren't going to sprout no matter what you do, even fresher seeds.

I will not be using anything but 2 liter containers. I've had a lot of sprouts die off in the open containers in the hoophouse and in the styrofoam cups. They made it through cold and freezes, but the heat of the past week has killed them. It was above 90 three days in a row and no rain for more than a week. Even watering twice a day wasn't enough. The two liters, mostly came through okay.

Oh, and I won't be sowing more than 50. Guaranteed. I don't have the energy I had last year. And I still have hundreds to plant out.

What I won't do next year.....I won't buy any seeds (except the ones I see and just have to have). I won't do more than 20 containers (except for all the annuals and veggies) and I won't save any containers (except any that happen to come into my house). Yep, I think that just about covers it!

Use only the heating/ac foil tape. It is so easy to remove where the duct tape was a sticky mess removing especially in hot temperatures.

Plant only in milk jugs. That is where I've had my success. Only a few haven't germinated; maybe less than 6.

Buy several colors of paint pens. Some show up better than others. Number my milk jugs, large print, where it is quick and easy to locate that number. Cut mini-blind plant tags ahead of time, like in summer or early Fall, so they will be ready to go and will speed up the planting process.

Buy potting mix before the weather freezes it. It takes several days to thaw once it is frozen.

Learn to sow lightly so I don't have so much HOS.

Spray paint the brightly colored milk crates to match the color of house siding so they blend in and don't stick out like a sore thumb and won't be so obvious to neighbors.

Look up ahead of time, what seeds need light; what has to be covered. Have that information available so I don't have to stop and look it up when I'm sowing. Prepare my jugs ahead of time; making drainage holes, air/moisture holes so I don't have to stop and prepare the same day or evening that I plant. Find a more streamline way of cutting the milk jugs.

Order seeds in late Fall from seed companies. Watch for seed sales in late summer. Set a limit of how many perennials and how many annuals to sow. Learn how to prepare a spreadsheet by computer before WS starts. Decide ahead of time what information you want to include so it will speed up that process. Keep it simple!

Relax and enjoy this hobby!

I will not wintersow so many dandelions next year. My neighborhood is full now. (snicker)

This is a great thread!

You know, thanks to reading a lot on this forum and on ws.org, I feel like I did pretty well for a first-timer! :D The big thing I would change is, like many others, more soil in the containers. It is astounding how much it compresses!

I ended up really liking the styrofoam cups. It was a pain taping them up with plastic wrap, but when I got ready to open the tops it was just a matter of ripping the plastic wrap off.

But what I ended up loving was the large yogurt containers. I cut holes in the tops, leaving only enough lip to reattach, and topped them with plastic wrap before popping the lid back on. They seem to hold enough soil that drying out is not as much of an issue, and it was easy to poke drainage holes with a screwdriver.

I used a few plastic ziploc bags to top some of the styrofoam cups, and I agree, they're just messy and hard to see through. Wouldn't do that again.

I also liked using the green clear soda bottles. VERY easy to see seedlings through these! I felt like the seedlings in those grew more quickly, too. Prep was a little harder than the yogurt cups, though.

Next year I will get a sowing thingee-
to broadcast tiny seeds.

I don't like having bunches of seeds together and having to separate them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sowing tiny seeds

This is my second year and I tried various methods that people mentioned.
Did not care for: sweater bags or baggies on tops of cups.

We had such warm weather so early, I brought all 87 bottles onto my screened porch to keep on eye on them. Since they weren't getting the rain, I had to water and fret about them often. I'll try not to do that again.

Paint pen worked, but I bought it in gold (only color available at the time) and it was hard to see.

What worked:
The little paper folded cups - 4 fit to a milk carton. Easy to plant and the paper falls apart once in the ground.

I'm going to stick to milk cartons with the paper cups and 2 liter bottles. I'm going to try and find some milk crates to be able to organize the bottles.

I will not laugh when I see that Token has sown more than 50 containers...

LOL
I will remind Token of his vow to do only 50 next year when he hits 200 containers. And I WILL laugh. heheh. Love ya Token.

I will not use the grape/strawberry plastic containers..to many holes in them and they dry out to fast.

I will not use any tape. I will do the hole punch and wire closures on 2 sides.

Thinking about doing every thing in 3-4"" pots in bread trays w/ tuff lite greenhouse plastic as the covers.( to save the potting up step for the plant sale)

I'm serious. I planted so many reseeding things this and last year, I will never have to sow seeds again. Remember those 3 perilla plants I had last year? Yeah....

{{gwi:375879}}

I'm a newbie this year and am just still so amazed at how well WS works! So far, I have sprouts on 72 out of 84 containers.

Things I decided I won't do again next year:

1. Won't use any juice bottles such as Welch's grape juice bottles, or even small-ish apple cider jugs. The germination was much later in these containers, and they seemed to dry out too fast. The Welch's were also very hard to cut drainage holes in, and a drag to open and re-close. Also too tippy.

