No experience here with coir. I think it holds a lot of water though, doesn't it? Since you had issues with excess moisture... potting mix might be better choice.

But minnamouse I think I'd skip that osmocote. I'm no expert but I think that's some pretty strong stuff, maybe too strong for little seedlings. You can't dilute it, it's pelleted (19-6-12). As those potent pellets disolve on top of the container they might burn little baby roots and kill the seedlings. Seems like it would also discourage roots from sinking down to seek food and water. I'd definitely skip it.

Don't worry about ferts, really. Mother Nature has provided their meals within the cotyledon. After several true leaves, if you must, consider a weak solution of a mild liquid fert. If I used anything, I'd use something like a 10% solution of fish emulsion (5-1-1). If directions say 1Tblsp per gallon, I'd use 1/10 TBsp.

If you forget about ferts until they have a set or two of true leaves, I think you'll be happier with your results this year.

Here's a gallon jug of marigolds, no food, overdue for transplant.
{{gwi:343800}}

Karen

ms minna, since you had failures last year with peat, it might be best if you just stick to the suggestions in FAQs and sow like the rest of us in a good quality potting medium, one sold for growing plants in containers. It works. With adequate drainage holes and ventilation slits, you are not going to have anything that looks like damp off outdoors where nothing is sterile anyway.

Karen, I was thinking about mimicking the Miracle Grow formulation. They have fertilization pellets in their mix. Don't they?

You guys keep telling me to wait to fertilize until after I transplant plants into the ground but I may just keep them potted. And don't I need to fertilizer regardless of whether they're still in pots when they finish off their cotyledons? They only have that embryonic nutrient store for just so long, don't they?

I've never had this much trouble with fertilizer when it comes to non-wintersown seedlings.

I DID have adequate drainage holes and ventilation slits. I said as much in that original post.

I'm not sure about the MG. I used to use it but don't remember seeing big pellets that look like Osmocote in MG. Anyone else?

I've not had much experience with indoor seed starting. But this year I bought a few lights and started select seeds under lights inside. I don't remember feeding them before transplant, either. If I did, it would have been with very dilute fish fert after they had a few true leaves. They did great despite my benign neglect.

I really think you are overemphasizing the necessity for artificial food. Remember your basic science: photosynthesis. Once the seedling starts producing true leaves, those absorb light and use it to produce the sugar the plant needs for energy. Once the food in the cotyledon is depleted, those seed leaves wither away and fall off.

When it comes to feeding, no one feeds the trees in forests. They complete their entire life cycle, some trees lasting centuries, with no intervention for humans. Their help comes from sunlight (often indirect in a forest) and a little compost with happens naturally.

Maybe others do things differently. I hope more folks will chime in here.

Karen

You will have a hard time trying to mimic the fertilizer in miracle grow potting mix by using Osmocote.

Osmocote that I have seen is a 19-6-12 ratio fertilizer.

Miracle grow potting mix a potting mix made up of Canadian Sphagnum peat moss, composted soft wood bark and a fertilizer time released ration of
0.21-0.07-0,14.
The potting mix is well blended and the fertilizer is well mixed into the soil so that when used, the proportions of fertilizer are blended enough to be equaled out with every scoop.

Since you had so many problems with WS last year, why not just go ahead and used Miracle grow potting mix, or promix or do some containers with miracle grow potting mix and some with pro mix and see which you like better and which gives you better results.

And using old seeds, is not going to give you the best results whether you WS or start your seeds under lights.

Use new commercial seeds or go to the seed exchange forum and trade for seeds or respond to the many, many offers for free seeds for postage.

Fran

Bump. Hoping for more input. Has anyone tried WSing with coir and/or osmocote?

Fran, does Miracle Grow mix have visible pellets of fert in it? I don't remember seeing them.

Does everyone fertilize WSown containers while they're just starting in their jugs? I'm I the only lazy slob who doesn't do it?

Karen

I don't fertilize anything until it's planted out, and sometimes not even then. If it's going into a container, I may give it a half strength mix of liquid miracle grow (or something similar) a week or more after planting them in the container. It all depends on the soil I use and whether it's new, old, or contains fertilizer.

In the ground, I have enough compost that fertilizer doesn't do much to help or hinder. So I ignore them as best I can.

I used several kinds of soil this winter. Light and fluffy potting mixes gave me the best success regardless of the brand and whether or not it had fertilizer in it. The heavier soils tended to stunt the growth of seedlings and made planting out difficult as it fell apart. This year, I plan to use the potting mixes exclusively.

Karen, coir used much the same as peat moss but has Ph closer to neutral....so may be a key component of some of the mixes but I wouldn't sow/plant in either straight peat or straight coir, I'd use it as an 'ingredient' in the 'recipe'.

