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Okay, we've ordered more Fun Jen Bok Choy and Maruba Santoh seed from Fedco. A phone call would be probably all it takes to find out if Kitizawa sells these varieties in larger packets but this gives us an excuse to try a new seed company. There are still quite a few Kitizawa varieties that we are anticipating but these 2 early greens have been absolutely delightful.

Kaisin Hakusai Fluffy Top Chinese Cabbage would have been another on the order list but Fedco doesn't carry it. All 3 are continuing to grow and look better with each passing day. They are still housed in a walk-thru tunnel but the last few days, it isn't protecting them from cold but from the danger of sunburn. The weather has turned off HOT after near record cold.

Disappointing after initially looking good is Blues, Hybrid Chinese Cabbage. We may be trying this under the wrong conditions and certainly, it could do well elsewhere. The Kekkyu Takana Mustard isn't as nice as what we usually grow and we will eat the Shuka Flowering Chinese Cabbage tonight, not because it appeals so much to us but because it has "flowered." Okay, so what had we expected it to do? Quite small plants, unfortunately.

I'm somewhat embarrassed to say that we forgot to plant the Hiroshimana Chinese Cabbage seed in the tunnel. It has gone into the garden however where it doesn't have the same level playing field. Wildly swinging temperatures can't be good for these tender greens altho' the seed we are ordering will need to produce plants that survive in our tough weather. We'll just see how it goes . . .

I am very pleased and wanted y'all to know. Hey, does anyone here know what "Santoh" means?

Steve

A phone call would be probably all it takes to find out if Kitizawa sells these varieties in larger packets but this gives us an excuse to try a new seed company.

Just try looking at their home page.

;)

Violet, I realize that proper storage should mean good germination rates for a number of years but a minimum of 4 ounces of seed from Kitizawa would be substantial for our one-half acre.

Perhaps, the seeding rate would be about the same as canola, which is raised around here on farms. With Kitizawa's minimum of 4 ounces - we'd be able to put in over 30,000 square feet!

Seed never goes quite as far in the garden as what one anticipates so we have ordered 1 ounce of one variety and 1/2 ounce of another from Fedco. Since the Kitizawa packets couldn't amount to 2 gram in weight, the ounce of Maruba Santoh will be about 15 packets.

1 packet = $3.25 (K), 1 ounce = $5.00 (F) The difference between a few dozen plants and a few thousand square feet.

BTW The Shuka Flowering Chinese Cabbage was delicious! My wife did a comparison with broccoli raab  which isnÂt fair. We'll save that seed quest for another time.

Steve

Please excuse me, that's "put in over 3,000 square feet" and "the difference between a few dozen plants and a few hundred square feet."

I should never try to work with numbers after a day out in the sun. Even now, I'm not so sure . . .

Sorry,

Steve

Hey again, "disorganized Asian greens amateur researcher" here.

Just wanted you folks to know about the September planting of some of the greens I tried this Spring.

Really, 3 of the 4 (Fun Jen bok choy, Maruba Santoh loose-head Chinese cabbage, and Shuka flowering Chinese cabbage), performed almost the same as they did in the tunnel during the Spring months. Blues Chinese cabbage is probably doing much the same, as well, but its development is being impaired now by cold night-time temperatures. This thread didn't carry into June when I could have noted how Blues plants developed into wonderful barrel Chinese cabbages. They just wonÂt have enuf time here from a September planting. ThatÂs a shame since IÂve never been successful in growing Chinese cabbage outdoors. This variety may well have worked if IÂd planted it in August.

Fun Jen and Maruba Santoh are the most remarkably tender greens and growing outdoors this time didnÂt change that a bit. They had no real pest damage but I canÂt imagine that the flea beetles would leave them alone if they were outdoors during May and June.

I was amazed that Shuka so quickly developed flowering stalks. Once again the plants were very small even by comparison to the gai lan and broccoli raab weÂve grown in the past. It would take a good deal of Shuka seed to produce more than a hat full of greens. Still, the flower stalks are very tasty and this is probably a good choice for those of us who like this sort of thing.

I should have planted the Kekkyu Takana mustard but the Spring experience was quite negative. We do have quite a few square feet in our usual heirloom Asian mustards. And, Mei Qing bok choy is once more doing really well.