2. Won't use seed starting mix. I did some "soil experiments" with the same seed sowed at the same time, in the same kind of container; one sown in seed starting mix, and one sown in potting soil. Found I had much better & quicker germination with potting soil as opposed to seed starting mix. The seed starting mix also seems to dry out too quickly. Also, I had the best germination in some kind of potting soil I came across that had worm "castings"in it.

Things I will do:

1. Use more 2-liters! I really like how easy they have been to open and close, label, etc. Also love the milk jugs.

2. Collect milk jugs and 2-liters throughout the year.

3. Get potting soil before the fall/winter. Had a tough time finding potting soil in December!

I will not use cheap "potting soil" that is more like top soil than potting soil. Seeds that I was really looking forward to never germinated. As much as I want to save money, the disappointment is not worth it.

On the other hand, I WILL use a paint pen instead of a sharpie in the future. I am quite impressed with how well the paint pen ink holds up to the weather.

Lois in PA

I loved "gardenluvs"posting, I will follow her.To funny!
cAROL

next year I will only use pencil on mini blind slats. they are the labels that worked best for me this year. No more markers or paint pens. the pencil is cheap and easy to use.

Plus I have a plant marker to put in the garden so I know what I planted where.

I also will not use smaller cups. I used some this year and too much for me. I like sowing larger containers with more seeds.

I hope I will NOT sow to many pots next year...
(I doubt I will follow this one but I should)
Karen

This was my first year so I'm a newbie.

Although everyone in the neighborhood LOVES the hoop house ("it's sooo cute!"), Token is right about the heat gain. I put a thermometer inside the hoop house to monitor heat and humidity. On winter days, the temperature inside often soared into the 90s and higher. When I was home, I opened the ends but I work so am often not home. Many seeds didn't germinate, and seedlings got fried in Jan and Feb.

In early March, I removed all containers from the hoop house and covered them with floating row cover to protect against temperature extremes and wind. Although we had many freezing days and nights, they did fine under row cover.

Lynda's system worked great - seeds sown in 3" square pots in carrying trays (28 pots per tray), with the trays inside 2 mil bags. HOS is very easy with 3" pots. I also used gallon containers - they worked well and didn't dry out.

The 3" pots and gallon pots are easy to stack and fit into a small area. Lynda sent some 2 mil plastic bags that she used last year. I used them this year. They are in great shape for next year. The bags fold up neatly and don't take much room.

In the beginning, I used lots of 3 liter containers because I had an endless supply from the office. They worked fine, but they don't stack, so are difficult to store.

One thing I WILL do in the future is follow the advice of people who have more experience.

I will NOT sow so many darn seeds next year. Yea, right.

No small containers/cups of any sort, no plastic bags, no shallow containers, no sharpies, no strawberry containers. Seems like a lot of us had similar experiences! I think I'll use all gallon milk jugs. I'll set my max number of containers at 50. Did a little over 100 this year and it was too much.

One thing that I'll also do is be more selective. I was late in joining the party and did a lot of impulse buying of seeds. I'll also stay away from color mix seeds and order what I want in the color I want.

I also won't WS alyssum, poppies or any fast-growing, hardy annuals. I direct sowed some and it was much easier. I am getting cross-eyed planting out a million alyssum seedlings and poppy seedlings (especially since they need to go out really early and really tiny).

All in all, winter sowing is a blast and I've learned a lot. Thanks everyone!

Lisa

Well this was my first year and BOY am I a believer. I sowed about 430 containers and have about a 75% germination rate at this point. My experience was a little different than others I guess. It seems that the 12 ounce and 2 liter pop bottles worked the best for me. I am having problems with milk jugs germinating as well as getting them cleanly out of the container. I feared using the small 12 ounce bottles but they actually worked out great for me. I just keep them in a pan so I can keep them watered well. I used a paint pen ( worked great) and pipe cleaners that I attached after using a hole punch ( reusable next year) Woot!! I am so excited to see if I can get them into the yard without killing them or the puppy digging them up. Thanks to everyone who offered up their experience and guidence to help me take the leap into wintersowing. I think I am going to have a beautiful yard this year.

I am in a warmer zone. So my lessons probably apply to only me.
1. Plant only seeds that can be planted in the fall outside, germinate in the fall and over winter outside in 20 degree + winters. (or seeds that over winter and germinate when they choose to.)
1b. Soak seeds for 4 hours in 8 oz of water and a drop of bleach. Blot with paper towels and plant.
2. Buy seeds only from a commerical seed company for professionals. My favorite is Geoseed.com. They give a lot of seeds for a low price. So with low germination I still get a lot of plants. And shipping is $4. I hate being hit with huge shipping fees, hate it. They are for professionals but anyone can order from them, even one package. They do not have one picture in their catalog. I have to go to yahooorgoogle and search for an image. They are very, very nice people.
3. Maybe not necessary, but I will only buy seeds that are new to them. (They list them on the first page or so.) I think the seeds at many big box stores go back to the seed company and are recycled. I will never buy from a company that could recycle seeds again. I don't want to risk getting seeds that might be old.
4. Plant seeds in very straight lines and mark the seed lines so I can tell if it is a weed or my coveted new seedling.
5. Plant seeds in different places in the yard (microclimates make a difference).
6. Enhance the soil specifically where the seeds will be planted.
7. Plant in seeding squares maybe 2ft by 2 ft. in strict lines 2-3 inches apart. Plant seeds far enough apart that I can dig up the seedling to transplant without messing up other seedlings.
8. Rules don't apply to super easy to grow annuals like Marigolds.
9. I tested a lot of Marigolds this year. The super duds (seeds) were Burpee from HD. Never again.