There is no coir, no fertilizers in the mix I do use, and it's one our local garden center mixes and bags for us here. Light, fluffy, doesn't compact and seems to do a decent job of retaining moisture - not that moisture retention is an issue for me in winter outdoors :)

I give seedlings about a 1/4 strength liquid fertilizer on no particular schedule, timing it to their growth (after first true leaves) and the weather (how stable our Spring has been). I'll move up to approx 1/2 strength fertilizer for those things staying in pots, but I never fertilize anything once in the ground, I depend on compost there. Exception is roses, those I do occasionally fertilize in my clay based, high in organic content, acidic soils. If I had sandy lean soils, my habits might have to change.

Ms Minnamouse,

I'm very confused by the posts I have seen from you.

You keep saying that you have either had damp off with just about all your seedlings or very poor germination with this years WS efforts.

We have tried to figure out why you have damp off, if indeed, that is what is going on with your seedlings.

Those of us that have been WS for quite a few years, including myself, have told you what we use for soil and what the success rate is with the soil and seeds that we use for WS.

So my question is why are you making things far more complicated for yourself in attempts to mix your own soil to use for WS or attempting to use a product and try to equal it to miracle grow potting mix?

Wouldn't the best thing to do be to use what was suggested by those of us with lots and lots of experience like myself?
I have 6 years of WS experience, have used nothing but miracle grow potting mix, except for the first 50 containers and they where duds because of the soil I used?

Why make things far more difficult and complicated for yourself? Go with the tried and true, either miracle grow potting mix or promix if you can get it.

Use fresh seeds that you've traded for or gotten from BEAP offers on the seed exchange or fresh commercial bought seeds.
Use containers that are at minimum, 3-4 inches deep, give good drainage and air holes and fill with the soil that has proven to be the best to use.

WS is supposed to be cheap, easy and fun. It's not supposed to be complicated, and tedious.

Try it the way those of us with experience have done it and you will see the results that the rest of us also see and experience.

Karen, I seem to recall seeing some pellets in the Miracle grow potting mix that where a creamy, whitish color but to be honest, I don't really examine the soil to see what is in it.

When I WS, I'm doing between 50 to 100 containers at a time and I just fill the containers that are ready to use, wet the soil, sow the seeds and out they go.

In the spring, I'm filling many container pots with the soil and planting the seedlings in the pots.

If it ever stops raining, I will go outside and take a look at an open bag and see what I see.

Fran

Fran,

I hardly think that doing about 5 test containers with coir is sabotaging myself. Especially since I'm already purchasing over 50 packages of seed and I've just started shopping.

And what is wrong with using up my old seed along with sowing the new seed I'm buying??

I already said that I don't have anything but old seed to trade so I don't want to be passing that off to anyone, so I don't have much to trade. And in regard to BEAP (bubble envelope and postage?) offers, I'm not too comfortable with asking for handouts and to be frank and hopefully not to be rude, but I'm not seeing seed that I'd like to try.

I'm trying to stick to native seed and ones that I don't already have plants of.

But I am appreciative of everyone's advice and encouragement.

Karen - I don't fertilize anything. We do, however, compost (on a grand scale of course), augment the soil as needed, and veggies get grown in containers filled with compost and a bit of perlite.

In our flower garden the soil ranges from very lean to somewhat rich depending on where you are. I sort of plant out with that in mind, and occasional relocate plants that act like they need richer or leaner (or drier, sunnier, puffier) soil.

I've got a rather negative attitude about commercial fertilizers and a strong bias against juicing up my plants and turning them into nitrogen junkies. Best to save that particular rant for a thread that's actually about that topic though! :)

More on track with the original topic, Minnamouse, if you had all that trouble with damping off you might really want to consider a good commercial blend. The reason I say that is because they are mixed to provide an appropriate level of moisture retention and trying to get that with your own mix could be a real challenge.

I like Promix and Sunshine mix best and personally dislike Miracle Gro. Part of that is probably due to regional growing condition bias. Miracle Gro dries out way too fast for me here while the other two stay at just the most perfect moisture level for much longer times.

I do think that Miracle Gro may have an advantage for people growing in wetter conditions. The same features that hurt germination rates for me and made planting out challenging would probably have been advantages in growing regions that got a lot of rain this year.

If you are still working at getting good results with WSing, I'd make ProMix a first choice in areas where you usually don't have muddy gardens and Miracle Gro potting mix a first choice in areas where mud in the garden is common. (Sunshine mix is less readily available and more pricey.)

I'd hold off on using home mixed mixes for anything but seeds you have in huge abundance where won't be upset if they don't grow. That's actually what we do - I use our home grown container mix for things like zinnias where I have many giant bags of seed available. When you have a load of surplus seed you can live with a potting mix that wicks water in a less than perfect way or that might crumble or break apart when you try to transplant hunks of seedlings.

Lynda