And again . . . I forgot to plant the Kaisin Hakusai fluffy-top Chinese cabbage. Kaisin . . Raisin . . . maybe there is something about the name that just doesnÂt say "Asian greens" to me.

Next year, there will need to be a few more new and exciting varieties but this has been a rewarding experience. I am pleased to say that some of the above should be garden "regulars" for a long time.

Steve

Steve,

Did you eat the Shuka? Shuka is not grown for foilage. It is specifically grown for tender stems and flower buds (harvest before they open) which is the stage at which many Asians prefer to eat their greens. It's the tender crunch factor.

How do you like to prepare your Asian green dishes?

Violet, we did indeed enjoy the Shuka. I like your description of a "crunch factor."

My only criticism, if that's what it amounts to, is that the plants were so small. I'd hoped that they would grow larger in one or the other of the growing circumstances - Spring plastic tunnel or outdoors in the Fall. It might be very wise to buy bulk seed on this one just to cut down on the expense. A hybrid so saving seed may not work.

Nearly all our greens are stir-fried. (We even stir-fry lettuce. ;o) Varying the additions varies the dish.

Steve

> My only criticism...is that the plants were so small.

Just how small is Shuka?

Some sizes of various Yu Choy from Agrohaitai.

"Green 49" (could have been "Green 49 Improved") was about 6 inches tall. Harvest of secondary shoots is hardly worth the effort. All raw leaves taste good with cruchy texture.

"Green 80 Days" and "Elite 70 Days" were larger, aprox 6 to 12 inches tall. Harvest of secondary shoots is worth the effort. All leaves taste good with crunchy texture.

"Welcome" Hon Tsai Tai is larger still at aprox 12-18 inches. Harvest of secondary & tertiary shoots are worth the effort. Large leaves formed before the central shoot bolts don't taste all that good raw, but their purple petioles are huge with a celery texture and good taste. Leaves attached to bolting shoots have a different shape, are smaller, and do taste good when raw.

Agrohaitai, hmmm? I didn't even know about this Canadian seed company until that question regarding Korean veggies this Summer, Npthaskell. Wide, wide selection of some things. . .

Green 49 - 6 inches tall? - ouch! Better not have too many people showing up at the table . . .

Just looked at the last of the Shuka and can say that the flower shoots are only about nickel-size and the final 6 or 8 inches of the stems are not quite as large as a pencil. They were a bit crowded (yes, I know, some of the reason for the small size :o) and I don't remember if they were a little larger in the Spring tunnel but believe so.

I'm going to enjoy finishing up the Shuka and the Santoh but then what?? I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the current rain isn't followed by more hard frost.

Steve

Is Shuka a type of choi sum? Looks like it is part kai lan and part choi sum. Shame it is so small. Does look tasty though!

After all these years, I'm still confused by choy sum.

There really seem to be 2 species involved and the only way that the term makes sense is that it's a kitchen ingredient term, identifying Brassica varieties.

A "flowering vegetable," either a B. rapa or a B. napus, may be the best way to think of choy sum. But yes, there are others like kailaan.

In my limited, gardening experience, I have a choy sum from probably over 10 years of saving seed. It may have come from Evergreen, originally. It isn't small but the size of Shanghai-type bok choy and somewhat similar. I have kind of given up growing other varieties and those very small ones are B. napus, as best as I understand.

Steve

Yes i've been surprised by the purple choi sum and upon growing it i noticed the leaves were quite different but the taste is the same. The Shuka definitely looks quite different but tasty so i will give it a try and hope it grows in cooler climates. Your harvests must be quite exciting. :)

I'm not too sure about exciting, Bish Chan ッ.

Stir-fry has become an important part of my diet and it fits well with gardening. My emphasis is on bok choy and I don't have an ideal environment for greens because it's so dry here. Bok choy covers some bases.

Right now, the bok choy is only represented by a green Shanghai-type from ... (ready ?) Agrohaitai. Yes, I've ordered several times from them over the last 9 years. There were 3 or 4 types in the garden a few weeks ago. I also now grow Asian greens in a low tunnel inside my greenhouse during the winter.