I put alot of milk jugs on my picnic table, looked really neat up and out of the snow, until a big wind came along just as my jugs were starting to sprout. Won't do that again. Also planted over 200 jugs, Won't do that again, just to much work. Also put some of my jugs in the garden and they stayed too wet. Liked the milk jugs the best some of my smaller ones didn't germinate, dried out too quick. All exceptions I really like winter sowing, a much better success than growing inside!!

What will I do differently next year? That's easy!
I will pay attention when I'm labeling - I will pay attention when I'm labeling, etc., etc!!! I've found the verbascum; still don't know which poppies are which, or if some of those containers are scullcap, parsley or rose colored cosmos!!
I'll also use potting soil, instead of seed starting mix for the WS containers.
I am planning on a seedling/plant give-away for all my friends, relatives, co-workers, strangers in off the street,etc! Yes, give-away! The last thing I need at this point are more plants!! Between indoor sowing, Wsing, and reseeders, I have way too many. Instead of plants, I am telling everyone to bring me gallon milk jugs, two liter pop bottles, or any large plastic container in exchange! Hope this works, would be a great jumpstart on next years containers!

This was such a good post, I thought I would resurrect it, particularly for any newbies out there. I had looked it up because I was on my way to the hardware store and wanted to get the type of tape that was recommended (heating/ac foil tape). So far I have my potting soil bought and I am busy collecting seeds for exchanges.

deanna_in_nh,

By soil, you mean potting mix right? :)

Back around the middle of August I took a day off work, drove to a nearby (9 mi) nursery supply and bought 3 bales of Fafard Professional Growers mix. They're stacked inside my garage, ready to go for WS 2011! Neighbors are saving milk jugs for me so hopefully that will cut down on the frequency of my dumpster diving this winter. All my recycled labels are alphabetized -- something I got done sitting inside my garage one of those horrible, hot, humid summer days when it was too miserable to work out in the flowerbeds. The part I really don't have nailed down yet is which seeds to WS and which to push aside. I went WAY over the top last year & WS close to 500 jugs. Once they all started sprouting, I lost track of the days & everything else. Even with all the progress I made this year, I don't want to put myself or find myself in that spot again.
I will WS more annuals and use them to provide bright color right through the season. Alyssum & California poppies were AMAZING this year! A. 'Royal Carpet' is a blooming machine that needs only full sun and not much else. I didn't water them even once after planting and theyâÂÂre still blooming as I write this.
I will not turn my nose up at annuals or perennials that don't interest me because of their size/color/habit. I've learned more about gardening this year from all of you folks & after reading all the GW & WS posts than I have in the past 20 years of gardening.
Just on the chance I haven't said it before...THANK YOU ONE & ALL!

wow.. great thread. Thanks for bumping this one up. I just learned a few new things.

Yes, v1rtu0s1ty , I mean potting mix. You may have missed the earlier post where I graduated from Gardening Moron to Obscure Poppy Namer. That's quite a distance to come in just a year. But, I clearly played hookie when my imaginary prof covered the different names for...for..."growing mediums." Yes, potting mix!

Aaaaaaaaand, that brings up another thing. Last year I used a very rough mix designed more for bare-rooting. It had pretty nice sized pieces of peanut shells and bark in it. I did a mini-freak-out because i thought my tiny sweet little seeds would just sink right through it to the bottom. For later jugs I mixed something called "Moo Mix" in with it. Turns out the Moo Mix became thick and pasty while the rough mix settled beautifully, seeds floating nicely on top with a cooperative fluffy texture for their roots to grow. My rough mix gave me great germination and seedling growth. The jugs where I added some Moo Mix had fairly decent germination, but many of the seedlings couldn't survived the goo. So, this year I have bought another mix just for seeds (Mix Master, or something like that, recommended by my local nursery when they didn't have the right Pro-Mix), but I'm now more trusting of light and chunky soils if l I know they won't settle down like a hard pack of old oatmeal. Next year I'll get Pro-Mix. It is expensive u front, but I believe it goes a looooong way once you've watered and expanded the bale, according to what I've heard. That probably means it cost as much, maybe less, than other soils.

Naturally, last year in my fear of the large chunky stuff, I put some of my most expensive seeds in the goo. Murphy's Law never fails!