Fedco's Maruba Santoh is also out there right now but I didn't have any of the ones mentioned for dinner tonight. Instead, DW stir-fried broccoli and snap peas with beef ...

I'm trying to think if I have any new hobbies in the last 9 years ... Ha! Does a tablet and a smart phone count?

ッ Steve

I'm the same with diet. I want to grow my own for my own health. Could buy the more popular ones and they do taste nice, just pesticide laden. Once my mouth went numb as it still had residues on it.

I've got a yellow leaf santoh pak choi out in the garden but it is still not warm enough for it to really get going and form a head.

I am tempted to get a mini tunnel for my garden, just even in summer my backyard doesn't get that much sun due to neighbouring trees so not sure if it will grow anything. I am sure some of the hardier japanese varieties will stay alive but not necessarily grow much.

Does maruba santoh have any kind of taste to it? I like choi sum and chinese mustard as they have a distinctive taste.

At least you worked out how to use tablets. I need my nephews and neices or mother to turn it on and off for me. lol

The tablet encourages me to be a lazyboy, in the recliner. The smartphone is difficult for fumbling digits to use ...

Maruba Santoh is the mildest green I grow, right there with lettuce, anyway. If you want a salad addition, it's a good choice.

I'm not sure that there's an international veggie forum ... or, a greens forum. I'll just mention a couple that I've been growing in recent years. They both make very tasty additions to soups. First, is Scotch kale which has taken more of important place in my garden but something I've eaten since I was a kid. More recently, I began to grow Portuguese kale. Last year, something new was escarole. Greens!

Steve

I harvest the Scotch kale right through the growing season. The young leaves are what I am interested in although the leaves are pretty good after winter and before the plants bolt.

Napa cabbage? I kinda gave up on those. Related above is some of my experience with the Blues variety. I found that I could only grow them protected by plastic film. A little too much bother ...

I grew collards once and don't really remember much about them. They didn't do well. Kailaan only grew well once out of 3 tries.

This Wild West environment is a little tough on greens. Someone once told me that there was a farm field of spinach not too far away so spinach must be an easy veggie for our gardens. I pointed out that it was not being grown for fresh harvest. The farmer was growing spinach for seed ... that isn't what most gardeners are hoping for when they grow greens ... seed.

Steve

I just realized that I asked all those years ago, "Hey, does anyone here know what "Santoh" means?"

Thank you Bish Chan for answering that question!

Steve

My maruba santoh bolted so i've started eating them. The stem is quite nice. You were spot on in saying they were like lettuce. It is very light and more tasteless than napa cabbage we get at the supermarket.

I'd probably only finish the seed and grow it at either end of the season when i can't grow much else. I was impressed with the ability to stand cool weather and it still grew quite well. I needed quite a few plants for one meal though as it literally all wilts down to nothing!

I had a prize one which was starting to look like a cabbage the way it splayed out but the it is a magnet for all sorts of pests and i think it might have cabbage root fly or something. Normally they wilt during the afternoon and i have to water them early and evening and they plump back up but this one i suspect has root damage. Shame as i was looking forward to harvesting the biggest and baddest one.

Will harvest the rest tomorrow so i get to eat them instead of the flea beetles and friends. Interesting thing is they seem to prefer that over the tatsoi and those in turn over my mustards. They take a lil bite of the mustard and move on.

I have already sown tokyo bekana and fun jen so i expect those will be similar. Looking forward to various mustards and choi sum.

What have you got growing? :)

I have seedlings of bok choy, choy sum and Asian mustard. But ... it's so hot, the seed didn't come up well. In another week or two, I'll be trying sowing seed of them all, again.

The bok choy from seed sown on May 17th has to go. The Maruba Santoh has already gone ... I don't know if there will be any more kailaan.

My escarole is still holding up. East meets West -- I have had escarole and kimchi ramen soup 3 times. I'm convinced, it's a good pairing!

I see some recipes for sauteed escarole with garlic and red pepper. They compliment the escarole. Seed went in at the same time as the other greens. I'm quite unfamiliar with this veggie but the escarole plants seem to be changing the last few days. No doubt, they will be bolting soon ... but, not just yet.

Any experience with growing an Asian amaranth that holds up well against summer heat?

Steve